The spring 2009 EGM

Max please do me a favour. Pop round the corner and do a quick count of those plants. I think you may have grossly underestimated the quantity.

Hi all

As already stated earlier I did not find any reasons so far to question the costs of our community . But I did not find the previous posts realistic.

I do not feel the need to discuss this any further. But it is a good example that the roses we all contribute with on EOS do not always smell the way they seem to do.  We all post our personal opinion and some facts might often be lost.

Happy easter to everybody

Grethe

 Hi David,

Will do when I have the time. When your parents-in-law are already on the plane to visit , you suddenly realize that getting your house in order is a more pressing issue :)

Happy easter to all,

Max 

Max clearly cannot tolerate anyone who is not malleable and does not  fall under his spell.

I am incapable of dividing the community - also because he got there first!  It is clear from my posts that I have always advocated support for the properly constituted committee and have asked for refrain and reflection. May someone with lots of free time should make a record from the posts here to find out what and how accusations have been levied against Max.

Even with his prize of an EGM, he is still not satisfied. I suspect many of us have touched the raw nerve over the weeks  and I have reached the end of my tether so I shall l not be casting my pearls before swines again.

It seems that every step the community board is doing and has done is critizised now.

I don't have problems with critics but  when they are based on rumours and false facts I get really dissapointed.

Max  I am really dissapointed about the rumours you spread based on personal estimations and false facts.

What I really regret is that you are trying to convince other neighbours with these rumours which divides the community into 2 parts.

The longer this is going on the more the harm will be for Don Juan.

I can assure everybody that the community board has everything under control at the moment.

But a lot of energy todays goes to some persons that come up alsmost every day with a new subject with the message that the board did it wrong again.
 

It looks like a political campaign towards the EGM which is very sad.

Personal I am really fed up with this situation and really are dissapointed on the way people behave as neighbours and aslo towards the board that spend a lot of time and energy to make the best of it.

Therefore my respect for those who complain on every move decreases rapidly

I really hope everbody comes to the EGM and think about what I just wrote.

Best regards,

Rene

Hello

If i thought that the costa del sol  was such a dangerous and criminal area i would not have purchased an apartment here ,i think it is no better or worse than any other part of europe.There are enough residents here to keep an eye on the area a phone call to the police  is much less expensive and can be much more effective,what has happened to neighbours look ing out for each other .I commend the committee for the suspension of security even though its because of financial reasons .I am sure after a while the majority of neighbours will get used to the situation and DJ1 maybe a much better place to live in.A few neighbours have concerns and that is understandable the answer lies in the community being united  and working together.I suggest to the disidents to be more possitve in in their approach and dont be anti everything what ever the motive might be

 René, 

Why do you say 'Max  I am really dissapointed about the rumours you spread based on personal estimations and false facts.' 

Just present the correct facts and the problem is cleared. I notice that the committee spends a huge amount of money on some extras. It looks very strange and it could possibly the save the whole community a lot of money if we get normal prices instead of rip-offs. If my facts are wrong correct me, but don't keep on moralizing me. Just explain why we had to pay ten times the shop price for stuff and why nobody noticed.

I want a good and responsible community which functions well. All this personal stuff by a few posters just gets in the way of that goal.

Max

the point about security is not just a few people feeling unsafe.

On the one hand it is about insurance. I have spoken to people who are really upset that they had to change their personal insurance (and pay more for it) because we are now without security. The board has stated that having Ticho on site is safe enough, but no insurance company will ever pay out on that basis.

The other point is that the neighbours voted several times for onsite security. For the removal of such a service, a 2/3 of the neighbours have to approve it, according to the horizontal law. If the finances don't allow security then the whole community should look again at the budget and decide together what the priorities are.

Hi David,

I found some time to check. This is how it looks like (random shot, not selected). 

The grid you see is 15x15. I count 0,6 small plants per square meter on average. The garden wall is estimated by me at 40 x 7 meters (height is variable, but I tried to be generous).  

The math says there are 280 m2 x 0.6 so that would lead to 168 seedlings. So you were right that my estimate was wrong. I could be a bit off: I didn't want to count them all :) The most optimic round off would be 200 plants at 1200 or  6 Euros a piece.  

Garden centers sell this kind of stuff in these quantities easily below 60 Eurocent so I would still be hugely overpriced at more thatn ten times the commercial value. Unless of course these are very special plants. That's something I can't judge.

Max

Saskia,

I agree with you.

If the majority of the people decide on the EGM to have security then we have to skip other projects to allow this subject being substracted from our budget.

On the other hand for people who have their appartment for rent they would like to see some building up of DJ to make it suitable for a nice and luxuary holiday for their renters.

Also current neighbours would get benefit from it.

In my opinion we should first construct adn finish the gardens because it will take a few years for plants and trees to grow before it will look beautifull. Therefore we need to make consessions because the budget doesn't allow both of the projects.

So if we could wait for example half a year with security we could use that money to buy some trees and plants.

About security, the amount of money per year paid when there is security or not is less than 50 euro.

Not that huge amount. about one nevening on a terras in a cheap place at the costa del sol.

In my opinion we should first spend mony on fixing problems and building up the community and then to services like security.

I have seen many communities and most of them are so beautifull but it will take some years to reach the goal. But if we want this to be fact in 2 or 3 years we have to start now. The goal is to make DJ a nice, beautifull and peacefull place for a relaxing holiday in combination with happy neighbours that live there permanently.

So to summarize:

First the building and troubleshooting phase

Second but as soon as possible the services phase on what the majority of  people request.

Best regards,

Rene

Dear Carol,

You and Max seem to have appointed yourselves to speak for ALL the people who have supported the call for the meeting. You have no right to do so. You don't know what they think or what way they will vote any more than I do. All you can say is 50 people supported a call for a meeting and some of them don't count because they were renters.

I realise this is a concept that you will not understand but I have strong personal ethics. I abhor your constant slanderous accusations. If you are a real person it is no wonder you hide your identity. I have nothing to hide and neither has the committee. We are having an EGM which is what you said you wanted. Now that you've got that what are you trying to achieve now? Do you want to get rid of the committee?

 Hi David,

You addressed this to me as well. I don't think I can speak for anyone but myself. I know that there are many people who more or less agree to my ideas about a proper functioning community and are afraid to speak out on EOS as the current climate is not very welcoming. 

You state again that there are less than 50 people supporting the meeting. The committee said so again in a letter addressed to almost all the neighbours (some were excluded like we were).  They claim the meeting was a courtesy. However the facts are that over 27% voted for it. I posted all this before in a response to you on April 10::

"Hi David,

Of course I don't have any special rights, but this large group of neighbours certainly has. 

Rene, thank you for your answer. I do understand the motives of the comittee, as i do understand that choices have to be made. Where we differ in opinion is WHO should be the one to make these choices. You say: the comittee has been elected to do a job, now trust in us and trust the choices we make. I agree with you that the neighbours shouldn't interfere in every single simple decision made by the comittee, because you can't work that way and I understand your frustration if neighbours start to question every petty little decision made by the comittee. I've seen it very close last year and it's demoralizing when you are working so hard for the good of the community and mostly get grief and complaints. I know both you and David very well and I am convinced you want the best for the community and are working very hard for that. I also know a lot of hard work is going on in the background that none of us know of, but that is of big importance for the community.

However, when at a certain point some bigger decisions of the board are questioned by the neighbours (for whatever reason) it is wise to listen to that neighbours. You don't have to change your decisions based on those few neighbours, but nobody would see it as a defeat if a comittee thought  "right, not everybody agrees. Let's find out what the majority of the community wants ". The big resistance to call an EGM, the refusal to disclose certain facts, the hostile attitude towards neighbours who don't agree with the view of the comittee, and the strong call to give your proxy vote to the comittee have made some people really uneasy because it suggests that the comittee rather defends the decisions they already made, than listen to the opinions of the neighbours.

Whatever it may seem to you, the call for the EGM and the questions asked are not much more than that. A request for information and explanation on the basis of a fair debate and a chance to let our voice heard. Nothing more.

Saskia,

We really don'y have a problem with neighbours that want to let know their voice.

The community board is representing all neighbours and that is our obligation to do so.

Therefore the rule is that 25%of the people can call for an EGM. And yes now its time to have this EGM.

You wrote: I agree with you that the neighbours shouldn't interfere in every single simple decision made by the comittee, because you can't work that way and I understand your frustration if neighbours start to question every petty little decision made by the comittee.

That is exactly what the problem is and I have the same opinion but in this we differ very much from the opinion of Max.

Because he is questioning and fighting every step the community board makes at the moment like Don Quijote fighting the windmills.

I have no problem with checking finances but then you report directly to the board so they can explain his questions. Like the way it will be done in sports clubs etc that an independant person checks the accounts and reports after discussing with the board.

But now Max is doing this the other way round

Investigates every move like a Sherlock Holmes  but often based on old data or without the current facts. And when he thinks he has discovered something he is spreading his version among the neighbours and put it here on EON. Influenzing people with only one side of the story and assumptions and yes sometimes true facts

That is not the way how we are going to work!!!

The board has nothing to hide, but we cannot put in energy every week when our Sherlock Holmes thinks he has discovered something. Like in your opinion above Saskia.

Max is creating an island within the  community this way and that is in my opinion the wrong path to follow.

Best regards,

Rene

René, you know that's not fair. You know that Max has had a lot of contact with you and David and has asked all his questions in private first. He has asked both of you to check the accounts, but because nobody could answer him he decided to look into the books himself to find out why we are in such financial troubles. After that he warned you again that you should have a look because there seemed to be irregularities. Those are not minor issues René.

I personally prefer a public debate -whenever that is possible- above private discussions. I wrote before that I have heard a lot of people who have tried to contact the administration are members of the board but never got any response, and eventually came to us. That combined with the fact that the comittee has put up such a big fight to avoid the EGM (until it was forced off by law) have made people lose some trust in the comittee and yes, the natural human response is then to watch other decisions that are being made more closely. People talk a lot René, don't blame Max for being the messenger. Without him you wouldn't even know about a lot of the problems here and the way people feel about decisions being made.

It doesn't help the debate and the trust to respond to everything with "your facts are not right ", but refuse to disclose what the real facts are according to you. Anyway, I hope the EGM will be the good opportunity to set things straight so everybody has the true facts and regain their trust in the comittee.

Saskia there has been contact between me and Max but not about the accounts. Community money is our money just as much as it is yours and we watch it carefully. We have better financial control than the old committee where the control consisted of Toni ordered things and Hernan signing the cheques.

One of the problems at Don Juan is everything you touch seems to be broken. We are constantly repairing things that have been left in a bad state by the developer. We have also done more by way of improvements. We always agree costs before authorising them. Having said that there are costs that I want explanations for. I had already raised concerns before Max put his figures on EOS. In the past when I have queried thngs they have turned out to be legitimate but perhaps not properly described in the accounts. I have no reason to think there is anything wrong at the moment but will continue to check.

Saskia

You deserve to be congratulated for displaying some sense in what is a long running saga. Your words :

I agree with you that the neighbours shouldn't interfere in every single simple decision made by the comittee, because you can't work that way and I understand your frustration if neighbours start to question every petty little decision made by the comittee. I've seen it very close last year and it's demoralizing when you are working so hard for the good of the community and mostly get grief and complaints.

will strike a cord with many within the community who post here and also those who do not. The elected committee deserves our support, gratitude and respect.

Now that the EGM is a reality, it is also time to put a stop to any more online discussions about the rights and wrongs of the two sides and let the community decides at the relevant time.

Saskia there was no contact about any account whatshowever from Max to me either.

Nor the plants and the dectector lamps.

Best regards,

Rene