re meeting Tuesday 7th 11am in Cafe /Bar The Surgery

Many thanks David, this is good work, and it is good to hear that these people are working for our benefit - but who are they?  I still have loads of questions, but am not going to burden you with them, but one area I would like to understand more, if you know, is re the external road.  Polaris are saying that the community should maintain it, yet they are running their lorries around it day in day out - doesn't seem quite right - they also want non-residents to be able to freely use it ?? I know that in the deeds/rules it states that golfers must have access, but don't recall seeing that for anyone else.

On the cycling point, as I raised it first, again thanks - I fully agree that bikes should be kept off the grass - but as you say this is a minor point - as long as it doesn't just get accepted with the bulk of the more important issues it can wait for later discussion.

Again many thanks for all of the work both to this group and you.

Ted

"I would still love to know who these people are that are supposedly representing us without authorization from our selves ??????

They seem to have taken it upon themselves to run the resort.

I'm thankful that they are doing it but want to know who they are. Perhaps you can enlighten us David."

Reply

Just owners like all of us , however people with experience in the way comunidads are formed and have a little more knowledge about what is going on than you or i could ever hope to find out. If the result is lower fees and better security is this not a positive thing?

As for running the resort !!  hardly , If only someone was running the resort! .  if you want to discuss it with me when you are over I am on J1161 and I will point out some home truths, like breakins and attemped breakins, safe thats being tampered with when someone has left their key for the electricity to be installed. Someone using some elses washing machine.Grass being cut to death .Being left in total darkness with no garden and street lights. and one person with no apartment electricity when holiday makers on the way.

Thanks to everyone else for your support . its been a hard few weeks just getting some understanding of the loads of work and information these guys have  been dealing with whilst doing their own jobs. Anyway and I have other things to attend to and will keep you posted if thats what you want. Glady let someone else do it if they want.

Thanks David for your time to put this on EOS.

Like all new projects there is always teething problems, and its good to know that there are people out there fighting for our corner.  Its the not knowing that causes more problems, so thanks to everybody on the Condado for doing all this work and for keeping us informed.  Well done David.

I'm grateful for the time and effort you've gone to David and to these people who are doing all the leg work, As you quite rightly say I wouldn't have a clue where to start in organizing all of this.

But as I say, I  like a lot of people are curious to find out who they are. Names and plot numbers etc, all we have had is a few emails from this association.

Keep up the good work

David,

Thank's very much for your feed-back and the hard work that went with that to get it publicised so quickly. I think I speak for the majority of us away from the 'coal face' when I say we appreciate the efforts put in by the group of people, regardless of their identities, who have taken up the mantle and tackled things head-on at the first opportunity. We know enough to know that they are residents/owners on the same development we belong to and surely have our common interests at heart. Initial reading of the feed-back reassures me that all of the real important issues are being highlighted in the priority they should be and the relevant parties are being given deadlines for answers/action.

On the issue of major utilities, whenever a construction company is contracted to provide a product, all aspects of that should be handed over in a fully operable, habitable state. In the case of the water supply with all the leaks, there is no way this service can be handed over in this state to the owners. The system should be complete, tested and commissioned for a certain period of time to prove effective operation before it is handed over to the next group for ownership. This is normal construction practice throughout the world. When I personally snagged my property, the ultimate goal was to have everything working and fit for purpose and ensure the standard of finishing was to the required standard and in the main I think the majority was. I see the rest of the communal shared facilities/services being no different - everything should be delivered to an acceptable fit for purpose standard. Several of the issues raised in the meeting are demanding just that.

I am concerned about the length of term contacts that Polaris have agreed to 'on our behalf' and fear these would be an open invatation for exploitation and over-charging. But as David notes, the contractors have been given the message loud and clear - look at your charges and don't think we are just going to sit there with blinkers on and accept any 'monopoly money' invoices you may throw at us at the time of the annual accounts.

I think we are fortunate that so many Spaniards have shown an interest and bought into Condado. This will clearly improve our chances of securing efficient value for money over the coming years than if we in one of the predominantly Brit' based urbanisations.

Looking forward to arriving at the week-end.

Regards,

David,

thanks for all your hard work and information and sharing it with all of us on EOS.

Without people like you and the others who attended the meeting I for one wouldn't have a clue about what is going on at Condado.  From what I read, the fact that they are looking to reduce the community fees is great news and I'm having some residents working on our behalf, even if we don't know them, is fine by me.

Regards

Quote from Billbo -

On the issue of major utilities, whenever a construction company is contracted to provide a product, all aspects of that should be handed over in a fully operable, habitable state. In the case of the water supply with all the leaks, there is no way this service can be handed over in this state to the owners. The system should be complete, tested and commissioned for a certain period of time to prove effective operation before it is handed over to the next group for ownership. This is normal construction practice throughout the world.

Billbo

Throughout our world, maybe - unfortunately, Polaris World is on a different planet to the rest of the construction industry, and you'll find that they make up their own rules and standards as they go along!

There was a similar problem with water leaks at La Torre last year. Surprise, surprise, PW hadn't installed any stop cocks etc, so whenever they had to repair a leak on the resort, the whole place lost its water suppy until the leak was fixed. Eventually, the community of owners got cheesed off with the situation, and paid out of community funds to have stop valves installed at strategic points around the resort so that it would be easier to isolate leaks in the future. I'll bet we end up doing much the same at Condado.

PB 

Whoever Dringman is we salute you.  Browsing through a Polaris World 'book' whilst cleaning the spare bedroom.  Two pages give PW Guarantees.  They guarantee your money from start to finish.  Guarantee  you will be fully informed on how the construction is going that may affect your investment - this never happened once to us.

Guarantee the building work - PW Desarrollo, their construction company, is in charge of executing and managing the building of our homes - to the highest quality standards and with the most rigorous checks and methods.  What's more a team of external auditors supervise the quality processes.  From design to completion every details of every element of PW resorts has been painstakingly taken care of.  Each house, each street, each garden.  

I was wondering whether this only applies to the outward appearance and not what is going on underground with the leaks.  I wonder if Jack Nicklaus knows this as apparently according to PW he has become involved in the PW project, lending his image on a European level. 

Petercbeck we totally agree with you PW are on another planet completely.  On a more lighter note do you think the spanish are trying to get us Brits back for thrashing them and making them totally bankrupt 300 years ago with Old Queen Bess.  Apparently (according to the History Channel) they have never really recovered and here we are invading them by stealth.

Jeremy and Jane Price - well Jane really Jeremy is watching Arsenal TV

Hi Peter & Pam,

I am aware that our 'pre-decessors' had their problems on all of the earlier Polaris resorts and in fact still are to a certain degree. I used to follow a lot of the threads on the La Torre owners forum as far back as a couple of years ago soon after commiting to Condado and wondering what the hell I had done. One thing I will say is slightly different here is the amount of time it took to get a collective group of representatives organised at La Torre and actually be able to present the problems to Polaris from a position of unity was, from memory, well over a year. Lot's of their early protestations were on an individual basis via e-mail or by personal appearance at the sales office. This made it much easier for Polaris to fob these off until they wore the individuals down and a prolonged period had passed where they could argue that the normal guarantee period for such things had passed by the time they formed an association.

Here, we are presenting them with a catalogue of all the issues relatively soon after first habitation cert's have been issued and we certainly need to be accepting nothing less than a fully functioning, fit for purpose infrastructure. We are talking one of the major construction companies in Spain here (Dessarrollo/Dragados) who are certainly not a third world-two bit outfit operating from a back streeet lock-up. They will be more than familiar with handover procedures and only the naivety of unsuspecting 'Joe public' who can't be expected to understand all the rules & regs that apply, particularly in Spanish, would allow them to paper over the cracks so to speak. This is where our Spanish neighbours put us in a much stronger position on this resort in my opinion.

Now we all expect teething problems and sometimes things will not be as perfect as you would like, but major issues like mains water leaks under the ground and drainage pipework falling in the wrong direction - sorry, you get them sorted and I;m pretty sure any legal system in Europe would hold them to account there. They will only get away with what they are allowed to.

Regards,

As i have stated on this thread before

Polaris would get us fixed into long term expensive contracts..............why?

What is the benefit for them to sign on the dotted line expecting the community to pay enormous sums of money for services that should not cost remotely close to what we have been quoted?

excuse me for being cynical, but i have no doubt that polaris have a vested interest in the rest of us paying over the top charges, probably to cover the cost of there unsold property. But as hard as we may try i think, we may be over the barrel when it comes to re-negotiating with the contractors as they have signed contracts which i am sure are legally binding

RPM expect to geta 25% reduction in costs, this still leaves us 25% above the the expected costs that we were all quoted, And strangely enough polaris still have about 25% of the built properties still to sell.

All i can say is something does not smell right

mark...............p.s i cant find my last post?

Hi David

Big thank you to all of you for all your efforts on Monday.Appreciated you posting outcome so quickly on Forum and I'm sure everyone feels a bit better that it looks like Community fees will reduce and that other concerns were brought to the attention of RPM and Polaris.

Think you are absolutely right re negotiation with companies doing gardening, cleaning etc.Its all very well to have Lawyers involved but as we all know they are not cheap and probably would charge hefty fee for even looking to see if anything could be done.My personal view is that Polaris are not stupid and will have watertight agreements in place.In the current economic climate there is no doubt that all of these Companies will want to have their bills paid on time so they will have to participate in some negotiations to review costs. 

I'm pleased that Security has been tightened up.Few weeks ago when we were out, loads of people were playing paddle.I'm positive that they were not Residents so was concerned as to how they managed to get past Security Gate when few months ago they wouldn't let our Electrician in.You are right in that these kind of things will be addressed when Community is up and running and the sooner the better.

I'm sure that both RPM and Polaris would have been surprised that so many of us had been in touch through the Forum and were able to voice our concerns as a group quickly.Think this is probably where La Torre residents slipped up by taking too long as a group to challenge them.

Thanks again David for all your time and effort.Really appreciated.

Lyn

Hi All,

Thanks again to David for all his work on our behalf but, can I ask David,  you say the group that met on the 6th are residents/owners?

I think people just want to be able to put names to faces, and it would be nice to know who they are so that we can acknowledge them on site?  Also, is this group aware of the other group?  Sounds a bit like lost doesn't it?  I'm only asking because I just wondered, are they working side by side, because surely the good that one group do  could  get undone with what the others do?

Thank you to all that are acting in the best interest of owners on Condado.   June

Hi All

Now thanks in no small way to our Spanish friends and neighbours the pressure is starting to be put on PW and RPM to get thing sorted. This is the beginning not the end of the struggle with them to do their jobs properly. I agree with June (cus) in that the different fractions on cda should come together so we can move forward as one until the proper community associations have been established, for which we should do all we can to encourage this to happen sooner rather than later.

Just to clarify things for myself, am I correct that David (dringman) isn’t a member of asociacion Condado de alhama the group that had the meeting on the 6^th but he is reporting to all, the information given by this group at the briefing on the 7^th in the bar at cda for which we are all grateful. I ask this just so we have no misunderstanding.

Phil

i have said all along that the spanish residents will look after all our interests on condado and from what david said then this looks like coming true.they will be your best friends so trust them and dont worry.they have all our interests at heart.well done david on a good report.

Well said George.

They may well not share your views on every small detail, but as they will deal with the major issues which need dealing with. Without this meeting it appears the PW guarantee re the drains / water would have quietly run out and it would then be our responsibility....without us even knowing, so well done David and all .

For the smaller issues we will be able to elect El President and I believe , once that has been done, that is the time to deal with the peripheral issues of lights, cycles , TV's etc.

It does however beg the question what exactly are RPM doing for their money? As far as I am concerned it is they who should have found this information out and dealt with it, yet they did not .Therefore if the meeting was not held, rather than saving us money ( quote " aim to reduce by 25%" ) we would have been contributing more!  Similarly they did nothing on the external roads/lights , and they certainly not been communicating re anything else. I appreciate that we have little immediate choice, but I for one have absolutely no confidence in them, particularly when I am informed that they made little contribution to the meeting on Monday.

Leyton

my thoughts exactly leyton

let the spanish deal with the major issues and then our own jardin rep can sort out the smaller issues.

rpm should go and the sooner the better .i am sure the spanish feel the same way and will be supporting them should they wish to appoint one of their own to be our new leader.victoria can disappear without trace as far as im concerned.never answered one of my emails and hasnt lifted a finger in our interests.bye bye vicky.

Look at the facts folks,

RPM appointed by Polaris to manage the resort and it's finances for the benefit of the owners.................. and what have we heard from them over the (6 months ?) duration they have been in the chair - zilch. Call me cynical, bit I can't help thinking this is a nice cosy little collaboration where they would quietly sit by while the major issues are played down until the time of the contractual guarantee periods has elapsed. I have got to wonder if any of us would have heard anything at all yet if it was't for the 'leads' provided by contributors to this forum. Let's get an association of our own together ASAP. We are lucky in the fact that we have full-time residents with the benefit of  the Spanish language to boot who appear more than willing to work alongside the British and other nationalities owners for the common good of all residents. I am looking forward to getting out there this week-end and speaking to those involved in the actions that have been taken so far.

Regards,

Hi

I have had an apartment in Jardines 2 since last July. Not once have I been informed of any meetings taking place involving residents. I've written three emails to RPM complaining about the lack of pathway lighting in our garden and have not received a single reply. I pointed out that on my last visit about a month ago some 54 pathway lightrs were not working in Jardines 2!However, they did finally send me information on my community charge.

What exactly is going on? Shouldn't all owners be told about meetings and asked for their views? And shouldn't RPM - as the management company - at least reply to our emails?

yes jim

its all cloak and dagger from RPM, i too have also tried various quests