British driving licence and Residence in Spain

 Johnzx, good one! i actually meant myself (and other contributors but not yourself!) Cheers! Rob.

 Johnzx, good one! i actually meant myself (and other contributors but not yourself!) Cheers! Rob.

I've just waded through most of what has been written and I think it can be summarised as:-

 - The Spanish authorities require you to swap your license for a Spanish one if you're resident here. That doesn't seem to be too unreasonable. But,

 - The EU law, which trumps all national laws, says that you don't have to if you don't want to.

I can think of several reasons, apart from the cost and the time involved, as to why someone wouldn't want to go to the trouble of changing licenses. Particularly if their residency may not be very long-term and they would have to go to the cost and fuss of changing it all back again. On the other hand the Guardia Civil and the, much less informed, Spanish police probably don't understand the nuances of conflicting EU/Spanish law...so you'll probably get fined and have to argue about it afterwards.

In short, you have the choice. is there anything I've missed?

 Bede, and Kathsylad, i think you maybe have both missed the qualifying small print in EU directives, which actually states within them that directives are to be adopted by all participating countries, but also goes on to state that there is provision within a directive for a member state to add any local regulation or variation to the directive and enforce it  within that participants judicial area, as long as the primary intention of the directive is not affected. 

So if a country wants to enforce a regulation stating you must exchange your licence if you become resident within a specified time scale, there is provision within the directive for this to be enforcable, and so, Kathy, Spanish law CAN say that, as it reflects the EU directive and the spirit of the directives content without any penalty or predujice to any EU resident by its enforcement. 

Bede, the EU regulation is not a law, it is a DIRECTIVE which each member state adopts into its provincial law, with local additions as mentioned above and therefore there is no "conflicting EU/Spanish law", as it has been ratified, with Spanish requirements into Spanish law (and is enforcable).

In the UK this sort of directive would be ratified and incorporated into law by the House of Lords and then it stops becoming a EU directive, and subsequently a UK law. Spain has a similar way of incorporation.

So you still have to abide by the regulation in whichever country you are in..........

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-10_en.htm 

Kathyslad is100% correct on all points,

The only OBLIGATION to change a modern, current, EU-Style photocard licence from (say) from the UK to Spain occurs when it expires. Not until. Then, if you are non-UK resident you cannot renew in the UK. You have to renew/exchange in the country of current residence.

Err, no, that's what it's about.

Sorry but I did not thlnk I needed to reproduce the whole of the web page as I gave the  address,  

i.e. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-10_en.htm

But this is an extract :-   

With regard to the driving licences issued before the date of application of the current Directive and which are still valid and in circulation, all these driving licences will have to be replaced by a new driving licence at the latest by 2033 

The main principle will be that all licences issued as of the date of application of the new Directive will remain valid as stipulated on the driving licence. Before expiry, the holder will have to renew the driving licence in the country where he is having his normal residence. 

  Before expiry, the holder will have to renew the driving licence in the country where he is having his normal residence.

So, if you have a valid UK licence issued with a validity date of say 2018, and you move to Spain today, and become resident, then you will need to renew this in Spain by 2018, in which case you will swap to a Spanish licence which will be issued in accordance with the format of the directive. So, you do not need to exchange your licence when you become resident.

Twas always thus, even from the previous EU directive, which the new . The discussion is about whether you need to exchange your licence when you become resident, so I'm not sure what point you are making..

 ElaineG you have quoted a qualifying extract from the EU directive on licence changes and enforcement to bring all EU member states licence holders into line regarding the renewal date and classes of an EU licence.

while the quote you give is correct, and is as follows,

"With regard to the driving licences issued before the date of application of the current Directive and which are still valid and in circulation, all these driving licences will have to be replaced by a new driving licence at the latest by 2033 

If you consider the implications of this quoted text which came in by this year, it only applies to a licence isued before the date the Directive came in, IE already held. Go forward 30 years and you reach 2033! They have put this clause in to cover their back as any licence already held WILL HAVE EXPIRED by 2033, and therefore been renewed! Also you should consider that the licence is usually valid for something around 30 years now in most member states (some are less) but due to the EU directive concerning licences there is a provision for updating the photocard portion of your licence , due to your appearance changing as you age, and in the UK this is TEN years, as it is i believe in Spain.

This has been discussed recently, earlier in this thread, and in the UK, if you do not supply a new photo to reissue your photocard, the DVLA will suspend your licence entitlement by revocation until you do. This means , effectively they have got you to renew your licence every 10 years, and that is well within the 30 you quote in your above quote. The directive mentioned also has no bearing on whether you must exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one if you move your residency to Spain, which is what this thread is supposed to be discussing!

 heres a page which somewhat clarifies holding a Spanish licence while resident in Spain,http://www.surinenglish.com/20130529/news/costasol-malaga/myth-busting-expats-driving-201305291207.html

Note that it says,

Note the phrase, "When someone becomes a resident in Spain, however, they become subject to Spanish regulations "

as previously stated this is part of the directive allowed amendment  terms and enforced by Spain, and as such is part of the directive on licence exchange, and the UK has much the same clause. So if you become resident in Spain therefore you have TWO YEARS in which to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one, unless of course you are only in Spain for a limited time, and you are maintaining an English property and English residence status in which case your UK licence would remain.

Oh and another point made there, if you have become resident in Spain from a country outside the EU this licence renewal date is only SIX MONTHS for non EU people

Now that Ive got my Spanish licence, is it possable to get a international licence so I can drive outside the EU without any problems?

Alan.   You can get an International Driving Permit (it is not a Driving Licence) from RACC  (RAC of Spain) and I believe from Trafico too.

Wiki Quote:-  

An International Driving Permit (IDP) is a document recognized by many countries which allows the permit-holder to drive a private motor vehicle in that country. To be valid the IDP must be accompanied by a valid license from the home country. The document is slightly larger than a standard passport and is essentially a multiple language translation of the permit-holder's normal driver's license, complete with photograph and vital statistics. In most countries however, short term visitors do not need to posess an IDP since the licence of the home country is recognized and permits one to drive in the host country. 

Robert 8696

  Driving licences issued by any EU member state or countries that are part of the European Economic Area are valid in Spain and they remain valid under the terms of the country in which they were issued. When someone becomes a resident in Spain, however, they become subject to Spanish regulations.

Note the phrase, "When someone becomes a resident in Spain, however, they become subject to Spanish regulations "

as previously stated this is part of the directive allowed amendment  terms and enforced by Spain, and as such is part of the directive on licence exchange, and the UK has much the same clause. So if you become resident in Spain therefore you have TWO YEARS in which to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one, unless of course you are only in Spain for a limited time, and you are maintaining an English property and English residence status in which case your UK licence would remain.

Well, the article you quote is correct, but I'm afraid you have misinterpreted what it actually says.

It says  Holders of licences that have an expiry date have to renew it before that date; and holders of licences that have an ‘indefinite period’ must renew it within two years of acquiring their residence status in Spain.

This means if you have an UK licence, issued in the EU approved format (i.e a photocard licence, with an administrative validity of 10 years ( as prescribed in the directive) then you do NOT need to exchange it until the expiry date, as I previously posted. If it does not have an expiry date, or it is more than 10 years, then you have to exchange it within 2 years. This applies mainly to the UK paper licence only, and I think German licences and one other EU country (can't remember which) where there is no expiry date or its 15 years.

With regard to this phrase

Note the phrase, "When someone becomes a resident in Spain, however, they become subject to Spanish regulations "

as previously stated this is part of the directive allowed amendment  terms and enforced by Spain, and as such is part of the directive on licence exchange, and the UK has much the same clause. So if you become resident in Spain therefore you have TWO YEARS in which to exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one.

As I posted above the two years relates to a licence without an expiry date. However, you are correct that When someone becomes a resident in Spain, however, they become subject to Spanish regulations " 

What this means, is that if someone chooses NOT to exchange their valid licence, then they are subject to the spanish regulations, which, as you correctly pointed out before, they are are allowed to apply, under the EU directive. However, the regulations that the Spanish have applied are the medical requirments , which spanish drivers have to pass when their licence is issued, and then renewed. These regulations apply you become "normally resident" in Spain,and you choose to retain a valid EU format licence issued in another EU country. The period of "normal residence" is 185 days in a year.

 This is what the article actually says, although it does not spell out the bit about the medical. This in fact has been the case for about 10 years.

This message was last edited by kathyslad on 16/06/2013.

 Kathyslad, you seem to have missed the part in the extract from my previous thread contribution, which states,

"Holders of licences that have an expiry date have to renew it before that date; and holders of licences that have an ‘indefinite period’ must renew it within two years of acquiring their residence status in Spain."

If, as you say , you apply the Spanish regulations, this also forms part of the directive, and all it means is if you have a licence with an expiry date you must exchange it before it expires, and if you hold a licence of "indefinite period" you must renew it within two years of BECOMING RESIDENT. this gives you the 185 days which defines your residence as Spanish, and then you have two years from that date, due to the Spanish regional addition, to the EU directive terms to exchange it.

This effectively means whatever licence you hold, once you aquire a Spanish residency, you have to exchange your licence for a Spanish one. You also seem to have overlooked the photocard part of a driving licence MUST BE UPDATED every 10 years, irrespective of the duration of the paper counterpart in almost all EU states, so if you have aquired Spanish residency by then, your update/renewal will be done through the Spanish authorities, as you would at that point be deemed to be a Spanish resident

Also note that the Spanish renewal terms states,

" Holders of licences that have an expiry date have to renew it before that date"

as photocard terms are ten years on update, it is conceivable that any new migrants licence would only have a few years to its expiry date, and as it says it should be renewed "before that date" it can be taken that as soon as 185 days Spanish residency has passed it would be wise to attain a Spanish licence during the remaning time elapsing on your licence. This would give you ample time to allow for the vagaries of the Spanish official system.

the above is part of the Spanish definitions, and DOES apply in addition to the regulations on medical tests on renewal. The only part, as you point out that is incorrect in my previous posting is renewal of a licence with an expiry date, but if you interpret the regulation correctly, it is likely that the time elapsing will not be much more than two and a half years anyway.

Lastly, if you study what most of these directives, and their regional amendments state, you will  find they all pretty much say the same in any EU country apart from minor changes that by and large become irrelevant under the circumstances. And if you bear that in mind, most people dont consider the regulations regarding their driving licence in any country they are resident in !

 Kathyslad you have just stated,

"Coud you point out, where it says in the law that you need to exchange your licence "once you acquire spanish residency", because this is the part of your posts I do not agree with."

Well i have news for you, that part, where "it says in the law", is actually NOT Spanish law, it is enshrined in UK law on qualifying and holding a full(or provisional) licence as a resident in the UK. The regulation that is applied in this case is the requirement in the UK to notify the DVLA of any address or licence particular alteration(such as a woman marrying and taking a married surname).

Therefore, as the address has changed to an address in Spain, which would be the current place of residence after 185 days, it is no longer a valid licence within the uk, as your adress is outside UK jurisdiction, so the two year clause is instantly irrelevant as your details HAVE to be accurate AND CURRENT. This being the case your licence update would need to be issued  by the country you currently reside in, in this case, Spain.

Therefore, "once you aquire Spanish residency" you have to exchange your UK licence as the Spanish address is not valid on a UK licence issue, and so you must exchange it for a Spanish one as soon as possible this is "where it says in the law", (the UK law)

I hope this answers your question