Electrical Certificate

fellow forum members:-

There are an awful lot of Debtors, some owing thousands of euros.... Dont forget, indirectly, they are costing US money.  Some of them have not paid for more than a year.
I see one name on the list, that I know the owner is renting out the apartment so thus gaining an income.
It seems very difficult to get these owners to pay for facilities onsite that we as co-owners pay for.

A suggestion to discuss at the EGM next week, for possible action.

When the new security barrier is finally operational.... can we ask AEA (and the security guards) NOT  to reprogram any zappers belonging to  anyone still on the debtors list?.

AEA know who these debtors are. They can send a letter and email to them all , warning them that access via the barrier will not be given unless payment is made.

Thus they can not easily get access to DV facilities.  We are not preventing access to their paid for apartments. Just no access to raising the barrier which we, as owners have paid for - and they have not paid for.


Is this a practical  suggestion?  Is it 'legal' ?


Any other practical suggestions ?

I am one of the names on debtors list altough I have made regular payments by direct debit the whole period since I completed and as far as I am aware up to date. I have written to AEA regarding this, but so far no answer. If I were to go to Duquesa Village with my zapper and be told I could not get it reprogrammed because of this, I would be most annoyed and upset.

What I would like to know is exactly what action is AEA taking against debtors?  I recall at last year's AGM we agreed that non-payers would be given notice of penalty (10%) and/or legal action being taken against them after a period of non-payment.

Now, if AEA cannot even get the list of debtors correct, what chance do we have of them actually taking action against anyone who hasn't paid - AEA aren't even sure who the debtors are, it would appear!

And with RyF probably being one of the biggest debtors, I don't think barring them access to the facilities is going to inconvenience them any!

I think the first thing we must do is clarify what action AEA have taken/are taking against debtors and ensure that they do actually carry out what we voted for and impose the 10% penalty and take legal action if necessary - RyF included.

This message was last edited by Pitby on 9/12/2008.

I agree, the debtors list needs to be cleansed properly of owners who have paid and are being unfairly viewed by fellow owners. THEN the proper list of debtors does need to be chased into paying or face legal action.

It doesnt appear to me that AEA/RyF have either the will or capability to do this efficiently.

we could in theory pass a resolution at the EGM to 
1. make it against the community rules to let an apartment in DV if there is a community charge debt on it.
2. paste a notice outside all debtor's apartments to say that anyone occupying this apartment is not allowed to use the facilities ie the pool areas.

but they would be difficult to police and enforce.

I think what the debtors do not understand is that it costs a lot of money to run a development to make it look good, tidy and looked after. They really are shooting themselves in the foot, after all it is their investment too. AEA really has to get the debtors list in order, up to date and correct and chase people who have not paid up.

I'm not sure that, legally, we would be able to stop anybody using the facilities.  Our community fees pay for cleaning, landscaping, the lifts, pools, etc. - are we going to be able to stop someone using the pathways and/or stairwells/lifts to get to their apartment, etc., etc.?

The most effective way, I believe, is to enforce at least a 10% penalty if later than one month in arrears and then 20% if later than two months and then, possibly, legal recourse through the courts.

Although reading on this thread www.eyeonspain.com/Secure/ForumPostsDesc.aspx there are some good tips!  How about, for one, cutting off their satellite signal?  That way, no TV/Sky, and for those renting a double blow if they can't provide that for their tenants!!  And a good point here also about putting up glass fronted notice boards by each car park entrance, listing all debtors, how much they are in arrears, action taken, etc. (see link for Promedia's post in April).

Most important thing is to actually get AEA to take action - because at the moment it is not clear whether they have done anything at all!




This message was last edited by Pitby on 9/12/2008.

It is illegal to cut off any utility in Spain unless you are the utility company itself. OK so we cut off satellite and there will be a cost attached to this and a cost to reconnect. Denying facilities is non starter. 

It may be possible to change the rules to put the demand on the person renting if the owners is in arrears, I don't know.

Getting the debtors list correct is a moving feast with a large number of apartments and every 3 months it will change. I will try and see Sandra before I go next week and see if anything can be done, we need to tackle the biggest debtors first and quickly, so I would major on this at the EGM.

I have to be back in the UK from Wednesday so will not be attending the EGM, can anyone proxy for me please? 

I did meet with Gerardo today to understand why RyF had not paid, I will write this up under a separate post, I have written up my meeting with him which I think is good news and I am just waiting for an email from him confirming something before I post the reply.

Jeff

I agree that cutting off water or electricity could be difficult but the provision of TV  could be questionned as a utility.  I am sure the community carru costs associated with communial TV , in fact it's AEA who are contacted if there is a tv problem because they are managing the service. 

Personally, I don't think the TV/satellite is a utility - it's something paid for by the community (signal maintenance, etc.).  You only need to look around some communities, to see satellite dishes on balconies, etc., to note those that do not have this facility.  In DV, like the burglar alarms, pools, lifts, etc., the TV satellite is something that is maintained by the community.

If cutting off a debtor's tv/satellite signal gets that owner to pay his community fees, then I think it's worthwhile considering - plus, it can be a community rule that the owner has to pay the costs involved should their satellite signals be disconnected for reasons pertaining to their non-payment of community fees!  I agree that you cannot disconnect utilities such as water and electricity.  This would be totally unacceptable, as they are not provided by the community.

Obviously, this will be rather superfluous when the owners involved are those that have had to complete but are trying to resell or RyF, who obviously won't be doing any tv watching at DV!

Edited to say:   Obviously, burglar alarms aren't maintained by the community, but were pre-installed by the developer and are utilised/maintained at the owners' expense!!  But you know what I mean!!!




This message was last edited by Pitby on 9/12/2008.

My comments won't solve the current situation in being able to collect the current outstanding debts, but a similar situation arose on a complex where a friend of mine has an apartment.

They introduced a discount system for anyone who paid their community fees by DD, or by an agreed date. Effectively this actually meant that those paying on time paid the correct fee to fund the requirements of the community, but for those paying late there was a legal penalty for doing so. Effectively a fine. 

Didn't completely solve the problem but did help in getting a far larger % of fees paid on time.

John

I am glad to have noticed a lot of people have read this thread I started.  
I just hope there are some real debtors amongst them who now feel ashamed enough to start paying up. However, unless there is an enforced penalty, then they have no incentive to do so.

I think the overwhelming concern appears to be that AEA are simply not doing their job in collecting our money. Or maintaining good lists and communicating with us.  (complaints about AEA seem to be common on lots of other threads in this forum as well)

I have no idea what we can do to ensure AEA improve their service to us.

Until they do, I suppose the rumour and gossip mill, will keep on turning.  Roll on the next time we are chatting round the pool on a barmy sunny afternoon.

I've thought about this myself and the "discount" for those paying by DD just wouldn't work at the moment.  There are many owners who are having problems with AEA's admin, even though they are paying by DD.  We chose not to pay by DD and transfer the funds each quarter - and haven't yet had a problem.  Although we see many here who are paying by DD and are listed with the debtors!

A system is only as good as those who are administering it and if AEA can't get the debtors' list correct - even with those paying by DD - then discounts/incentives just won't work.  Incentives are good if applied effectively - which at the moment AEA seem incapable of doing!

Again, AEA have to be badgered about this.

What an increasing number of Urbanisations now do is the following :

Lets say your Community Fee works out at €1000.

Add 25% to it, €250, making the Community Fee now €1250.

For Owners paying in time, eg 2 weeks (or whatever), they get a 20% discount, strangely enough €250, netting it back down to the original €1000.

That leaves late payers, deliberate or otherwise, stranded at the €1250 rate.

It's too good of an incentive to miss.

By the way, we too at Coto Real have the misfortune to have AEA as our management company - I find them very poor and disinterested, they don't reply to my emails, and their communication with Owners is totally non exsistant.  A classic example of how not to run a company and they would never get away with it anywhere else.