British driving licence and Residence in Spain

 Oh and Kathyslad, this is also a rule regarding taxation of a UK car, you cannot apply for a renewal in a foreign country the new tax disc is sent to the current registration address on the owners document (V5), they will not send it abroad. again the vehicle must be a current UK vehicle under UK legislation with valid documents to qualify for taxation, and this includes a current valid UK address on the UK documentation.

It is also why so many UK registered vehicles are parked up in Spain , because the documents have expired, and the Spanish police are much more aware of this than they were years ago, and nowadays they will check and  you run the risk of being caught.

Also , your last post mentions "Coud you point out, where it says in the law", maybe you should realise there is the law applicable in two countries to observe, and that each country may have slightly different requirements. It does not mean you can disregard DVLA regulations with your UK licence, just because you have moved to Spain. And it also means you need to comply with Spains also, so when you move (and take up Spanish residence) you must update your licence with the relevant (Spanish) office. This is due to the UK legislation, which you seem convieniently forgotten about.

Hope this clears things up for you.

Robert re  Vehicle Excise Licence , where it can be sent.

This is an email repy from DVLC  (I have high-lighted part)

Thank you for your email.

I should begin by explaining, since the 1st January 2004, the Continuous Registration legislation became effective. Under this legislation, the registered keeper of a vehicle is legally responsible for ensuring his/her vehicle is currently taxed or a Statutory Off-Road Notification (SORN) has been declared at all times.

Registered keepers will continue to be responsible for their vehicle until DVLA is notified that the vehicle has been scrapped, sold or exported, or unless SORN has been declared. Please note that as quoted in the Vehicles Registration and Licensing Regulations 2002, SORN declarations are only valid if the vehicle is kept off road in Great Britain or Northern Ireland.

If a vehicle is taken out of the country (for less than twelve months) but remains registered in Great Britain, the vehicle must be licensed.

If you have a V5C Registration Certificate and are registered as the keeper of the vehicle, you should take the document with you. If you do not have a V5C you should apply for one on V62* application form. The V62 should be returned to DVLA Swansea and will take between 4/6 weeks to issue.

However, if you are in possession of the V5C/2 new keepers supplement the DVLA local office may be able to issue a V379/1 temporary Certificate of Registration to cover the period the vehicle is out of the country. The addresses of the DVLA local offices can be found on our website below. If you make your application in person to a Local Office you will also need to provide proof of identity e.g. Passport, Driving Licence or a Utilities Bill, which clearly shows your name and address, and also proof of purchase or Bill of Sale for the vehicle.

If your tax expires and you need to renew it while you are abroad, provided you have a V5C, you may apply for a new tax disc by post using the application V10. The application should be sent to one of the Post Offices® listed in the booklet V100 or to a DVLA local office. The V10 forms are available from the Post Office or can be downloaded from our website. The V100 booklets are available from DVLA or Post Offices. Your application can be made up to six weeks in advance. All applications will require original V5C, or, V5C/2.

However, if the V5/C or the V5C/2 is not available you can submit a V62* application form. Provided you are shown as current keeper on DVLA records or if the previous keeper has notified DVLA of the disposal of the vehicle. You will also need to provide the original Insurance Certificate/Cover Note and MOT Certificate documentation to your Local Office. If you give a despatch address abroad the tax disc of the vehicle can be sent to you there. Remember that it is in your interest to check with your insurer that your use abroad is properly covered. You will also need to fix GB plates on your vehicle to identify the country of registration.

*If you do not have a Registration Document/Certificate there will be a charge for replacement Vehicle Registration Certificates.(£25)

If you are the registered keeper of a vehicle you may also use our website to pay for your vehicle licence or call our dedicated phone number on 0870 850 4444.

The website address is

www.direct.gov.uk/taxdisc

You can use our website 24 hours per day, 7 days per week*. And within 5 working days of completing your application, you'll receive your tax disc by first class post.

When you relicense on the internet or by telephone we'll electronically check your vehicle is insured on the motor insurance database run by the Motor Insurers Information Centre.

If applicable, we'll also electronically check if your vehicle has a valid new style computerised Test Certificate (MOT/GVT) on the database run by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA)

All you need to do is follow the steps by quoting either the 16 digit reference number on your vehicle licence application/SORN declaration form V11 or alternatively, you can quote the document reference number on your vehicle registration certificate (V5C)

*subject to essential maintenance.

I should explain, when licensing using our website or telephone service, the tax disc must be issued to the name and address on our records. Therefore, you would need to arrange for a friend or relative to have access to your UK address so the disc may be forwarded to you.

I trust my reply has been of some assistance.

Regards

Donna Llewellyn
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring  

This is a reply I had from DVLA

Dear Mrs xxxxxx

Thank you for your email

You may use your GB licence for driving in all other European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA) member states.

There is mutual recognition of driving disqualifications between Great Britain (GB), Northern Ireland (NI) and the Isle of Man (IoM). This means that when a driving disqualification is imposed in GB, NI or IoM it is recognised in all three jurisdictions for the period of the disqualification. However, any disqualification imposed by a British Court does not refer to driving in any other country.

If disqualified in GB, correspondence will be sent to the address we have on record requesting the licence if it has not been surrendered at court. However, if a driver leaves GB they are not obliged to notify DVLA of their new address as they will be subject to the driving rules in that particular country.

Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:

https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/directgov/en/reply_form_drivers.html

Regards

L Day

Customer Enquiries Group

DVLA

This message was last edited by elaineG on 17/06/2013.

 ElaineG and Kathyslad, you both do not seem to have absorbed the implications of becoming resident in Spain in relation to your driving licence. Elaine as your email from the DVLA says, and i quote,

"You may use your GB licence for driving in all other European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA) member states"

This is correct and does not relate to residence in Spain, but you also quote, 

" if a driver leaves GB they are not obliged to notify DVLA of their new address as they will be subject to the driving rules in that particular country."

this is particularly pertinent when you change your address, and Kathyslad, you do not seem to realise the implications regarding your licence and its current address. As you have moved your residence to Spain, you rightly say that the DVLA do not wish to know, this being the case, and the requirement to update your licence particulars is in existence(UK regulation), as you cannot tell DVLA due to being outside their jurisdiction, you MUST INFORM SPAIN. This means you will exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one at the earliest opportunity to preserve the details on it legally, that is after 185 days minimum residency requirements, not two years, not indefinitely as you seem to think.

Also, Kathyslad, i think if you had read recent posts and the content in them , you would actually understand the regulations that you seem to be interpreting for your own devices, rather than their actual definition, and that for them to be effective and understandable, you must apply the regulations from each country, as if you are travelling to a new country of residence your licence becomes a document in another countries jurisdiction, and you must comply with the issuing countries legislation, as well as the new one, until you have attained a new licence in the country you have adopted. and only then does the documant become fully legal in the country you have adopted.

You say,

" just to be clear, your posts about changing your licence, when you become resident in Soain, is based in your understanding of UK law, not Spanish law.

I'm afraid your understanding of the law in the UK regarding driving licences is also wrong. When you are a resident in the UK, it is correct that you must change your address if you move house. However, it is perfectly possible to retain your UK licence which shows a UK address that you no longer live at, if you move abroad I.e Spain. Have you actually read the UK regulations."

You must understand and apply regulations from BOTH countries, which evidently you do not.

You also say it is, "perfectly possible to retain your UK licence which shows a UK address that you no longer live at, if you move abroad I.e, Spain.

This is true, but due to keeping your licence updated and current, after 185 days residence you must supply new licence particulars to the relevant authorities, and as you are now resident in Spain, you must exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one (not the DVLA). During the 185 days your licence will have a "UK address that you no longer live at" How clear do regulations have to be?

This is why i mention road fund licence (tax disc) as the address particulars are very similar, and it seems expats also feel they can drive a uk car on Spanish roads without relevant current paperwork in force

I will just take this opportunity to let you know, Kathyslad, i have been in road transport operations for nearly 30 years, in the UK and the EU, and i DO know the relevant laws IN BOTH countries, as i have to deal with them on a daily basis at the sharp end, dealing with officialdom in all EU countries, and my advice to you is to look at the regulations in both countries and comply with the prevailing regulation at the point it is valid, and that when moving from one country to another, for a period of time regulations from BOTH jurisdictions will apply.

this is particularly pertinent when you change your address, and Kathyslad, you do not seem to realise the implications regarding your licence and its current address. As you have moved your residence to Spain, you rightly say that the DVLA do not wish to know, this being the case, and the requirement to update your licence particulars is in existence(UK regulation), as you cannot tell DVLA due to being outside their jurisdiction, you MUST INFORM SPAIN. This means you will exchange your UK licence for a Spanish one at the earliest opportunity to preserve the details on it legally, that is after 185 days minimum residency requirements, not two years, not indefinitely as you seem to think.

Let me tell you something, very simple, about laws.

They do not revolve around nor are they based on "implications". They are based on published documents.

You can go on thinking up new "implications" all day. All month. All year. It is meaningless. A total waste of time, because it is completely irrelevant.

What matters, and the only thing that matters, is what the relevant Acts or Degrees or Regulations published in official journals state, or what senior judges have interpreted them to mean (and they are then also published).

So, please point us to where we can read this for ourselves.  Not your "interpretations" of the law, but the real - actual - law that clearly states what you claim it states. I can tell you that I have looked and can find nothing of the kind. Even the very latest EU regulations on this subject contradict what you say. Had the situation been as you claim, much of what has recently come into effect would be pointless. This whole subject was investigated and researched by multiple teams of lawyers from all over the EU. Then it was 'gone over' by civil servants and ministers. Not one of them seems to have been aware of the "interpretation' you keep insisting is correct. Not one. Think about it.

 PS: One point you are overlooking is that the recent EU DIRECTIVE on the harmonisation and mutual recognition of driving locenses has superiority over any national law that conflicts with it. So it does not matter what UK (or Spanish) law says, if the Directive says it is OK to do it - it is OK. End of.

 66d35

Agree absolutely.

My guess is he won't accept that what he is posting is incorrect, but he won't be able to support his position with references to specific articles in the relevant legislation because it doesn't exist, as evidenced by the contradictory posts which he made over the last few posts. 

 Wow!  Talk about coming to roundabouts and not knowing which way to go.

Decreto Real 818/2009 stated that foreign driving licences from other EU states were valid in Spain for a period of up to 6 months.  After that time, if taking up residency, the licence had to be changed to a Spanish one.  This means that, if you are visiting, you can drive on a UK licence.  So far, so good?

Decreto Real 2012/126/EU stated that a photocard EU issued driving licence was now valid in Spain for a period of 2 years when a medical would then be needed and the licence would need to be changed at the same time. Still so far so good, until the spanner in the works appears.

 Costa Consulting Bureau (no, I don't know who they are either) checked with DGT Malaga and found that this only applied to those who had the old style paper licence, not the new EU issued licence.  The photocard would only need to be changed when it expired (according to them, it was when the photocard expired, not the paper licence). Now not quite so far, so good.

So, the law (which is what Real Decretos are) keeps changing but people still mix them up quite a lot.

Personally, I changed mine to a Spanish one because I'm sure the police will be just as confused and, no, I don't fancy arguing the toss with a Guardia Civil officer.

Maybe public transport would be a better idea.

 Boboal

The law doesn't keep changing, its people's misunderstanding which keeps changing. 818/2009 doesn't say you have to change your licence after 6 months, it never has done, nor did the law it replaced. They were both written to follow the EU directives, with the exception that Spain added the requirement to have a medical when you became ordinarly resident (185 days but there are family bits as well), as they were allowed to do, IF you didn't change your licence. If you do change your licence, then you only have the medical when it is due for renewal, which is the same date as your original UK licence. Otherwise you have to change it when it expires (which will be a maximum of 10 years, if you renewed it in the UK before you moved, age 70) . This assumes its the photocard type licence, if not,  and its the old style paper only, then it has to be renewed within 2 years.

Its pretty simple really, and has been the same, certainly since about 2004, if not before.

I have to say that posts like Robert8696 don't help, they just serve to confuse people, particularly when he quotes the EU directives, which makes it seem like he knows what he's talking about - which he doesn't.

 The problem with a  small minority of people here is that they will not accept proper advice that is easily verifiable from the comfort of their armchair. The following web page from the BBC news feed tells you about Licence responsibilities and quotes Victoria Ford from the DVLA. In this page it is stated,

"If you change your address or name, you have to tell the DVLA, so that your driving licence and car registration details can be updated."

As a person has become resident in Spain this change of address CANNOT be made to  the DVLA and MUST BE made to the Spanish authorities as a change of address due to taking up residence in Spain.

Why is it that certain people cannot accept that this is an aspect of the EU directive on driving licences in the EU by member states and renewal and current updates to their content is a legal requirement by the EU directive, and by the countries involved by the adoption of the relevant directive and its terms.

This really isnt rocket science to understand

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20968886

Why is it that certain people cannot accept that this is an aspect of the EU directive on driving licences in the EU by member states and renewal and current updates to their content is a legal requirement by the EU directive, and by the countries involved by the adoption of the relevant directive and its terms.

I politely requested previously that instead of advancing your opinions and inferences (example above) you kindly direct us to where we can consult the legal authority that backs up your claims. You have failed to do so.

The BBC is not a legal authority. Neither is the DVLA.

"Certain people" cannot accept what you say for the simple reason that you have produced absolutely zero credible evidence to back it up. You just keep on dressing up your opinions as facts, which they are not.  Either direct us to the explict legal authority for this, where it is spelled out in plain English/Spanish/French or whatever, or accept that you are totally out of your depth and are simply misleading people.

You are barking up a completely irrelevant tree with this 'change of address' nonsense.

 66d35, I note your quote in your contribution as follows,

"The BBC is not a legal authority. Neither is the DVLA."

I think if you research each organization the BBC is the LEGAL authority for licensing a television for reception of television broadcasts in the UK, and is the reason the LIcence fee in the UK is paid to the BBC. If you research the DVLA it is the LEGAL authority that licences drivers and is an office of the UK government.

"Neither is the DVLA" just how stupid can you get?if the DVLA is not the UK legal authority for driver and vehicle licensing in the UK, perhaps in your wisdom you could enlighten all the members of this forum.(this is why it is named THE DRVER AND VEHICLE LICENSING AUTHORITY)

Just because you do not agree with any reasoned explanation of regulations for driver licensing in the EU, which includes the UK and Spain you ridicule things and spout ridiculous statements such as the above.

Maybe you get a driving licence from the office of toytown?

The minds of people like you that fire off what amounts to nothing more than bunkum amazes me, and all it does is shows that you (and a few others) are nothing more than internet trolls, who have no interest in reasoned informed information, you are just interested in attempting to bait people and see what reaction you can provoke. I feel sorry for the likes of you, especially as you do not wind me up, and in actual fact i am laughing till the tears are running down my legs as i type this!

DUH!

Really.

Legal authority = Statute

As in " cite the relevant legal authority" = "provide a reference to the relevant statute".

If you do not even understand basic terminology, what on earth do you think you are doing "interpreting" this stuff?

It is self evident that you have no legal training, experience or qualififations whatever and are seriously out of your depth. I do, and I am not.

 having just looked from the comfort of my armchair, i have located EU licensing information on this website of the EU.

 http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/topics/behaviour/driving_licence/index_en.htm

If you click on the PDF link at the bottom (More about the EU model driving licence) of the page it gives the original directive details regarding plastic card licencing, and explanations of what this entails within the EU.

This directive is enshrined in the UK by parliamentary legislation LEGALLY ENFORCED by the Government department, the DVLA.

Hopefully, as i have now supplied a link to the pertinent EU directive you can all have a good read on me! Cheers. 

PS note this part regarding normal residence,

"Article 7

This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 18/06/2013.

Actually - I would suggest YOU read it. Carefully.

Nowhere in it - anywhere - does it support any of your claims. In fact, it flatly contradicts them.

Had it been the intention to require that holders of current, in-date EU licences must exchange them after becoming resident in another EU state it would plainly have said so. It catergorically says no such thing.

That only exists in your rather fevered imagination.

The UK address stipulation you keep going on about is a red herring in this context. This relates only to holders of UK issued licences who are normally resident in the UK. The legal authority in this case is the Road Traffic Act 1988, whereby failure to update a change of address is an offence. Critically, however - and you fail to take this on board completely - such a failure to notify does not invalidate the licence. Further, non-resident holders of UK issued licenses are expressly not required to notify.

If you further reseach this (and you need to) you will find multiple statements from official bodies that quite clearly and categorically state:

If you move to another country, you can drive there with your current
licence as long as it remains valid.

Source:

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving/validity/resident_en.htm

This is crystal clear. It is correct.

 66d35, see this link,

www.gov.uk/legal-obligations-drivers-riders

under the subheading , "Changes to personal or vehicle details"

it contains the following,

You must tell DVLA if you:

Change your name or address

Make any alterations to your vehicle

sell your vehicle

Develop or have a medical condition

Note the web page title is LEGAL OBLIGATIONS and that the first change to personal or vehicle details mentioned after the title "you must tell the DVLA if you," is change of name OR ADDRESS    

Note the webpage is part of the Governments information portal www.gov.uk, and as such is THE LEGAL BODY for law enforcement in the UK relating to motoring.

The upshot is, as you leave the UK to take up residence in Spain as i have previously said you have a legal responsibility to disclose your new address. As the licencing body is now Spanish once the 185 day qualification is passed you MUST apply for a Spanish licence to change your address, and while 185 days elapses you may retain the english address until your new residence status in Spain is attained.

It really couldnt be clearer, and is provided for in the EU licence model directive. 

Oh, lastly, once your 185 days has elapsed, you have a further two years to attend to renewing your licence within Spanish jurisdiction, and changing your address at the same time.

 Hello!

Please keep this under control and be civil, the thread seems to be turning into an argument so please keep your cool and be polite at all times even if you disagree.

thanks

This is like beating your head against a brick wall.

Complete waste of time.

The only thing left to say is that if anyone is in doubt, please get qualified, professional advice from a solicitor or abogado with particular experience of road traffic legislation. Do not, under any circumstances, rely on unqualified opinions from 'internet experts'.