Hugh_Man

This was there responce ( Frankie Pow, Housing Comunidades S.L)
 

Dear Marisol

I have just received notification by mail of this proposed meeting and would
like to protest in the strongest terms with regard to the following

1 Whilst I accept legal notice in Spain is apparently only 15 days, I
believe it is totally unacceptable not to give more notice to owners on such
an important issue especially when the documents were signed in San Javier
on 5th October 2009 and a budget of over 1 million Euros is proposed. The
proposed meeting date just before Christmas is also totally unacceptable
especially for the many overseas owners who will be unable to be present and
feel unable to use a proxy due to lack or relevant information.

Legally speaking this meeting was approved in November and the by-laws state
that it only needs 10 days notice to be held.


2 The information on the website has only just been translated into English
BUT not the Statues which are the most important element for owners to
understand. The budget figures were also incorrectly entered and were
extremely misleading. I also note the proposed budget has increased by 40%
since 2008 with no satisfactory explanation or breakdown or comparisons of
the proposed costs.

All of the information that was passed over from Roda was is Spanish and the
delay has been caused by us translating the by-laws into English so that all
the owners would have all of the appropriate information in English and be
able to understand what is happening, the website has now been updated.


3. All owners have been aware for some time that an Entidad would be formed
eventually but have always been advised at community AGMs that it was not
yet necessary to contribute and indeed many were given the impression that
this would not happen until the resort was complete. It would have been far
more sensible to put these matters forward at next years various AGMs.



All owners were aware that the Entity would be formed as it is stated in the
Deeds to each property – at no time was it said that the resort needed to be
completed before the Entity would be established, there are other resorts
which are not completed and already have The Entity formed such as Corvera.


4. Very little notice or information of the formation of the Entidad has
been offered to both owners and their communities despite the fact that
there was a recent meeting of Presidents and Vice Presidents of the
Conjunto. This has not allowed Presidents to seek independent legal advice
on behalf of the communities with regard to the rights of owners to accept
or decline the proposals put forward and therefore will not feel they are
able to represent their owners properly.

The meeting has been called by Roda in accordance with the By-laws. Marisol
has been meeting with the Presidents that have requested meetings to clarify
any doubts about the Entity that they have.

Marisol has also been looking over the Budget which has been established on
last year’s costs and is trying to bring the Budget down.



5. No breakdown of coefficients of participation has been put forward which
would show what contribution would be expected from each of the communities,
the villas, the undeveloped and uncompleted areas designated for housing and
hotel/commercial centre, the sports areas such as the golfcourse and its
related facilities, the sports centre.

How then can any owner be expected to vote on a budget that does not explain
who contributes and it what proportion. Nor is there any information on the
voting structure showing what importance each community or area has in
deciding their futures.



The coefficient of each owner can not be published due to the data
protection law – however the Budget will be split between all components of
Roda including the clubhouse and Phases that have planning permission in the
original Partial Plan. Owners will be informed of their participation
percentage at the meeting.



6. No information has been provided by yourselves to owners advising them of
their rights to either question or approve the budget or if they are legally
obliged to accept the Entidad as proposed.   

The Entity will have to be formed eventually as it is in the property deeds
– Roda are only paying the Proposed Budget until the 31st of December which
is why the meeting is being held now as from the first of January the budget
will need to be assumed by the Entity as otherwise there will be no money to
cover the services.



I would therefore request that due to the importance and financial impact
this has on all owners that the meeting to formalise the acceptance of the
Entidad and the proposed budget be delayed until after the community AGMs to
allow more time to properly understand the issues involved.






 

Hello all,

My wife and I have recently returned from Roda where we have an apartment on Phase 3B! Directly opposite our apartments is an area of land bordered by the road and the main perimeter fencing. It is barren and basically an eyesore. Similar land on other parts of Roda is planted and usually contains a childrens play area.

When I asked at Rodas office when the area would be planted etc, I was told that the particular area of land was now the councils to do with as they pleased. She said the council is to receive 3 areas on Roda. The first, (on Phase 1,) has already been accepted by the council and turned into a garden. She also said it was unlikely that the council would erect buildings, but they may build play areas, gardens or suchlike. 

This is all news to us!

I wonder if the Council have to contribute to the UCE?

Regards, Frank

Shannon

Given the state of council finances in Spain I cannot see them contributing very much whilst they have us to pay up.

One of the documents that appears to be absent is a grand plan setting out which areas in the urbanisation are actual community, which are Entidad and which are commercial or development.

There is a waste area at the back of Phase 2 between the village of Roda and the resort that was once rumoured to be set aside for council sports facilities. No further mention has been made of this. no doubt it will  remain an eyesore.

PMountney

That is the trouble with sending the same email of complaint, they send the same response to us all.

As expected, very little in the way of useful answers.

1, Very nice of them to give us all more than 10 days, we are all grateful.

2.No mention of the misleading budget figures and no justification for a 40% increase since 2008

3.Interesting that Corvera already have an Entidad with only 300 or so completed properties, I wonder what they are paying?

4. Apparently at a meeting of Pres and VPs in October after the documents were signed Housing said nothing to those present, they are only meeting now because of requests and pressure from Pres and VPs

5.Coefficients are published on the agenda and minutes for Community AGMs, why should this be any different. We do not want to see individual coefficients, just those for each part of the urbanisation.

This is still the most worrying issue, as no one has any idea how much each community will have have to contribute and how much will be forthcoming from others like Roda, the Town Hall etc. The single most important point of discussion after the amount of the budget and should be known before the meeting should a discussion be necessary.

6. I can understand why Roda would not want to continue carrying all the costs involved but once again in Spain it seems the law exists to allow Developers and Town Halls to set things in stone without prior representation from the owners who have actually bought into the develpoment. A little two way flow does help relationships.

Dear All

We are owners on Roda and would like to vote against this proposed budget.  Please can anyone attending the meeting and prepared to act as proxy for us please PM me with their details.

Many Thanks

Hopefully, by now owners in Phase 2 apartments will have received an email via Housinh which states

Dear P12 Phase 2 Apartment Owner:

You should by now have received registered post advising you of the proposed meeting on the 21^st December called by Roda Golf in conjunction with San Javier Town Hall to ask all Roda Owners to adopt the Entidad which is the legal body incorporating all Roda Communities which will deal directly with the Town Hall.

To date Roda Golf have been paying our contributions to site security, rubbish collection, road cleaning and all matters not covered by each community.

At all community AGMS to date, owners have been told the Entidad had not been formed, therefore no contribution of fees was yet necessary.

It would appear that official documentation recognizing the Entidad was presented by Roda and signed by San Javier on the 5^th October and a meeting has been called to nominate and approve a Board and approve a proposed budget for 2010 to which we will all contribute.

Both Flan Lilles your Vice President and I, both freely offered our services to the community at this years AGM but neither of us expected to have to advise owners on such an important decision, considering the complexities of the statutes and so have officially requested that this meeting should be delayed until the end of January 2010 because of the importance and financial impact this has on all of us and to allow more time for clarity of all issues and seek independent legal advice if necessary.

We realise the timing of the proposed meeting makes it almost impossible for you to attend.

Should it not be possible to seek a delay we would ask you all to ensure you return your completed proxy forms to Housing, nominating either myself, Jill Sylvester or Flann Lilles or someone else that you trust as your proxy so that we may at least attempt to vote against the proposed inflated budget and try and ensure owners interests are taken into account when considering nominations to the Board.

For further info see:

http:// www.eeuuconservacionrodagolf.com

or contact

info@housingcomunidades.com

Best Wishes

Jill Sylvester

President P12 Fase II Apartments

....................................................................................................................................................................

If you are in Phase 2 apartments and have not received, please notify Housing of your email.

It is hoped that Phase 1 apt owners may well get the same/similar email from Peter Beard

Any others need to contact their respective Pres or VP and enquire if they are attending.

Tony2,

I have sent you a PM!

Regards, Frank

Hi All

I wrote to Housing to challenging the inappropriate date selected for the meeting, and asked them to defer until mid / end Jan so that more owners can attend. Housing replied :

"The only way to have this meeting postponed for you as an owner is to send us your Proxy vote, stating that you are challenging the legality of the meeting and that it should be declared void. 

If enough owners do this it will be declared void and a new date will have to be set"

Regards, Viv

vivi

With respect perhaps it may be better to give your proxy to your Pres or VP who if present can then decide whether it is best to declare it void before the meeting is held or declare it void after hearing what has to be said.

I believe many of The Pres and Vps have been looking at this approach and it seems it may be possible to void it after the meeting so things can be heard rather than before when there is still lots of absent information.

Even if we set a new date, would enough owners attend or understand the 24 pages of Statutes laid out.

A number of communities are using legal advice and in my view, money spent on this will be well spent for all our concerns.

Thanks Hugh_man

I will speak to our VP

Hi All,

Check out the web site  http://www.eeuuconservacionrodagolf.com/index.php?page=&lang=ing as the venue has changed. Look hard............... blink and you might miss it. It’s a box off the box that says ‘NOTIFICATION TO THE MEETING’ If you are not sure where it is, call Linda on 666 225 660 or my number bellow. I am going to be at the town hall at 10.00 anyway, as I am sure some people will not know about the change and where to go.  

Cheers

Mike

For those of you who do not already know todays meeting was apparently a very long one which ended in them appointing a temporary board assigned to investigate the issues raised and review the budget with a view of calling another AGM in February.

The positives are that perhaps owners will feel more confident in the budget etc by the next meeting and perhaps this will allow more owners to attend.  The negatives are that for the moment we are a bit in limbo, additional costs will be incurred having another AGM and some services may be affected in the interim.

A reasonably accurate anf informed report from friends at Roda FM who attended the meeting..................................

                   Roda Conservation Entity Meeting

As promised, here is my report of the above meeting.

As you might expect the meeting was, to say the least, a bit heated and it’s fair to say things did not go quite go to plan. Anyway first the facts:-

The meeting commenced at 10.30 am and concluded at 2pm ( Although this only happened because the room was only booked until then, we could have been there for days!)

At the head of the meeting was the Town Hall representative, a Town Hall lawyer and two of the Housing administrators. There were five Roda representatives, 18 British residents, and 20 Spanish residents of which it turned out, three were lawyers.

The residents were spilt either side of the room and a translator was provided.

There were six items on the agenda and looking back, we did not actually get any of them formally concluded! 

The introduction was by the Town Hall representative who explained that the meeting was called by the Town Hall as required by law and that all the necessary formalities had been carried out to the letter of the law.

We did not get on to apologies for absence!

The next two and a half hours were spent with heated debate about:-

-        The legality of the meeting

-        The notification process

-        The notice period

-        The changes of venue for the meeting

-        The various and altering bylaws

-        The amount of the budget

-        The coefficients for allocation of the costs

-        The contribution of Roda towards the costs

-        The possibility of delaying the changeover to allow more time to review things

-        The allegation that Roda and the Town Hall were working together against the residents

-        The request that more detailed information relating to costs should have been provided for consideration.

There are not many clear conclusions to have come from this period except that it was painful and very clear that we would not finalise things on the day, especially when we were advised of the time limit.

Things that did become clearer were:-

-        This Entity had to be set up by law and it had been part of the bylaws relating to the complex since 2004.

-        If the Entity was not set up by the year end there was a real possibility that the services would be withdrawn.

When it became clear that things were not going to be finalised the Roda lawyer was asked if Roda would continue to fund the services until things could be agreed and then be paid back for the cost, he advised that the question would have to be taken back to the Roda board for consideration.

It was confirmed that according to the bylaws the total costs would be spilt between the buildings on the site based on their actual size. There was not a cost to pay by the golf course but would be by the club house and any other building.

For the properties under construction Roda would have to pay 25% of the charge until they were completed

The administrator advised that they would not be making a charge to administer the Entity.

After all this debate a proposal was finally put forward as follows:-

-        The meeting should appoint a temporary board just to look into the legal aspects of the arrangements, and seek alternative suppliers to help save costs.

-        This board would be able to claim some costs from each community budget if necessary, to fund professional help.

-        A further Entity meeting would be called in February when the board would report its findings to the meeting and the process intended for this meeting could be finalised.

There was again a heated debate about this proposal, with the point that this would mean the costly exercise of calling the meeting would be required again, the costs involved in funding the temporary board’s activities would have to be met and the time taken to carry out it’s activities was too short to do it fully and too long to prevent the possible loss of services.

Finally the proposal was put to the vote and because of the proxy voting system, was carried by 140 to 30. Roda abstained from voting, although they were against the idea and wanted a board and budget to be approved, as they felt the residents should decide.

So this was the only thing agreed at the meeting.

A Board of 10 was created with a representative from the council, one from Roda and eight residents, split as much as possible between the communities with ideally, community leaders involved. ( Yes that means I’m on it!).  This board has to do what it can quickly and call a new meeting in February.

Sadly that’s it. Nothing more sorted and at the moment, no guarantee relating to the services.

Obviously I will keep you posted as best as I can.

As with my earlier note, this is my interpretation of the events of the meeting and based on the discussions there will be other views. The facts are however correct.

Regards and seasons greetings to all.

This is a fair summation of the meeting which I also attended (I did not know that there was a Spanish side and an English speaking side and ended up on the Spanish side but I got the gist of it as the person beside me translated most of it.) However there are one or two important facts which I feel should be clarified.

1. Roda/Calidona made it very clear that they will not be paying for the services outlined in the budget after 1st January 2010 and made it very clear that the residents were responsible for the services from that date. However, following a request from the meeting the Calidona representatives did agree to go back to their board to ask if Calidona would continue to pay for services for 6 weeks until the next meeting takes place. There was no definite agreement to repay the costs of these services to Calidona should they have to pay them but it was suggested that as a last resort this could happen. There is no way of knowing what will happen regarding the services such as security and rubbish collection which occur on a daily basis but most people at the meeting seemed to be assuming that as these bills are paid monthly that the services will continue until the full Entidad is formed and take over financial responsibility for paying these costs. Obviously it is in no one's interests to have the services stopped either the developer and particularly the owners so we will all hope that the services continue.

2. The temporary committee was formed to gather information primarily, to clarify the percentages/co-efficients for voting etc, to ask for other tenders or alternatively seek better value from existing providers of services and will only have responsibility for a budget of approximately 3,500 euro which will be made up by contributions from each phase and which will be used to fund the cost of postage to inform owners of the next meeting and to distribute updated information regarding the General Entidad. (The initial proposal put forward was to allow the committee to contract in extra professional help and advice from lawyers etc  which was strongly objected to as the last thing we need to do now is spend money before the General Entidad is even formed. However a lawyer (also an owner) in attendance offered his services free of charge so there will be no other costs incurred by the committee other than the 3,500 postage costs.) 

As the report states the meeting was extremely long drawn out and it would be certainly my hope that as many people as possible attend the next meeting as the budget of almost 1,000,000 euro is a very serious undertaking for us all. The administrators had all the information on what each property would pay if the existing budget was agreed and for me it is an extra 57 euro per month which is a considerable hike in costs. The new committee has undertaken to hold the meeting within approximately 6 weeks ie mid February which is somewhat concerning as this conincides with mid term but there is no way of extending that date as the mid February date was agreed on at the meeting. I am scheduled for surgery in February and will not be able to attend but hope that a lot of my neighbours and fellow owners do as it is a crucial meeting. 

Don  

Hugh-Man

Re properties under construction, does this include properties on the original partial plan that have not yet been started, i.e. hotel and final phase etc. as Roda should be paying for these as far as I can see ? Even if it is never built the plot was on the original partial plan when the by-laws were laid out.

Depends on what you mean by "Roda" the hotel on Roda comes under a seperate business called "Roda Golf Hotel SL" - is this business actually in existence?  Does it have an active board of directors or managent?  The same applies to Corvera.

Steve

It is precisely that sort of question that was unclear prior to the meeting and why the new board have now a little time to get answers.

In the byelaws as we see undeveloped property pays 25% of the fee but that does not clarify whether, residential or commercial, do not know if Spain has equivalent of business rates on its Entidads.

Why only 25% I do not know, does that encourage Roda to build more so they pass on the payments, or are they happy to pay 25% whilst the recession is on?

The other worrying detail came from Fair Dues, that his contribution is likely to be around 57 Euros per month for an apt.

Doing the math, if each built property pays average 60 euros per month, as presumably villas will pay more.

Means we all have to find a further 720 Euros per year total of 864,000 contribution from all built properties meaning only approx 136,000 contribution from undeveloped land and clubhouse, sports facilities etc. Which seems about right if Roda pay 25% on the 600 or so undeveloped properties only.

Does not seem  particularly equitable

Given the debtors situation existing on community fees, further costs will only exacerbate the problem and they will possibly have 2 entities taking them to court.

Just a thought but is it the case that Calidona might be doing the honourable thing and getting this sorted out now? 

It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that they may hit severe financial difficulties in the New Year.  At least by organising the community now, owners will be in a position to carry on the resort without them.

The new community might also be able to re-negotiate contracts without having to consider the incomplete parts.

Latest news re Entidad which should be going out to all owners. Note EGM has been brought forward from expected, mid Feb.

At the original AGM, only 200 proxies out of 1200 completed properties were received, this is your opportunity to at least have some say about the setting up of the Roda Entidad and our future.

....................................................................................................................................................................

URBAN CONSERVATION ENTITY

THE EXTRAORDINARY MEETING FOR THE URBAN CONSERVATION ENTITY OF RODA GOLF & BEACH RESORT         WILL BE HELD ON SATURDAY THE 30^TH JANUARY 2010 , IN HOUSING COMUNIDADES OFFICE, LOCATED AT SAN JAVIER, AVDA. DE LA UNION Nº100, AT 10. 00 A.M, FOR THE FIRST CALL. SHOULD THERE NOT BE SUFFICIENT QUORUM THEN THE MEETING WILL BE CALLED AGAIN AT 10.30 A.M ON THE SAME DAY.

AGENDA

1)      APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE.

2)      PRESENTATION OF THE ANNUAL BUDGET CALCULATED WITH THE DETAILS THAT HAVE BEEN OBTAINED UP UNTIL NOW. WITH A RISK OF DEBT.

3)      TO AUTHORIZE THE COMMUNITY OF OWNERS TO NEGOCIATE WITH RODA GOLF & BEACH RESORT WITH THE END RESULT BEING THAT THEY CONTINUING PAYING THE ACTUAL SERVICES UP UNTIL 31.03.2010 AND THEN BE REIMBURSED WHEN THE ENTITY HAS ENOUGH FUNDS TO COVER IT.

4)      THE PROPOSAL OF OBTAINING SOME INFORMATION REGARDING A LINE OF CREDIT WITH A BANK TO ENABLE THE ENTITY TO GO AHEAD WITH THE FIRST PAYMENTS.

5)      TO PROPOSE A CHANGE OF THE BYLAWS.

6)      ELECTION OF THE BOARD

7)      ELECTION OF THE ADMINISTRATOR.

8)      ANY OTHER BUSINESS     

9)      DATE FOR THE NEXT MEETING

PLEASE NOTE: On the webpage www.eeuuconservacionrodagolf.com you can access information regarding:

-         The Statues for the Entity.

-         Minutes of the constitution of the meeting.

-         Information and contact us

THE PRESIDENT

URBAN CONSERVATION ENTITY

GENERAL EXTRAORDINARY MEETING

PROXY VOTE

Please fill in the following and return to:

ENTIDAD URBANISTICA DE CONSERVACION RODA GOLF & BEACH    RESORT

            APARTADO CORREOS 192 

            SAN JAVIER 30730, MURCIA, ESPAÑA

            FAX : 968193967

            Email: info@housingcomunidades.com

I/We........................................................................(full name)

Owner of  nº .............................. authorize………………………………….

 ......................................................... to vote on my/our behalf at the General Constitutional meeting which is being held on

SATURDAY 30^TH JANUARY 2010

SIGNED................................................... DATE...............................................

Apologies for double posting.