I am just thinking about the 'children's play area' they say they are putting where the pool used to be in J13.  My enduring memory or La Torre is one of the most pathetic, 1970's looking, rubbish 'play area'.  If they think this is a fair swap then they are deluded.  Even when I was over last month I took a look at the stuff on the show apartment Jardines and thought the same thing - what's the point?  They are more of an ugly eyesore that anything. And I'm the mother of a 4 year-old!!  Give us back our pool !!  Maybe we should turn it on it's head and ask them NOT to put that crappy, ugly kids stuff on the site????

Hi all, 
I dont want to rain on anyones parade but in the contract where it says"The Buyer acknowledges and accepts that the Property shall be delivered with the materials, finish and layout reflected in the plans made available to it and in the specifications attached hereto." Does  the "property "which they refer to only mean the actual Apartment as this is what we are paying for?
 I am just asking the question as a means of determining what this paragraph means.

Regards

It's the paragraph after the one you have quoted which leaves us all in the poo..........It's as tight as a ducks' ****!!  Still, it doesn't excuse them on this one.  What say we all threaten to stage a noisy, placard-waving rally in front of their Sun Street office in London and invite the Telegraph newspaper etc???????  We shall, of course, warn the London office that this will be taking place in a couple of weeks time (to give them time to put the pool back of course)  It's a thought??

 

Hi All

It is not possible for me to get directly involve in this single issue as PW haven’t indicated any such material changes to the Jardin I am in, but of course keeping each issue fragmented is how PW would like to play it (divided we fall).

But by way of trying to assist those of you that are involved in this one, looking at the relevant part of the contract being, I think:

Part 6 Additional representations

It States: “The Buyer accepts that modifications may be carried out during the construction of the Property, both in relation to the Property and to the land lot on which it is located, due to project or construction requirements, or to municipal demands or requirements and always at the discretion of the Works Supervision.” 

Now I am not a lawyer but I would say that the removal of the pool and the subsequent significant reduction of provision should not be considered a modification, construction requirement or part a municipal demand/requirement.

This section goes on to state: “The contracting Parties accept that any dispute which may arise regarding the works shall be resolved by the Works Supervision and the Parties must abide by its decision.” 

I don’t know who the Works Supervision are but I would hope they are an independent body and I would if I was directly involved be finding out who they are and making representation to them preferably through your lawyer.

Part 6 ends by stating: “Lastly, the Buyer acknowledges and accepts that the Property shall be delivered with the materials, finish and layout reflected in the plans made available to it and in the specifications attached hereto. However, the Buyer consents to possible alterations in the layout of the Property. its exterior elements and materials resulting from technical regulations applicable to the construction of the Property, in particular the Building Technical Code.” 

I would say it is not being delivered with the layout reflected in the plans made available to you (those in your contract) and the changes they are making are not resulting from technical regulations applicable to the construction of the Property, in particular the Building Technical Code? This last bit I would think is if they have to make alterations to conform to building or safety regulations, removal of a pool I would not thing comes under this code?

To give my opinion on the question that nolankn89 asked "(Does the "property "which they refer to only mean the actual Apartment)". 
No I would say it is relevant to your property and the land (lot) it stands on and the things specified in your plans supplied as part of your contract.

Remember all the above is taken from the English translation, which is only to help you understand the contract and the Spanish version is your actual contract, but I would think it is all but the same. 

I would suggest you get advice on who the Works Supervision is and make formal representation to them I would also suggest you don’t threaten PW at this stage as this kind of act would not I think work in your favour, but if it did get to the stage of making protests outside PW offices don’t do this unless you know for sure that people would go as if it ended up a poor attendance you would have shot yourself in the fool so to speak.

Hope this helps

Regards

Phil

This message was last edited by PGM on 5/21/2008.

 

This message was last edited by PGM on 5/21/2008.

This message was last edited by PGM on 5/21/2008.

This message was last edited by PGM on 5/21/2008.

Whilst this wont help anyone- when we signed on the dotted line having chosen our location we were later very disappointed to discover that instead of an open garden, aspect as the agent described, and the plan showed, we would likely be over looking a childrens play area. We had originally decided we wanted to have a pool view but after much discussion with the agent we were persuaded how busy this area can be in the summer months and given we expect elderly relatives to use the apartment reasonably regularly a garden view could be more appropriate. I believe buying off plan leaves you subject to changes you can do little about. I know I've mentioned this before but didnt some buyers on La Torre suddenly find a supermarket on their doorstep- not in the original plans?

Hi,

I don't know if this is possible but has any of the people that have lost their pool views asked PW to re-locate them to a Jardine that does. I originally had an appartment on Jardines but, through my agent, got transferred to another Jardine without any problem at all. Just a thought.............

Phil

We did briefly consider this- moving Jardines as an option- but then thought you could go on for ever like that, because its clear things can change very quickly. Again we chose our Jardine because it was a short walk to the Foro!! That too has changed.  So we decided to remain where we are and maybe it will be a while before they put in a play area. Actually it isnt the concept of a play area that bothers only that we could have remained with our original idea because both areas could be reasonably busy- so what would be the difference?

Has anyone heard that individual gardens club together for play equipment or lounge furniture for the pool? That was mentioned to us many moons ago.


This message was last edited by JHMurcia on 5/21/2008.

I think the play area will probably only amount to whats already on show in Jardin 12. As for the poolside furniture we were told by our agent that Polaris expect you to take all loungers away on an evening to keep the ares looking tidy. 

Hi, that makes more sense. I cant remember who spoke to us about garden items but they were talking about the owners clubbing together to equip the gardens. Maybe thats in addition to the basics provided in a play area- it would be hard to monitor the use of loungers, sun umberella's etc. We'd have to have our own security force for the garden!! I think other developers dont provide a geat deal so thats where it probably came from.


This message was last edited by JHMurcia on 5/21/2008.

Thinking along those lines again it was a conversation about the proposed bbq areas in each garden and that the owners would have to decide what the curfew was for using the pool and bbq and how many pieces of play equipment and sun loungers there were. As we know the bbq area have been dismissed a long time ago.

(heavens- cant spell tonight, must put the vino away)


This message was last edited by JHMurcia on 5/21/2008.

We are in similar position to Phil (PGM) in that the issues about pools being moved or disappearing altogether don't affect us but we have every sympathy with those that are affected and understand the frustrations when you have specifically chosen a plot either close to or away from a pool.

It probably doesn't assist much, but has anyone asked PW for a reason as to why the pools are being moved?  Could it be something to do with putting them in a better position for the sun - might make it a bit more palatable if it was for a good reason!

One of our main concerns is the removal of the Foro and that is something that affects everyone.  Whilst we are in Jardin 12 and will probably be a similar distance from the new town centre as we would been to the original Foro, I am not convinced that the new town centre is going to provide the same range of facilities.  I have looked again at the description of the original Foro and it refers to cafes, bars, restaurants and shops.  All that has been talked about for the new Foro is tennis courts, paddle courts, changing facilities and cafeteria!  Not quite what we had envisaged.  

Not received a response from PW Customer Services to my enquiry about the new Foro so I am now asking our agents (Parador) to clarify a few things - see if they can actually earn their £500 Owners Club fee for once!

Debbie and Paul

I agree Payton- there should be more information. At least then there could be some understanding of why something has been changed. To have picked an apartment because its a pool view and thats as its been sold, then loosing the pool view, would be gutting.  Do buyers pay more for these positions? If so, they have an argument for sure.

We are also disappointed about the Foro. We expect our relatives to use the apartment and whilst they are relatively fit- even at 80- we selected the Jardine so they wouldnt have to travel far for basics and had a bar or restaurant close at hand. The best we can hope for is a kiosk or someone to do a white van delivery/sale site.

When you call customer services to ask them about the pools they just agree with you and say they don't know why they are being removed either!!  I did, of course, tell the lady I was speaking to this afternoon that a group of people were intending to visit their Sun Street offices in London to protest in a few weeks time.  Can everyone that phones them just drop that little message in too please????  Just for our own amusement if nothing else.   WKD.

Customer Service were not remotely helpful when we enquired about completion dates. It was more a case of 'who's completing- us? Don't think so, you must wait to hear from Polaris and anyway all dates are likely to change' It took our Solicitor to find anything out at all. In the past i have emailed them about the chest of drawers and the bathroom cabinet issues and never even got replies. It made me think they have a tactic of not passing  these enquires on.

Sounds familiar - their English suddenly becomes non-existant - or at least less fluent.  They are all so sweet though that I find it hard to get mad with them.  I think they are a bit hamstrung by policy and their superiors' diktats.

Having looked at the plans for jardine 6 (now 7) it looks to me like the pool has been removed because there is less room at one end - ie the communal area is not big enough to take two pools now......which leads me to ask how jardine 6 is now 7.....my explanation is that they have managed to get another jardine into the space by squeezing all the communal areas a bit and maybe its a building regulation (that would be health and safety in UK) around space between land lot (your property) and a pool......drop a pool because you can and sell another block of 20 or so properties at £85k a go.......erm...........I wonder.......I've become cynical now I'm designing my placard for Sun Street........power to the people!!!!!

 

Hi all

PW Customer services are basically very good at their job, they are very friendly, take you to a quiet room, offer you coffee, listen intently to everything you say, give the impression they agree with you without committing themselves, after you have told them your concerns which they note down carefully as if they have not herd about this before, they go away to see what they can find out. They leave you just long enough for you to think they are attempting to investigate your concerns but not to long so you don’t become frustrated with waiting.

When my wife and I when to see them at the beginning of the month the above is how it went and of course when we left we were no wiser or any further on, except the very nice young lady we had spoken to had impress on us all our concerns would be noted and management made aware of them.

When we came out my wife said to me wow she was good, and she didn’t mean helpful

Regards

Phil

have also just emailed our agent Parador for update on all these changes, as we are on Jardin 7 the move of the Foro really annoys me, we especially picked there because it was so close.  Have seen the new drawing of the Jardin with only 1 pool - if this drawing is accurate then we now get a pool view!  We didnt before.

Dont expect Parador to do much - they never have before

Viv

Hi Happy Buyer, 
Any chance you could let me know where you have seen the plan for Jardine 7 as I would like to see where we are in relation to the pool now.
Many thanks
Mandy

Hi Mandy, I had the plan sent to me from Polaris by email. I don't seem to be able to post it to the photos section, so if you send me a private message with your email address I will forward it onto you. Thanks Sarah