The spring 2009 EGM

 RG,

The 8000 Euro court case claim is not on the agenda as requested by the neighbours; thats just an estimate which could be off by 2000 Euros plus or minus. The 18.000 Euros (my goodness!) for a post box is on the committee's agenda.  By the way I haven't seen any hard facts about it as yet, but they are already asking for an extraordinary fee to finance it!!!

Anyway it's silly to discuss an extra fee before discussing the real budget. That's not a proper agenda.

Max

Max,  I thought PMs are just that -PRIVATE -.Don't try it on because I gave you no reasons or explanations other than to remind you that my financial affairs are my business. Let's hope your wallet matches your mouth/pen.

Thought you didn't like 'keyboard wars' oh the temptations, goadings......................

Max is wrong the matter of the cleaners contract termination which according to him may eventually lead to a court case which they may or may not win and we may or may not have to pay €8000 is quite clearly on the agenda as requested by them. The fact is that Max & co are scaring people into believing that we are facing a possible pay out of €8000 euros when in fact there is no court case and even if in worst case scenario we do end up paying it would be much much less then this amount. Yet the committee can't even place an estimated amount for the mail boxes which will be required if the Correos are to come to DJ without it being called a presumption so far everything Max has claimed has been based on a presumption. 

Max says '€18000 euros my goodness' for mail boxes what about the €6000 odd the last committee of which Max was the vice president spent on odd and sods like junk mail trays and bins which were totally unnecessary ? He didn't worry about that but now suddenly he is so concerned about the cost for the mail boxes. 

 I'm trully missing the point here. I reread the offical agenda I posted which at least 55 concerned neighbours supported and I can't find a reference to courtclaims by Hervas.

Max,

You truly do seem to be missing quite a number of points. First your "official agenda" is not the "official agenda" it is simply a list of points that you personally requested to be included on the agenda. Even your and Toni's hot-shot lawyer agrees with the committee on this. (By the way I hope you are going to pay him as you are responsible for putting poor Toni in this position)

Second your "at least 55 concerned neighbours" includes renters who are not entitled to vote and multiple owners who are only entitled to 1 vote so please stop exaggerating.  They also signed up to 2 different sets of agenda points so you can hardly call the one you posted "official".

Third, not only are you trying to tell the committee what to do you are now telling every member of EOS what to do. You own 1 apartment out of 204 and you are entitled to equal say with the rest of us which is less than 0.5%. People are free to post what they want where they want. you used to tell people off for unnecessarily opening new topics. Now you are doing it resulting in the same discussion occuring on various threads.

Finally below is a little reminder of what you wrote on EOS a few months ago:

Cleaning:
We pay 35000E to a cleaner. How often is she cleaning? 5 floors in 10 buildings every day? Is she cleaning outside too? Are we paying her per hour(while she is talking) or do we pay a fixed amount?

We pay a fixed amount. The general contract says to keep the blocks in perfect order including all the communal areas inside them (f.i the parking spaces). I don’t own the detailed list which specifies how often what has to be cleaned. The buildings had to be mopped at least once a week and currently that’s not happening. In the beginning there were no complaints, but you could also see the two of them cleaning quite often. Nowadays we hardly see them.

 Hi David,

Hi Max,

We disagree about a lot of things. You call what the committee is doing a farce. To me what you and your little group of disidents is doing is a farce.

You say we can't change the agenda. It is true that if you make a proper request to put something on the agenda you are legally entitled to have it on the agenda but that is as far as it goes. Asking for items to be put on the agenda doesn't give you any special status. You wont be running the meeting and you don't have any special rights to be infringed.

Your call for the meeting contained irregularities. You had got people who owned multiple apartments to sign more than once which is illegal. You got renters to sign. you just admitted this - how is this a misrepresentation of the facts?

The agenda you put on EOS and the one you sent with the call for the meeting were different. It doesn't actually matter. As you wrote to me privately anyone can put forward items to go on the agenda. You signed for yours on Saturday and that made them valid but they are YOUR points. People signed for the meeting not your agenda points.

You make an allegation that a member of the committee has a personal vendetta against one of the cleaners (the one with no employment contract who was working illegally). This is a serious allegation. If you can prove it do so. If you can't you should withdraw it. I have been wondering if you have a personal vendetta against one of the committee members. You may have but as I can't prove it I cannot say that you do.

 Hi David,

Of course I don't have any special rights, but this large group of neighbours certainly has. 

Recheck the list the administrator signed off and you will see that there are no renters on it. You call over 27% of the real owners a small group; I beg to differ. The letter the committee distributed today states there were 'irregularities'. The administrator disagrees with you.

The original request for the agenda as placed on EOS has never been the basis for collecting signatures. All people who wanted to sign have been properly informed about all the issues. One of the huge issues wanted on the agenda was the status of all pools in our residential. As you know there are currently huge problems with licenses and access to pools so it was put on the agenda in accordance with the request of all the undersigned. 

Innuendos about personal issues, selfishness and what else have been posted before by the small group of people who oppose this meeting. I don't think a vice-president should take part in this kind of 'discussion'

To get back to the real issues: will the committee defend the change of the agenda? I have stated why it's not only illegal, but also unworkabable. Deciding about an ridiculouse extra expenditure of 18.000 before discussing the budget just doesn't make sense.

Max

 In Max's earlier post he wrote:

 Hi RG,

It was indeed very unfortunate that I could't attend the last AGM because my wife was suddenly very ill and had to go to hospital. However I attended the other four meetings and I always was able to vote as I did pay my fees. Just two people opposing a meeting who did not pay is not very convincing for 'democracy at work'.

Did you have a look at the expenses the current committee made so far? Do check the figures and realize that there is not even a comparison.

I oppose the change of the agenda as it doesn't make sense. I'm waiting for the committee's explanation why they changed the order of the agenda.

There is a letter from the committee dumped in the mailboxes of all the foreigners. Apparently our mailbox, like these of the Spanish, was not served this letter. I assume it's a compliment we are no longer considered foreigners, but I find it strange.

The letter contains facts which are not true, but the most worrying part is that it asks to send a blank proxy vote to the committee. Rene told us that at the EGM the real facts would be revealed, but now the committee is demanding the proxy vote before these facts are known.

I don't think this is a proper approach. People should only vote if they are in the know. We refused votes when we thought people didn't understand the issues. Like I said earlier a proxy war is not the way to solve the issues. When in doubt don't vote, but a selective call to a number of owners in a letter asking to vote for the committee is not a proper action. I hope the committee will publish this letter on EOS so that we can comment on the facts as they are put forward.

Max

Max

Max,

Provision of mailboxes is capital expenditure.They have to comply with Correos specification for size and security and as they will be a permanent feature need to be build in a way that fits in with the look of the rest of developement. Can it be done for less than 18,000€? I hope so and if it can the special charge required to cover the cost will be lower. It cannot be paid for out of normal income so there is no need to consider the community finances before considering this item.

The provision of a security guard is ongoing expenditure so it is right and proper that it is considered after the financial update but it can't be paid for with virtual money. We will have to cut expenditure elsewhere or increase the monthly fees to cover the cost. Please don't worry about this being "turned into an information item" on the agenda. I do not know if this is a Spanish thing or unique to GICS but they have done it with every agenda since the beginning. If the community wants a guard and agrees to pay for it we'll get one.

Most of the rest of the agenda related to items outside the control of the committee. No doubt people will let off steam as usual but the most the committee can do is write letters and ask for meetings which it is already doing anyway.

The only other item is the controversial subject of the cleaning contract. We thought we should clear up all the easy stuff first then people can talk for as long as they want about this.

You raise some other questions which I'd like to answer but I don't want to mix them up with the agenda

Max,

You know a lot about the community.

You have a lot of ideas and also positive ones.

You also have informed me often about issues and I have been working on it

Like the pools they are no issue anymore, I have seen the lab results and they are different from your measurements.

Only nitrate is out of range and will be handeled by gently refreshing the water

But what amazes me that you are keeping information for you and the group of neighbours around you

For example the mailboxes, we are glad to know and accept your idea if it can be done less that 18000 euro!!

Why holding back this information and call for an EGM to present it? Is it pride?

Together we have to make DJ a better place!! 

Then the Hervas case, as David copied your post from a few months ago.

You would like to end the Hervas contract because of the same reasons we have now.

Besides the post in red below you also told me this in person.

You even blamed Hernan the President at the time that he is letting it go and stated that the community board is very frustrated about it.

And now you have turned 180 degrees and vote for restoring the contract?

I really don't get it.

About the agenda.

We have called your lawyer because we wanted to know if he has said that the official agenda is illegal

He has never said such thing was the answer. As long as all points will be covered its legal.

Let the board first explain the current situation to all the people and then decide on what is possible to do.

Seems fair to me.

So please don't make it harder for everyone as it already is and put salt on every snail (Dutch saying)

Best regards,

Rene

René wrote:

But what amazes me that you are keeping information for you and the group of neighbours around you

For example the mailboxes, we are glad to know and accept your idea if it can be done less that 18000 euro!!

Why holding back this information and call for an EGM to present it? Is it pride?

At the informal meeting I attended with Ana and Javier and 4 other neighbours, a proposal was done to arrange this for a much lower prices. Details where exchanged and the two comittee-members promised to look into this and keep us informed of the progress. Also one of the undersigners for the meeting has repeatedly send e-mails to the administration about this point and a few other points, but never got a response and in the end mailed us about it. At the meeting mentioned above we have given a copy of this e-mail to the comittee-members and again they promised to follow this up.

Neighbours aren't hiding things René, but are on the contrary really trying to get involved in community matters (hence the call for an EGM). They do however have the feeling that their voice isn't really heard. This is a good example of that.

 Hi Rene,

Max

You told René and I that the pools were not being properly maintained. I asked you to inform the maintenance company and administrator. You refused. You also told us that elements within your shadow committee were going to report the community to the authorities and we might face loosing the pool licence and a heavy fine. As a result we spent community money having the pool professionally checked in case the test kit we were using was faulty. There is nothing wrong with the pool but because of your threat we wasted community money.

You have used so much energy and time on your campaign to discredit the committee. Imagine what could have been achieved if you had used that energy and time in a positive way for the benefit of Don Juan.

 Hi David,

Max

I as I already said I have the lab results

Since I am managing quality in 9 pharmaceutical companies I know what is right and what is wrong.

Your testresults doesn't correspond to the report.

The acidic water was las oktober and I found it and reported to maintenance so this information is long out dated.

But indeed we have to be carefull

Current status: Ready for swimming

Logbook is also kept and I will check it as soon as I come over

End of discussion.

Hi everyone,

Most people know me, my name is Andy (block 2, phase 1) I was the first person to post on eye on Spain back in 2004, and I believe that I have been a major contributor in obtaining and sharing information for everyone at Don Juan. Over the last 5 years I have become friends with lots of people within Don Juan: Steve and Sam, Max & Saskia, RG, Westport & Davmunster etc.. just to name a few and I cannot believe what is going on here. We should not allow a small minority of people spoil what we have achieved so far and I feel that we should support the elected committee which we all (the majority) voted for. If we feel that the committee or any individual within the committee is not doing a good job then we can vote them out at the following AGM, its that simple. I will therefore be giving my proxy vote to the committee for the EGM. 

I will be over to Spain in mid July and would like to meet up with as many people as possible to try and get my head around what is going on at DJ.

Best regards, Andy 

I agree with Andy, and in my opinion we cannot accept a group of anonymous people to pollute the atmosphere anymore in Don Juan.

In my first post on EOS I expressed that people who would not stand behind their written posts on this blog by identifying himself or herself should forever be quiet.

If this simple rule was adopted we would probably not had to read all these polluting posts we see today.

As I’m not sure I can attend the EGM second of May I will today be sending my proxy to a representative of the committee.

Best regards Gordon Blk 1 

 Hi Rene,

I didn't start this public discussion about the pools. I know you're the expert, but you also know that without my confidential information the maintenance people hadn't been working hard these last three weeks to get at least the big pool open and clean. There are still irregularities as you will see when you come over. Basically they have used too much new water to clean the pool without adding the needed chemicals. The children pool is still closed which I think is the best solution at the moment.

Max