Jardins RULE BOOK finally released in SPANGLISH

Hi All,

Below is a thread started by Graham, Carlisle Family, back in November, no one else had any knowledge of this at the time or since.  This takes us back to,  How can a community of owners be established without the owners knowing about it? Also as has been said a few times on this thread, surely it is against the rules/law for them to change the rules without us being consulted and being able to cast votes?  The rules we have are the only ones that should be followed until we have had a meeting and as there are no rule changes on the agenda for the meeting this week, they can't be changed then either.  We have had no reply to any of our questions from RPM,  so it looks like being an interesting meeting on Friday.  Lets hope they have a good interpreter.  Don't forget anyone that wanted Martyn to take their proxy vote for Naranjos,  he will be going on Thursday.

Mike, I know the lights aren't the only subject we are concerned with, but does it mention lights at all in those rules?  We do have a copy from Terry but can't find anything about lights?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi All

Below is information I received today from my contact in Customer Services:

I would also like to inform you that recently the community of owners has been established, their office is in our Call Center on the Resort. Please visit them during your next stay and they will give you all relevant information on the community, as well as the key to your post box on the Resort.

The company who runs the community of owners is RESORT PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, telephone number +34 968 010 949. I hope this information is useful for you.

Is anybody aware of this?

Cheers

Graham

Hiya Martyn & June

It mentions on page 8 that the lights should be white in colour, you can choose what model you want as long as you respect the colour.

Not overly concerned about the lights. I'm more concerned about who has set the rules & what gives them the right to introduce said rules without the vote of the community. It looks to me that this rule book has just been made up from someone from RPM who has gone round the Jardines taking photos of what he thinks looks nice.

I think these 'rules' have been in existence for longer than we can establish. Back in Feb 2007 we were told the awnings had to be white and no visible SKY dishes, if that had been a 'rule' then I expect other things will have been. Possibly they are not anything for the community to decide rather they are set by PW for what they feel are the 'asthetics' of the resort. The lights are another matter because PW seemd to suggest we would all have theirs then changed their minds- we now know that decision was made prior to 12th August (thats when we snagged and were made aware of the lights issue) I suspect we cant change these things- especially as many people we dont know who dont use the forum will have these rules and purchased accordingly ( I agree the issue of the rule booklet seems a little haphazard though)

We have never received any rules and completed last October.  We've bought silver lights as we felt they were more contemporary.  Owners can't really be expected to stick to these rules if they have not received them.  Hopefully will find out more at meeting on Friday. 

Ok then.

When we all completed we should have received a copy of the 'General Articles of Association' dated May 2008.  This documents the community statute and rules and has to be shown by law to all buyers at the time of purchase. Article 9 of this document lists the 5 Prohibitions ( rules ) which in summary are

1. no signs/advertising can be put up on the property

2. No commercial artivity can be carried out in residential buildings

3. No annoying / unhealthy / harmful / illegal activity as allowed ( Hmm - How do smokers get on? )

4.No closing off of balconies, porches, terraces or any other open-air elements annexed to the property.  No modifications to the appearance, colour, coverings or general aesthetics to the front of the property.

5. No cloths lines or washing in general may be hung outside the buildings.

THESE ARE THE ONLY LEGAL RULES.  By law any changes to the articles of association require a majority vote at a homeowners meeting, as the lillte November rule book has not been voted on, cus there hasn't been a meeting it is not legal.  also by law only items on the agenda can be voted on so these rules cannot be brought in at this weeks meeting.   For me I believe that the nov booklet it attempting to clarify rule 4 above,  as under these rules the blocking in under the stairs and the area out the back where the washing machine is, that many owners have done, would be prohibited.   Does the outside light constitute a "modifications to the appearance"?  I would say not as PW obliously expected owners to fit such lights or they wouldn't have provided the wiring etc.    So for me, I'm taking the view that the Nov booklet is guidance only and not enforcable rules.  I have emailed RPM on this matter but as you might expect have not had a reply.

As to satellite dishes, if they are on upstairs roof terraces and not mounted on the front of the property I cannot see there is a problem.  Indeed at La Torre they have only forced the removal of dishes that were in communal areas ( such as the penthouse roofs ) which is against the rules ( Article 14 ).

Now the question on RPM.  In the 'General Articles of Association'  under the heading "Initial organisation of the association" it states "...the developer 'ALHAMA GOLF RESORT SL' shall assume the condition of chairmen, secretary and administrator of the association for a maximum term of 5 years from the date on which the deed of constitution of the grouped property complex is signed.   The said posts shall be carried out by whichever of its legal representatives........."   so we can assume PW have granted RPM as it's representatives.  The vote on the 20th is to re-elect them for the coming year.  At the moment I cannot see any other alternative, we need a professional group managing the complex.

One last point, all owners that are upto date with thier community fees can vote.  As PW own all the unsold properties, and assuming that they pay community fees on those properties, they probably have the biggest block vote as I cannot see 500+ owners turning up at the meeting!.

Phil

Phil

At last, a voice of sense and reason.

Well said, must be in the name.

Regards

Phil

We agree Phil- think rule four stating 'No modifications to the appearance, colour, coverings or general aesthetics to the front of the property.' is probably what all this 'white' has been based on. We wait to see.

I agree Phil they are the only rules I have ever known, which was told by my agent 2 years ago and written down in the 'General Articles of Association' dated May 2008'.

I was also told that the reason the apartments are all painted white is because, they had learnt by their mistakes on Mar Menor , as they are all coloured meant they faded quickly hence re painting them would mean they would have to be painted more often. 

'No modifications to the appearance, colour, coverings or general aesthetics to the front of the property.' could refer to this in some way.  Onlt a thought.

Hi All

From the research I have done It's normal for some basic rules & regulations to be laid down by the developer - these are the estatutos (statutes), and form part of what is essentially the master deed for the entire property. As I understand it, this document must be registered at the land registry in the same way as individual deeds, and any subsequent changes would have to be made through the correct legal channels (in front of a Notary) and registered accordingly. (This would be the rules we were given at completion dated May 2008).

It would seem that since the first meeting has not yet been held, changes could still be made, but only if they are properly registered with the Notary as above.

Once the community has been legally formed, such changes can only be made by a proper vote at a general meeting. So if the leaflet being distributed now dated November 08 hasn’t been before the Notary and properly registered then it has no validity.

The source of my information is from other experienced members on the general forum of EOS.

P.S.

It is also my understanding that all owners have to be informed of the meeting with minimum 6 days notice.

According to PW own document (being article 17 of the rule book dated May 08 we were given at completion) the ordinary meeting should take place in November or December. Only extraordinary meeting can be called at other times for which this meeting hasn’t been declared as such.

So if not properly called, should this meeting be taking place at all?

Regards

Phil

Is there another rule booklet for Naranjos?

This thread begs the question 'what is the point of issuing rules if the community can vote to change them?'  If owners have spent money adhering to these 'rules' and then changes are voted in who pays for the changes to owners properties? You cant have a system where rules can be changed every time there is a vote. If this is not a 'rule' book and these are is only guidelines then why is it issued as 'rules' - another translation misunderstanding?

Its difficult to believe that PW chose a management company that dont know how to set up the community rules

Hi Jan and Mike,

Spanish law allows for the statute, including rules etc,  of the community to be changed by a majority vote of the owners. 

What has happened it that a 'rule/guidelines/pretty picture' book seems to have been created in November by someone? and then issued to 'some' owners.

I thing the main gripes are that

1. Not everyone was informed / send a copy.

2. it imposes rules that were not a part of the original ( and legal ) articles of association.

3. It was not voted upon by the community of owners.

so, the feeling is that, regardless of if you agree with this new ''rule/guidelines/pretty picture' book  it should not be allowed as the law was not followed.

Something to bring up at the meeting in AOB?

I have asked RPM about this with no reply.

Phil

Yes I agree and it seems developers often have the guiding vote initially due to unsold properties. Hard to tell on CdA whats unsold or just unoccupied.

However I hold issue with the fact of sending out rules and the possiblility of people believing they are doing the right thing- then having the rules changed- could prove an expensive business.  Meanwhile it is good to see that some standards are expected and that the aim is to maintain those.

Hi

For those that are going to the meetings, you can if you wish, ask the administrator if the new rules that have appeared have been properly adopted, in the way described in my post lower down in this thread, whish was taken from the Horizontal Properties Act. If it hasn’t already been properly adopted then they can’t adopt them now the first meeting has started without it being approved by a community vote and this cannot be done at this meeting, as it isn’t an agenda item.

Phil

Jan & Mike

With regards to how many properties have sold I had an up to date list emailed to me of what is avaliable.

Excluding golf suites and Large Villas.

• Jardines = 137 units
• Isla = 28 units
• Penthouses = 75 units
• Los Naranjos & Jana villas = 189 units

With a total of 2600 properties there are 429 unsold making the total units sold on the resort about 85%, which I think is quite impressive in these times.

Dan

What happened at the meetings? is there anything worth reporting back, have they set a community fee for the jardines

I wait with  unbearable anticipation.

cheers Dakey

I have just received this update from my rep at the meeting -

Not long returned after a 5 hour marathon slanging match at the first Community meeting.  Very nonconstructive and not very well planned.  A summary of the main points being as follows: -

The Resort Management company appointed by Polaris is Resorts Property Management (RPM).  They reason for the meeting was for them to introduce themselves and give us a presentation about what they do, the role they play, the progress of the resort and FIRST stab budgets (and I stress the use of the word "budget").  Before we even got the first slide on screen they were getting laid into by both Spanish and British residents about various issues - as well as he fact no Polaris rep was present.  Basically, RPM manage the whole resort in terms of the following areas: -

Cleaning / Refuse collection / Looking after communal areas / lifts (in Penthouses) / irrigation / gardening / pest control / swimming pools / security / perimeter wall security & cameras / street lighting / post / TV infrastructure etc.  in other words, all the "communal" costs associated with the resort.  As a company they manage the contracted companies who collect the refuse, clean the pools etc. and work on our behalf to get the best price for highest quality service.

The main faux pas of the whole event was their failure to notify us of the agenda and purpose of the meeting.  Hence, when they tried to begin their presentation the heckling started.  The fist slide show was the do's and don'ts allowed in the facade of the properties.  We only got a small way through this presentation when anarchy broke out and the presentation was stopped.  Essentially, all we got was the following: -

 

• Only wooden fences are allowed (in brown) around ground floor properties at a max height of 120cm
• Pergola awnings must be white / beige and the joists only in white/beige and of metallic structure
• Persianas are allowed (in white) - these are the white shutter blinds
• Grills are allowed but only in white and on ground floor bathroom and back / front window
• No solid awnings are allowed

....then the chaos started....

The budgets were hastily put up and, unfortunately, they were annual figures and not for each Jardine.  When people started seeing the numbers of 3.8 million euros per annum they started questioning each line in the "budget" and why it was charged etc.  After much ado they came to the conclusion (NOT CONFIRMED) that monthly community fees would be as follows: -

2 beds - 85-100€ per month
3 beds - 100-130€ per month

Obviously as soon as 130€ figure was mentioned the atmosphere got a little heated... and then El Presidente rolled in, Jose Luis Hernandez (you know the one, on TV, "I'am the Prezident of Polariz World") - at least he could speak much better English in the translations that the reps from RPM. 

The schedule of payments for the community fees are as follows: -

March 2009 - (Jan/Feb/Mar 2009)
April 2009 - (Apr/May/Jun 2009)
July 2009 - (Jul/Aug/Sep 2009)
Oct 2009 - (Oct/Nov/Dec 2009)

And..... you'll love this!

May 2009 - (Jul/Aug 2008)
June 2009 - (Sep/Oct 2008)
Aug 2009 - (Nov/Dec 2008)

This delighted the baying crowd no-end and more raised voices and opinions were vented.  In fairness to Jose Luis, he held his ground, spoke politely and did not rise to the bait.  Essentially it was agreed that the meeting should not have been conducted in the way it was and that RPM/Polaris would do the following: -

 

• Email every property owner the presentation including what you are or aren't allowed
• Email the budgets to all
• Give us a per Jardine cost for community fees so that you can apply your percentage (in your deeds) to determine your exact amount.
• Give us all two dates to chose from to organise another,better informed and more productive meeting.

The next meeting will be to elect Presidents for each Jardine / Block and agree the other points going forward in terms of how, as a community, we can try and organise cheaper deals for telephony, TV services, cleaning and all the other things provided by RPM.  Also, we can vote to kick RPM out (which I personally think is suicide in the first instance as we have neither the time, contacts or resource to replace the upkeep of Condado in the short term). 

For me the main thing that RPM and the elected presidents need to do is to educate the property owners as to what is included in the budget as mandatory and what is not; and also explain why things are mandatory and what you get for it.  The example always goes back to the fact they are charging for use of the sports areas (3€ per hour for tennis, paddle ball etc.) and large amounts for TV services - we are being told that part of the reason we got the properties cheaper than other Polaris resorts is that things like TV infrastructure is not included int he price of the property, so we now have to pay going forward.  In my opinion this should be whether you want it (TV Services and other services) or not; but these are the things that need sensible adult conversations and not the slanging match that the meeting unfolded into today.
 

awalky

The second meeting for Naranjos was much shorter and better understood.  Lois Fernandez spoke first and explained everything.  Martyn said the jardines had gone away with the wrong idea about how much their back payments are.  2008 fees are 20 - 40 euros per month. I'm sure he said 80 - 110 for the 2 beds. The figures are higher than expected because there are less properties, next year will be better because Villa Janas and La Isla will be completed.

He also found out a few other things which I'm sure he will share with you when he gets back.  I don't want to go quoting things and maybe getting them wrong.

It is correct about them emailing everyone about the budgets and the next meeting, which will be a choice of 2 dates

How can we be charged for anything related to the Villa Jana and La Isla costs- because they aren't completed yet? Are Naranjos and Jardines to be charged for the whole resort due to the earlier than expected completions? Is this then to balance out as less expensive because more properties cover the costs? 

There is no community charge on unfinished properties, but once complete either PW or the new owners will have to start paying.

The community charge is to cover the cost of maintaining the communal facilities, so the more completed properties for the same amount of facilities the lower the change per property.

Hope that makes sense.

Phil

Good evening Awalky

Thank you for the info. Some of it quite funny but quite a lot not so.

We would have loved to have been present but having only just returned home and a week booked in March Ham couldnt get the time off. Having said that , your report seems to have covered everything so far

It was interesting to read that our spanish neibours were also " angry " particulaly as they are used to community set ups.

Hopefully we can all get to gether & get the  solutions we all so desperatly want.

I agree with you , that at the present time sacking the management group would be fool hardy at this present time.

Its bad enough driving on the oposite side of the road.without trying to run a community in a country thats noot your own as i`m sure there`s a list of law`s & bylaws that we are not even aware of yet

Jan & Ham