re meeting Tuesday 7th 11am in Cafe /Bar The Surgery

This is the letter circulating that is a part of documents being presented. I am gathering information and trying to understand what is happening , will share anything I get but I am unable to get into detailed discussion . Its further pressure to get costs down and glad to see recent comments on our e mails from RPM with a commitment to reduce by 25%

Dear Sirs

After the meeting of Condado de Alhama owners  which took place on the 20^th of February 2009 and having seen that this meeting did not come to a conclusion, due to the negative comments made by some of the owners irritated by the situation with Polaris World.  The way the meeting was called upon by you – Polaris World and the fact that the content of the meeting was not what was expected by the owners  led to a disorganized and unproductive meeting  and therefore we request:-

1.      That a new call for a “Junta” (meeting) of owners should be made so as to be able to take the decisions and put different levels of actions to be undertaken by the Community and the control being in the hands of the owners of Alhama Golf Resort.

2.      The owners called upon to be at the meeting within 20 days of receipt of this letter, should be well informed in advance one month beforehand and sent to the residents address that they gave to Polaris.

3.      As we did not have a chance to bring up the following points regarding the present situation we therefore are requesting to inform Condado de Alhama Golf Rresort and Polaris World:

3.1.1  To the Condado de Alhama Golf Resort & Polaris World Management

a.      Our total disagreement concerning the balance for the expenditure of the resorts, both those of the last term of 2008 as well as those in the forecast for 2009, as it clear that they are quite excessive  The resort was handed over whilst it was unfinished, there was not even vital elements to enable you to establish yourself and we therefore presume that there were excessive expenses due to premature deterioration, accidents, lack of organization and attention due to the permanent state of work that was going on and this has been continuing on since the owners have taken over their properties until today.

b.      Therefore we do not accept that the expenses of the last term of 2008 should extrapolate for the forecast of 2009 as the present maintenance situation is the totally different one and from what we understand there is a total lack of interest in offering the owner a fair quality/price relationship on behalf of the present management, there are excessive costs for maintenance, security and the market offers generally more comparable prices or offers.

c.       1. The present up keeping or maintenance of the resorts presents some deficiencies, such as , the lawns of the gardens and the pathways are not properly kept having weeds and yellow patches, although the watering seems to be sufficient and sometimes even in excess, watering taking place at the incorrect time when a later hour would be more beneficial for the plants and grass, furthermore in some areas the watering in excess transforms some areas in big ponds as for the plants sometimes they are deteriorating, or even pulled out. 

2.  The time table and  noise level made by some specific  equipment for the garden maintenance takes place at an hour are preventing people having a good rest.  The picking up of and cleaning of the grass cutter stays sometimes for large periods of time without being collected.

3.  Bad smell from the sewerage is reaching the homes and we were told that when the contract was passed on to the sub-contracted entity of the Town Hall, water department  (Urbaser, s.a.) they refused to take over due to some technical problems, we can only hope that this kind of problems finds an immediate solution as not only it is unpleasant but also harmful to our good health.

4.  There are excessive cuts of water, electricity, light and television.

5.  When it rains in some of the pass-ways water accumulates and the water grid is not functioning properly, either because its location is not adequate or else the inclination is wrong or poorly calculated, for example in Calle Albahaca  parking lot 1309, there is a huge lake  which is very inconvenient if you have to get out of your vehicle, the same thing is occurring on the external road when some areas the water is stagnating which might damage the wall surrounding the property which could be dangerous if it falls.

6.  Due to the excess of insects existing during the months of July 2008 to October 2008 we do hope that fumigation is being done correctly or adequately.

7.  The urban furniture (light poles and waste paper baskets) should be checked upon and properly maintained as in some cases they show signs of deterioration or look as if they are old due to some heavy work being done and this is not correct and not found in all areas of the residence.

8.  Having checked and confirmed that the sports facilities for the use of the owners and residents of Condado de Alhama  is generally exploited by Polaris World company we would like to have some explanation regarding what follows.

8.1  Such facilities should be  of exclusive use of Polaris owners or residents.  The fact that it is rented at 3 euros is totally against the logic of any private resorts, but it also might  be at the detriment of the community for the following reasons.

8.2  Security of the resort.  One could just tell security people come and play tennis or use the paddle facilities and therefore has access to the resident’s area which obviously could put at risk the security of the residents or the owners.

8.2.2. The deterioration of the facilities.  The continuous use by people who are neither owners or residents in the present circumstances makes us foresee a premature deterioration of sports facilities as it would prejudice the joint interest of residents and owners.

8.2.3.  The deterioration of the resort.  Free access to people who are not belonging to the resort might lead to an early deterioration of other areas of the resorts, as well as encourage or facilitate vandalism within the resort or incidents which might disturb owners and residents.

8.2.4.  It is mandatory to facilitate to the residents the maintenance services and securities telephone numbers so that in case of an emergency outside the working hours of the Call Centre they can be reached easily.   We should be given access to this immediately as we feel it was a grave error initially.

3.1.2 Residents. (a)  The waste containers  should have a colour code with specific indication as very often we see bags dropped near waste paper baskets or even in the street.  

(b)  There should be rules for pets as we often encounter animals without a leash including within the swimming pool area and we start seeing dogs excrement and urine patches in gardens and path ways.

(c )  Some vehicles are parked for long periods of say 12 – 14 hours on the roads

(d)  Specific definition of the re-decoration/upkeep of the walls, patios, upstairs terrace etc.  When there is an accumulation of items  which give a pathetic aspect to the resort.  The garden fence was mentioned during the meeting, should be of wood yet no specification regarding the colour was made and therefore we have all kinds of colour of wood, imitation of wood made in iron, some are white, some are wood and metal, and  are black.

(e) Rules regarding laundry should be established since it should not be above the external wall nor on the side of the garden as we have seen it at the present time.

(f)  Rules for the swimming pools.  We have seen people getting in there with glasses, having showers with soap or even swimming at night. There should be no boats/inflatable’s. Plastic drinking glasses only at the pool. 

(g) Rules regarding the use of sports facilities, types of adequate shoes to access them, as well as the use designated for that area.

(h) Cycling should be restricted to the outer road

 In the annex find the signatures of the owners.

Hoping to hear from you soon.           

Hi David

I haven't seen this email/letter?

It looks like there is going to be alot of meetings going on over this Easter.  Wish I booked a flight now for Easter!!

So anything you can gather up about this 2management company" that is good about saying "what should be done "  would be very interesting.

Who has put this forward?  Whilst I agree with most of it, I don't agree with everything - especially the cycling item.  One of the things I liked about resort was the supposed lack of cars, and the ability to cycle around the resort - I certainly wouldn't agree with bikes being restricted to the outer road!  When I am there I can let my son go off on his bike, and other than him having to be careful as he crosses the roads feel he can safely ride around.  I know this is just one small point, but it does mean that something like this document has to be looked at item by item, as there can be a misconception that people agree to the whole thing, just because the initial headlines look good.

Ted

Hi All,

I fell I have to say something on this matter.

Whilst I can only guess at your level of disappointment at the lack of facilities and community charges and frustrations in getting PW and the management company to provide what we have all paid into.

I appreciate that you have started meetings to get these problems sorted but feel that I have no voice I'm as yet to complete on Condado and cannot see how any decisions can be made until all residents have voted on what action to take.

I have to agree with Ted's point who in their right mind would want to stop people cycling in the resort.

This sort of thing smacks of peoples own agenda and not as a community spirited action to improve our lives in Spain.

We have spoken with PW on numerous occasions even speaking to UK companies selling for PW all have stated that all work will be completed eventually and as planned they have commitments to Jack Nicklaus company to complete golf courses.

I know they would say that but  we have to believe in the dream we all signed up to.

Just ask yourselves this question would you rather have these problems which will get sorted out or no place to go to in Spain.

I totally agree thing need to improve going by all your blogs but remember there are still alot of people to move out there yet who also want a voice in the community.

Hi Ted,

I completely agree.  Whilst I believe this group, whoever they are, are acting it what they believe are our best intentions, they are going about it the wrong way.  Regardless of intentions I do not beleve that they ( 5 people ) should be setting themselves up as an 'association of owners' and representing themselves to RPM and PW as such.   If an association is to be formed it should be done within the law and by legal vote. i.e it should be done formally by a vote of owners and the election of garden presidents.

So whilst I am happy(ish) for someone to talk to PW regarding getting the community fee sorted and reducing the running costs, I do not believe thay should be requesting or even mentioning rule changes as these can only be doing by a vote of owners at an official meeting. 

The fact that they have managed to get a meeting with D. JOSE LUIS HERNANDEZ DE ARCE is also slightly worrying as it implies that PW are taking them seriously and viewing them as an legitimate representation of the owners.

So for me, what I would like any 'association' to do is to help sort out getting a legal community set up i.e gather a list of owners, get each garden group taliking to each other and getting presidents elected so we can approch PW on a legitimate basis within the rules of community. 

Phil ( forever hopeful )

Totally agree with your comments there guys. While the letter Dringman includes in his post lists a number of the issues to be presented that are well and truly valid, there is no way any rules and regulations can be set in stone without full consent officially put in place by the democratic process that is required by law. I would be surprised if Polaris even acknowledged the document that is presented to them as it is asking for them to provide things that will cost money to themselves. Now I accept that the majority of those points are well thought out and documented and fully expect this to be the type of thing that would be presented by an association of owners eventually or in the immediate future RPM who are acting on our behalf. The very concept of our development is that it has an abundance of green spaces and for me, the appeal of cycling anywhere within the boundries of the resort was one of the major selling points. I can't think of anyone in their right mind proposing to put a restriction on this to the outer ring road.

I look forward to hearing/reading the feed-back that cascades from the meetings of the next two days.

Regards,

I totally agree with what you say guys.  I must admit I didn't see the item on cycling before.  The resort and especially the Jardines were sold with pictures of people cycling around the gardens?!   I don't know what you think but I wouldn't be suprised as these items were copied from another resort.

Hi All

I would like to know more about who this group are and hopefully after those that are able to go to the meeting in the surgery (bar) tomorrow we will, when they feed the information back to us.

I wouldn’t get too concerned about the content of the information David (dringman) has provided from this group.

Firstly the content is clearly a translation from a document presumably originally written in Spanish, so will have lost some of its clarity in being translated.

The document starts by saying that, control should put in the hands of the community and meetings should be arranged to achieve this.

The remainder of the document are the views and observations of this particular group and are in the main the views of many of us, with some small exceptions, but as this group have rightly stated the community should be running Condado and not PW & RPM without any consultation.

I am happy that any group is attempting to prevent PW & RPM running roughshod over us as if nothing is done to stop them, the decisions PW & RPM make NOW will affect us for years to come not just the immediate future. 

Phil

Has anyone got any news on the meeting this morning at 11am? 

Hi Jackie,

Do you think they're still there?  Can't believe no ones posted yet

Good evening

I was led to believe that the meeting was an all day thing.

If there was a meeting in the "surgery" this morning & if the details are to be written down on this site for those of us who could not attend. I would think thats a hell of a lot of typing for some one to do.

So lets give the group time to get the details out to us.

I know that the spanish have a much slower , therefore a greater lifestyle than us.

And  arnt we  constantly striving for that life style too

So chill people

I am sure David or his wife will have the details on this thread ASAP.

Hi Martyn & June

I reckon you're right !  They're are still in there and they've got a "lock-in"  and nobody is allowed in or out!!    LOL!

Poor  old Herbet.

They'll  all be snow blind by now,  and won't  be able to find their way out. 

LOL!  As long as they don't vote for Herbet to be President I don't mind!

Doh! Really wish I was out there now

Either this meeting didn't take place or the Internets down on Condado again. Although, Mick posted on here last night so it must be OK......Before anyone tells me to chill out and be patient,  it didn't take this long for info to get back about the community meetings.  June

Meeting Summary 06.04.2009

Met with Director of Security with the responsibility of security on all of the resorts.  RPM – Victoria.  Director of STV who provide gardening cleaning and bin collection. Someone responsible for the gardening and one from the bin collection.  An employee of the council who is also a Condado Owner provided valuable assistance.

Meeting with Administrators

Budget and Planning

·         Security and Protocol , access and control 2 gates 2 guards 24/07

·         Garden Revised plan of work and timetable/service levels

·         Cleaning and bin collections (not Wed) for revision – quote competitive – reduce cleaning cost – ring road.

·         Palm Trees.

From Administrators of RPM

The administrators are going to reduce their charges by 72,000 euros per year – availability in the office would be reduced from five days to 2 days a week.

The appointed persons (the President, Secretary and the Treasurer) can view the accounts at the bank – Banco Sabadell,  looking to get guarantees for the community payments that we would make.  

To review the monthly quote from the months of 2008 – from the moment of signng the Escritura – January 2009 confirmed and a share from May 2009 onwards.  We have asked the administration if they can that they change the way that things are calculated – shared equally throughout the Jardines, i.e. more evenly. Trying to that is a legal issue as this is already written in our deeds.

Polaris

 Foro

Final completion by the end of July – facilities should be an Arosceria (a Spanish rice restaurant), and Italian restaurant, supermarket, Irish Pub the potential for 8,000 square metres, but all these properties will only use 3,000 square metres – obviously other potential there.  Where the existing supermarket is the bar will stay where it is and the supermarket will turn into gym – no date is given for this or cost.

Medical facilities at Le Foro – medical room to see DR/GP or nurse. 

There will be a playground being built next to the Foro – no idea of size, or manned, whether payment will be required. 

There is to be public access to  Foro and the Sports facilities. 

Access to policies in relation to the resort  – to review them

Driving range – open by September 2009.

TELECOM

Expected to be ready/installed by May, they are waiting for cables from Russia – no idea when they will arrive.

Led to believe that 18 holes are going to be available by December 2009, at that time there will be a temporary golf shop and changing rooms etc.

Drains/Sewerage

Problems with these pipes, installed pipes going up, still waiting sign off by Alhama council for Urbwasser to take over.  Guarantee by Polaris President that this will be resolved, this guarantee runs out in two months – need to keep on top, to ensure work carried out.

Freshwater system

Leaks in water system.  Costing extra, no idea where leaks are, no meters installed – where they would be installed.  This is a matter of urgency and needs to be resolved. 

Chlorinated Water tanks - Missing two tanks,  which is used to water the gardens – quality of water?

Lighting and Electric

Raised issue with President – but have raised issue with meters in Jardines 11,12 and 13.  Raised the issue the lighting not on.  Also the issue the lighting on the ring road, the reason why the outer ring road is included in our budget is because that this was the original agreement with council and Polaris when the planning application was made.  We are not paying for the lighting itself, but we would have to pay for the maintenance and replacement of bulbs.  Also all the gardening and watering any repairs to the roads are the responsibility of the community.  Polaris have committed up to 2015 on the contracts for cleaning, refuse collection and gardening.

To Summarise

The major problems being sewerage, electricity and water – contact the utility companies – i.e. a letter, copies to Polaris and RPM – all being clearly documented.  None of these were signed off as being working correctly. Working to reduce costs that will reduce monthly fees. This is being reviewed. Contractors aware that payments are being withheld until a more reasonable budget set and that the owners pay not Polaris who they made contract with.

All these meetings where in Spanish and we have obtained the best perspective possible to provide you with information to keep you informed, so we can only make a summary.

The end objective is to reduce fees without a major effect on services.   

The meeting on Monday  was all day 9 to 9   and on Tuesday tried to provide a summary to inform English speakers. Those at meeting( thanks to those who turned up) can see how pasionate the Spanish Owners are about these issues. I am grateful that someone has taken this up. I will publish the fee reductions obtained when I get e mail . I have it on hard copy but do not have internet signal  strong enough. If I scan and e mail to those on my e mail list maybe someone could put it on EOS. Cycling I am afraid is a minor worry when the potential of hundreds of thousands of euros would have to be found to sort out drains. At least Polaris are now aware we know about these issues before the guarantee ran out. Cycling in the actual gardens is a concern for those with mobility ptoblems  as there is limited space  Riding over grass causes expense to us all when repairs are needed, so please  be aware there is always another point of view.  Anyway if we get hung up on details the bigger problems are left . Alhama Council have offered a sports facility for us to have our meeting so we can approve the comunidad officials.

We have tried  our best to keep you all informed and as you appreciate when this is all in Spanish its not easy. We have had help from Jenni an interpretor but like us all she has a living to earn and taking time out costs us money.  Some aims have been achieved ie a reduction in fees  with further reduction in pipeline. I can assure you that each service provider was called to reduce costs and despite protests that they had a contract with Polaris , they where reminded who is actually paying the bill and if they didn't negotiate then payment would be in doubt.  Security has already been tightned up and our concerns about Public access have been noted with protocols in place. We will get further when we have officials in place and have called one meeting rather thsn individual garden meetings as RPM planned. 

There are some who want to disagree with leglislation and change the law. This has been examined and lawyers would want a hefty deposit from everyone if we want to make this to take this to law. Is it not better to achieve your aims by negotiation first?. If we ever had to go to law then at least we have taken reasonable steps to achieve our aims first.  If you want to argue about details then excercise your democratic rights at the appropriate time.

David

Thanks David for publishing this,

I would still love to know who these people are that are supposedly representing us without authorization from our selves ??????

They seem to have taken it upon themselves to run the resort.

I'm thankful that they are doing it but want to know who they are. Perhaps you can enlighten us David.

Few initial points after my first read.

Why should it cost us if the sewers & water aren't up to spec. Surely this is a Polaris issue and they should refuse to pay.

Secondly, not happy about letting Joe Public into the resort to use the Foro & Sports Facilities, anyone could be driving round looking for things to pinch. Polaris where supposed to be building the Oasis and sports facilities at the North end of the sight outside the resort for the local people of Alhama.

Will now have a second read & digest a bit more.

Thank you so much for this David,  will read it properly later but from what I have took in so far, thanks have to go to all that took part. It's people like this that will help make Condado the great place we all know it can be.  Thanks again

Thanks David

As I mentioned in previous thread an all day meeting spews out a lot of  info.

Wasnt aware every thing would be in Spanish only, which takes the translation of it ( time wise ) even longer

So thanks again David & your team of typist & translator  for the lengthy but very informative thread

As I  had said chill

.I knew David wouldnt let us down & keep us waiting in the dark for any longer than time would allow.

Jan & Ham

Hi David

Thanks for the information, as ever poses more questions than answers but its good to know people are standing together to achieve a reasonable outcome. Were you able to find out anything about the action group that had the meeting on the 6^th?

Thank again to all for giving your time.

Phil