British driving licence and Residence in Spain

Thanks for all the tips.

- I sent the queries to solvit so thanks for the tip guslopez.  Ill wait to see what they say.

- Gus: the dgt websit does say on its page about "canje del permiso de conduccion de países de la union eueropea" that you have to accredit your residencia and provide  "autorizacion de residencia " and not knowing this is is an issue i provided my NIE which says "certifca que ..... como residente con cárater permante en España, desde el veintitres de enero de dos mil uno" (that i have been a permanent resident since 2001).  I provided my British passport as identity.  I have actually only be "empadronado" in Spain since 2006 but the problem was I provided my NIE and they asked for it.  It does also say "que el permiso no se haya obtenido siende residente en españa" which is the point causing me the problem and i must admit i have overlooked when applying and just cant understand on what on logic it is an issue anyway when I have a valid EU license from a country where i was also a resident.

- Rob: since 2001, I got my license in 2003, I have been a registered resident in Spain so  I was already a resident in Spain when I applied for my UK driving license but i was also still a resident in the UK otherwise i wouldnt have been able to get my UK license.  As you say i might be able to get some paperwork form the UK confirming i was a resident there (anyone know what that would be, i actual know more about Spanish requirement than UK) but I cant imagine Spain accepting this paperwork anyway when my NIE says i have been here since 2001.

Thanks for all the help really appreciate it as i do find this really annoying issue and any tips definitely help. :D Douglas.

Doug

                          So in summary i got my licence in the UK whilst a resident in both countries.

At least technically, you cannot be resident in two countries at the same time.

Sorry I have not read every word of the post,  but it appears,  you obtained your UK licence after you became resident Spain.  I believe that in such a case you cannot exchange it for a Spanish DL

I know that is the case with a Filipino DL,   it can be ONLY be exchange  if obtained before Residencia in Spain

I don't know what would happen if you gave up your residence status (EU Citizen Registration), exchanged your DL and then re-applied to register.  That MIGHT be a way around the probelm.

JohnZX:  "At least technically, you cannot be resident in two countries at the same time."

Complex area, but actually yes you can.  When I register this summer on the Citizens' Register as a resident in Spain and a fiscal resident, I will in fact be resident and fiscally-resident in both the UK and Spain.  This is because I will be in Spain for more than 183 days this year, but will ALSO be in the Uk for about 100 days, and because of the 5 tests of residency which are applied in the UK, I only need to be in the UK for approximately 90 nights per year to retain British residency.  I will be doing a UK tax return, and a Spanish one, and will also retain other residency rights and responsibilities.  

My finance bod in the UK, the Home Office helpline, and my Spanish lawyer have all studied the details of my case and the above is their shared view.  My nationality, status as a home-owner, availability of somewhere for me to live in the UK, history over the past three years, and UK tax-history all contribute various "points" which reduce the number of nights necessary to retain UK residency status.

 Tamara, you are right, you can retain residency in both countries due to the ties such as financial affairs and assets held in each country, but if you read EU bulletins and regulations, i have come across one that stated the country considered to be your PERMANENT residence is the one that you spend most time in, whether or not it fills the usual requirements of residency for that country. So for instance if you cannot be in a country for more than 183 days, but you spend more time there than any other country, that country is considered your primary country of residence.

There are many instances this can happen, say you own a house in Spain and England, and you work , say, in the Middle east. You are then splitting time between both resident countries and your place of work, so you could spend most time in your work country, but would this mean you are resident in that country, or Spain, or England?

The answer , of course is that the Place you are domiciled, that is, LIVING PERMANENTLY in is your main Residence, though technically you COULD hold residency in other countries also.

As i said in my earlier reply, you need to make this clear to the Authorities at your local Trafico, and take any supporting documentation with you that supports your application, and you should not have any objection to your application. This does not mean you will have an easy ride, due to the fact, as you have found already, the Spanish love throwing a spanner in the works at every step, though i increasingly find, the UK is little better!

Good luck on your quest! Regards, Rob

 Johnzx, it is you that seems to have missed Tamaras point , not her missing details on the subject. All she is doing is pointing out that her position in the UK, and Spain entitles her to dual residency as she satisfies the residency requirements in BOTH countries. The defining thing about your driving licence is that EU regulations say you MUST hold a licence "issued in the country you are resident in" so If you are resident in two countries , for whatever reason, it is up to you to apply for a licence in the country that you spend most time in , as there is provision within EU regulation for this status, and it is up to the person applying to prove this to the relevant authority in whichever country he considers to be PRIMARILY resident within and apply for a licence there.

Tamara is merely pointing out she holds this status, and she is not missing the point at all.

Robert  

As i said in my earlier reply, you need to make this clear to the Authorities at your local Trafico, and take any supporting documentation with you that supports your application, and you should not have any objection to your application. This does not mean you will have an easy ride, due to the fact, as you have found already, the Spanish love throwing a spanner in the works at every step, though i increasingly find, the UK is little better!

That of course applies, If one can change their non Spanish DL which they obtained AFTER becoming resident in Spain. 

As I said,  “I know  (as fact)  that is the case with a Filipino DL,   it can be ONLY be exchange  if obtained before Residencia in Spain.  In such a case one must take the test Spain.

 You have not addressed that, which seems to be Doug’s position.

 Oh, another point i think may be of note....... I have just been reading specifics on this, and maybe the Spanish licencing office has misinterpreted the licensing regulations a little. The reason i say this is that if you are Non EU resident previously, you have 12 months of residency in the EU to reapply for your EU licence or your Non EU licence, (American for example) becomes revoked under EU law. This means you have no licence and it will not be recognised under EU requirements. The 12 months grace is to enable you to take steps to attain a EU licence which you cannot exchange your American, non EU , licence for. You MUST take a test. Only certain EU countries are allowed exchange of their original licence for an EU one, and this entitlement varies from EU member state to another.

 I think this may be where the Spanish Trafico is maybe muddying their understanding of the regulations, as you have been in Spain, resident for more than 12 months , so they do not recognise that you are entitled to a Spanish licence, but this regulation is for Non EU drivers holding a Non EU licence. Maybe it would be worth raising this potential issue with your local Spanish Trafico? Dont forget, enforcement of regulations in any office anywhere is done by an individual and their interpretation of the regulations at the moment you apply.

 Johnzx, I quote your reply just,

"As I said,  “I know  (as fact)  that is the case with a Filipino DL,   it can be ONLY be exchange  if obtained before Residencia in Spain.  In such a case one must take the test Spain.

 You have not addressed that, which seems to be Doug’s position."

I think i just did address that in the thread i just replied, as you mention a Filipino licence for exchange, and that licence is from outside the EU. Is it valid for use within the EU? In Dougs position he is merely attempting to exchange a valid EU licence for anther EU member state Licence, which he is entitled to do, whereas a Fillipino licence would most likely have a restriction applied, or even not be recognised , as it has been attained from outside the EU and its Member states. Hope this clears that one up for you Johnzx. Regards, Rob.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 17/04/2013.

 i again quote you , John,

"Robert I think the requirements as set out at :- 

 Good for you Tamara!

He has. He got residency in 2001 & renewed the UK licence in 2003.

As an aside & slightly off topic but I didn't realise that citizens from Jersey, Guernsey & the Isle Of Man also are only allowed to drive in the UK for 12 months before exchanging for a UK licence., whether as a UK resident or a visitor. As a visitor they are restricted to driving a small car or motorbike , as well !

https://www.gov.uk/non-gb-driving-licence/y

http://www.iamintheuk.com/1173/driving-in-uk-on-a-foreign-license/

 I think John, he is saying the problem seems to be that Trafico has the opinion that as he had registered his residency as Spanish, they are of the opinion he should have applied and taken a test in Spain, as his declared residency(within Spain) was already Spain, and not the UK. They are not taking into account he is a nomadic migrant between both countries, and that his permanent residency is undefineable, as he travels between both countries often. This entitles him to register as a resident in both countries for tax and economic reasons, though you are suposed to decide which country may (note the word "may")be your regular domicile, and to declare this to the authorites in EACH country. This declaration over time may change due to the times you spend in each country, it is a grey area of EU regulation i am afraid, and contrary to Gus's first statement that its peculiar to him , is i think very wide of the mark, as there are, i am sure many in the same circumstances

 John, the "substantive reason" is that he took his driving test in the UK, after he declared to the Spanish that he was resident in Spain (this is different to being permanently resident).

The reason they are questioning it is that the licence issue is coded with the country of origin, and that copy will show he first passed a test in the UK with that licence issue. Hence the reason they are refusing to recognise that licence is because he declared residency in Spain prior to the date the licence copy was issued, and so they are questioning how this has happened , and are refusing to issue a Spanish licence, as they consider that being resident in Spain the only way a licence could be determined as valid, is if the test was taken in the country of residence and coded with a Spanish code. Therefore they are questioning the validity of that licence, and are refusing to recognise that a test has been undertaken and passed, as they consider that this should have been carried out in Spain.

The only remedy to this is to prove that there is a valid residency in the UK as well as Spain, then make a declaration that he is now primarily domiciled in Spain, though of course you need to find an understanding Trafico employee who understands the situation, and that is most likely where the problem lies!