Is Spain still the best option for retirement abroad?

Personally I love Thailand & if it were not for the distance (12 hours in the air) & flight costs (£650)  that's where I would be, although you have to be very very streetwise their.

If Thailand was the same distance away as Spain, I'm afraid Spain would only be second!

 Ian asks if Spain is the best option compared to other countries for retiring to.  Well, we've had this discussion before but let's look at some of the countries popular with British expats.  I couldn't possibly comment on places I haven't been to but maybe someone could give us the pluses and negatives of other areas.

France.  Well, the obvious drawback is that it's full of French people.  City living is horrendous. Country living can be isolated.  You have to go through the same rigmarole as in Spain with EU registration card, driving, taxes etc.  Property can be very expensive or very cheap depending on the region and state of the property.  You have to pay to make an appointment with a doctor regardless of whether you are on the system or not (but you do get some of that back if you actually turn up).  The food is great, reasonably priced even though some of the wine is vastly overrated.  It's easy to drive back to UK when you want.  Your pension is upgraded every year (same as all EU countries).  The people in the country can be very friendly, city dwellers not so much but you will need to be able to speak French.  

USA.  Quite difficult.  Firstly, you cannot just move there.  You will only be allowed two visits of no more than 90 days each time unless you get a green card.  Property, nowadays, is quite inexpensive and you get far more for your buck.  Property taxes can be quite steep (3 bed house in Kissimee, Florida, for example at around 3 to 4 thousand dollars a year).  You also pay a nominal rental tax whether you are renting it or not.  Eating out is still cheaper than UK but has gone up considerably in recent years (like everywhere).  You will be expected to tip 20% for absolutely everything, restaurants - taxis - carrying your bags - if it's a service, you pay for it.  Medical is incredibly expensive and you must have medical insurance, very expensive if you are elderly.  No freebies at all unless you are prepared to wait at a county hospital for a whole day.  Expensive to get back and forth to UK.  The people are very open and become your best friend after an hour or so.  Your pension is upgraded every year.  They speak English (sort of ).  Such a huge country that there are, literally, thousands of places to visit and enjoy, from national parks to vast tourist centres, each city is different and just imagine the choice of New Orleans, San Francisco, New York, Seatlle and many others.  DisneyWorld, Dollywood, Hollywood and even stay at the Heartbreak Hotel on Elvis Presley Boulevard in Memphis.  The Americans believe in doing things big.

Cyprus.  If you think the solicitors and housing agencies are corrupt in Spain, avoid Cyprus like the the plague.  Many property owners still don't have the deeds after 20 years of living there.  Tax on property is only paid on "completed" buildings so many are left uncompleted (wire rods sticking out of the roof so the owner can "build another floor when my daughter gets married" etc) and are not fully registered.  The weather is comparable to Spain but Nicosia regularly gets above 40C in the summer.  You are a bit restricted with the whole island being about the size of the Costa del Sol.  Eating out is still reasonable but supermarket prices are horrendous especially after they switched to the euro.  There is still the problem of the divided island.  Many properties, in both North and South, have been declared illegal by the UN.  If the island ever reunites you could find your land belongs to someone who owned it 40 years ago.  Caveat Emptor applies to everything in Cyprus from property to cars.  Your pension will be upgraded annually and you will have to go through the EU registration rigmarole.  Everything starts very early with many people working from 7 in the morning to 1.30 in the afternoon.  Shops only have "siestas" in the summer and everything is open throughout the day except for July and August.  Medical services are very basic unless you go private in which case it is excellent.  You get the same rights to treatment as you do in Spain, up to 2 years if under retirement age and free if over.  Workers get free medical treatment.

Australia.  Very far away.  Once there you will probably stay and won't be nipping back to UK every few months.  A huge country with virtually everyone living on the coastal areas.  A huge difference in climates with S. Victoria and Tasmania having an almost English climate (but reversed with summer over the Christmas period) and places like Queensland being tropical.  Lots of things that bite and eat you like poisonous spiders, millipedes and alligators.  Not to worry, this doesn't generally affect the city dwellers.  The way of life is fantastic with lots of outdoor living.  It is, however, expensive.  One of the most expensive places in the world and, if you want to eat out for two of you, bank on spending $100.  You have to prove you have medical insurance but you can enrol on the Medicare system once you have settled (Australia has a reciprocal agreement with UK for healthcare) but you still have to pay a certain amount.  Australia withdrew some time ago from the pension arrangements with UK so your pension won't be upgraded every year.  What you get when you land is what you will get in the future.  Very laid back, outdoor culture and well worth it if you can afford it and are willing to make a complete break with UK.  If you're a whinging Pom, don't even think of making the move as the Australians will simply ignore you when not taking the mick out of you.  The big downside is that people complain of a lack of culture, things to do, boredom (which seems a bit strange but if you're not a barby or beach lover there really is not much else).  The entire interior, the largest area known as the outback, is scrubby desert with nothing to see but gum trees.  Even the passing kangaroos lose their appeal after a while.

Italy.  Very popular areas in Tuscany for the Brits.  Same rules on registration as other EU countries and healthcare provision.  Property prices around Florence and the lakes (most popular for Brits) are very expensive but much cheaper in the South.  Again, rules and regulations seem to be made up on the spot.  Two different countries, really, with the North being very industrial and go-getting whilst the South is very much laid back Mediterranean lifestyle.  More expensive than Spain for virtually everything.  Pasta and pizza may be the staple but other Italian cooking is superb.  If you share a meal in a restaurant, pizza for example, you will be charged extra for the other plate, cutlery and chair.  The people are very nice and friendly for the most part except in Rome where they can be very abrupt.  The pace of life in Naples, despite being in the South, is very hectic.  Don't even dream of driving in the cities and even being a pedestrian is taking your life in your hands.  Traffic lights in Milan are obeyed, in Rome they are treated with a shrug, in Naples they are treated as a challenge.  Car parking charges in the cities for a day will probably cost you what you pay in Spain for your annual car tax.  Prices in supermarkets are reasonable and a very good meal for two around €50 (obviously pasta and pizza restaurants are cheaper at about €15).  Clothes, whilst being superb and fashionable, are a bit more expensive with a pair of jeans being around €90 and shoes around €100 for a decent pair of leather ones.  Rental costs in the city for a one bed apartment around €800 a month and about €600 outside.  Property costs are around €2,000 a square metre in the country and can be double that in the city.  Prices vary considerably between north and south.  The big plus is the culture.  Rome, Florence, Turin and many other places.  Public transport is quite cheap and it's easy to get around.  The opera at Verona, travelling on the northern lakes and staying in the small towns around them plus many more places to visit.  The cities will have a museum on every other corner, a magnificent church on the ones in between.  Football is huge and still reasonably priced.  Prices back to UK are quite reasonable and quick.  Your pension is upgraded annually.

Well, there are some places.  Spain is, IMHO, cheaper, has a very relaxed way of life, is ideal for retirement and provides virtually everything you could wish for.  And, did I mention the weather?  

Also bear in mind that every country I have mentioned, with the possible exception of Australia, is going through a financial crisis.  Every one is trying to find ways to get more money off you in taxes, public services are being cut back all round.  Countries are approaching financial meltdown with debts spiralling out of control including UK which has a higher debt than all those mentioned except the USA.  

Pick carefully, do your homework.  Your retirement is supposed to be the time when you enjoy life without the stress.  Don't do what many people do and bring that stress on yourself.  Work out what type of life you want, whether it is close to family or enjoying yourselves outdoors, and go for it.  If you go through the retirement years constantly worrying and moaning, you won't have many of those years left.

Thailand - its going to get much more expensive with the pound falling. My brother lives there and he feels it isn't the paradise it seems on first visit. Pattaya, no chance, corrupt police and foreigners are targeted for violence. Northern Thailand and islands better but driving anywhere is a 50/50 life or death exercise, and good luck with the monsoon season (often overlooked) and fitting ANY electrical appliance. Hospitals 'are terrifying' apparently.

Spain - if you like being around expats and a basic lifestyle, great place but if you seek culture, you'll need to speak Spanish and live near Alicante or another city with some kind of multiculturalism. A bleak place when the sun goes in I find. Economy at least has hit bottom and will improving in next few years. Bureaucracy will reduce as Spain wakes up to on-line/electronic payment systems, the siestas will be removed. Its easy now to set up a business, and taxes etc vis a vis rest of Europe will continue to be low. Canaries are popular but many there talk of 'island fever' which means if you cant afford visits back home, you go a little crazy..

Australia is falling into recession, and about 3 years behind Europe in this regard so beware if youre of working age. The currency has fallen badly in the last 5 years so if youre selling up, prepared to be shocked at how expensive houses are in Melb/Syd/Perth. Adelaide your best bet or Gold Coast. And youre unable to buy property for the first few years anyway. Same with Thailand. Long term? Terrific though if you have the cash and better than NZ.

Greece/Cyprus - living costs are astronomical, and your property wont rise in value for a generation. Too much economic turmoil to retire to, and you have the Turks seeking land grabs across the islands, so beware re Rhodes etc.

Southern France - you'll need to speak French, and indicators are that France is heading for an almighty crash - it's pension time bomb has yet to go off and the system is creaking at the seams. Expect demos and riots in Paris but also in immigration-heavy southern towns and cities (Marseilles, Montpellier). Winters aren't warm..

Don't know about Portugal

Wow, thanks for the detailed answers and taking the time to write so much!

The ranking drawn up by the British multinational bank, HSBC, entitled ‘Expat Explorer Survey’, ranks Spain as the third best country to emigrate to. 

 http://www.investinspain.org/icex/cda/controller/interes/0,5464,5322992_6261977_6279071_4654208_0,00.html

 Singapore was number one in terms of EXPAT economics.

In terms of expat experience : 1. Cayman Islands  2. Thailand 3. Spain 4. Singapore

Interesting...

well over the last 30 years i have known 3 people that retired to spain

1 that went to malta

one that went to australia but half way there he asked them to stop the boat so he could get off.
He was back in the uk while his stuff was still on the way to australia.

never singapore, thailand or caymen islands

To answer the origional question seriously.

Spain is still the best.
Jet2.com
Ryanair

English papers and english stuff.

There is no other place that can compete.

As in you cant get a 25 euro 3 hour flight from the caymen islands to manchester airport.
Same with thailand.

Somewhat same with france because the chunnel is pretty pricey and there are many flights to uk but they are no way on a scale with the freeddie laker bus service in the air.

so yes it is and possibly always be no.1 for many reasons that i cant be bothered going into.

 If you have a state pension and hopfully a private pension than coming to live in Spain is really no different now than it was a few years ago. Yes you will get fewer Euros for your pound now than a few years ago.  But you have to remember that the cost of living here is lower than in the UK (yes again it is going up but it is still lower than the UK).  House prices here are falling so now is the time to come over and buy, and if you are looking to come here and live full time now is the time to pick up a bargain.  House price will pick up again in the long run (it is just that no one knows now long the run will be).  If you are looking at buying here and selling later at a profit then look esle where if you are after a fast buck, otherwise come and live in a country that has better weather and a slower way of life than the UK, yes sometimes the red tape can be a pain in the back side but we can live with that (the Spanish do and laugh about it).

So if you are thinking about moving to Spain please do your homework first, but hoping you willl love it here, as many other people do.

Maddiemack-you are right that Camposol has soured my views on living in Spain and I would probably have been happier in a smaller  urbanisation by a decent developer, or a small town, or the port of Mazarron. However the points that I made in my previous post still hold true. Also, Health aspects and missing relatives in the UK are a big factor.To say there are no negatives here is being  unrealistic. Ideally, renting for 2-3 months a  year or having a small holiday property (even though there are still taxes etc) are the best options, as you can just enjoy Spain without the warts and all!.

Thank you for answering my question, campasol, and I think you're right...renting is a good idea, particularly if you only want to spend part of the year in Spain. We will definitely rent for 3/4 months at first before deciding whether we want to spend more time there.  We have thought about buying a place and renting it out whilst we're not in it, but the taxes associated with having a place in Spain as-well-as the taxes on rental payments whether you rent your place or not together with the difficulties some people experience with utility companies have put us off buying a place where we won't be there all the time to sort out any problems.  Also, reading about experiences like your own has helped us just as much as reading about the great experiences that others have. We realise we may decide the place we chose to spend those first few months might not be a place we want to spend the next few months!

Thank you, too, bobaol for that really comprehensive and informative reply.  I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and I shall get my husband to read it, too.  Also, thank you, paulv for the added info.  It's for this type of information and advice that I look at eyeonspain every day!

The only other place we have thought about re spending the winter months is the Caribbean.  We have good friends that have lived on Grenada for the past 7 years and they are never coming back to the UK to live.  We're going to Grenada this year to spend a couple of weeks with them. However, again, it's the long, expensive flights that put us off as we have a very large, close family that we like to see as often as we can.

Why did we chose to buy on Camposol in September last year for our place in the sun.? . Given the "negative comments" posted by someone named "camposol" on this site I would like to give an alternative and fuller view of life on a ex pat urbanisation. A lot of the negative feedback is from people who end up in Spain and now cant sell the house to move back home.... unless they take "a hit" on what some of them had paid. All was well when prices were booming before the crash but now its a buyers market and if you look at websites like  "Rightmove overseas" and search for Murcia,Mazarron, Camposol ,you will see pages of houses . Majority are Detached less than 10 years old and majority have a private pool .  As a couple we have travelled many places all over the world and our view was get a little place abroad and keep one at home. If you are considering Spain think of the following , Red Tape and purchasing proceedure. Not a problem if you go to a good  estate agent ( Try Mercers Camposol) . If you need money we found it best to take a little equity out of our UK home and go as a cash buyer . The Spanish banks are a nightmare if you need to borrow dont bother. But you must have a Spanish account which you can open free of charge. We graduly transferred Saving and cash until we had enough to complete the sale. On the day our agents and the solicitor took us to the Notary we met the sellers as well handed over all the dosh and were given the keys. Solicitors arranged electic and water in place no problem.  It helps if you can learn the language and why not if as a nation we complain about people who dont learn English but come to live in the uk .

The main benefit of an Expat community is that "help is always available" but you can also have the Spanish way of live in places like Mazarron just 15 minutes away. Not everyone is the same but we like Camposol . You will find lots and lots of smiling people around this place none of who pass you without saving Ola. This place has many nationalities including Spanish,Irish, Dutch, German in fact from every corner of Europe and beyond . 3000 British live here full time and enjoy a lifestlye many would envy. The social scene is wide spread and varied and its not everyones cup of tea but you need to try it you can either join in or not . Rent for a couple of weeks and this might help make you mind up . A  rough summary of what Camposol has to offer is as follows:- Two Commercial Centres within 400 yards of each other. Here you can find.  English speaking at most places, 4 Banks with cash points, 5 Estate agents, about a dozen bars,about 20 places to eat , 3 supermarkets, wine store,one DIY Store, one tool hire shop, a Petrol station with car wash,a huge Chinese stope the sells everything, hairdressers, vets, Chemists, Dentists, Doctors, Translation services, Car Hire, yes a Fish & Chip shop,  Butcher shop,. A huge Spanish  Market every thursday, Bowling Alley, and nearby 18 hole Sensol Golf Club, with lovely bar and events on every night, next to this a Sensol 5 Star Hotel with gym and health centre open to the public. Then on top of that a health centre council office where you can sort out tax etc, Next a bus service which passes through 4 times a day. You can find places where a full English Breakfast is 2.5 euros and happy hour all over

Then we have all the local support groups, Gardening groups and clubs and even an English funeral director. Then its down to location, which is why we chose Spain ,.Ferry to Santander or if we like  drive through France , motorway all the way, Cheap flights, Jet2,Ryan Air,Easy Jet only 3 hours to the UK and cheaper that any other transport per mile. Some time shortly a new airport is likely to open at Corvera just 15 minutes away from Camposol which is already well served by Alicante and Murcia.  The danger of buying in the far off resorts is that you are going to spend a lot of time and cost of flights. You can reach Murcia from Uk in 2.5 hours.

Getting to the many lovely beaches of the Costs Calida takes about 15 minutes via a fast motorway where you will see very little traffic.  So this is typical of many places in Spain. Its true Camposol is still a "Work in Progress" as they like to say as the builder went bust and the Council and Residents Groups are making gradual progress to get everything finished off . In fairness this has happend all over world especially in Spain.  So thats it I hope it helps and realise its not for everyone but it fitted what we wanted . One thing you wont find here are your large single groups of stag and hen parties because Camposol is quiet at night . Suitable for older couples and families I would suggest  once main events are over all  all in all a lovely place to consider. This posting is "our opinion" and i hope it helps if you are considering making the move and investing abroad.

Aliton-

where is breakfast sold for 2.5 euros? must try it

where is council office for tax on Camposol-do you mean the business centre?

to get from here to UK is more like 6-8 hours when you consider journey to airport, and other end etc

Bus service is woefully inadequate, no use to those on C and D- if you don't drive it's a big problem. Many do give up driving due to health reasons.

The developer  did not go bust- still building in other parts of Spain; he left us in a mess- have you noticed the problems on Cand D with escrituras, embargoes, unfished roads, subsidence etc-that is not"work inprogress" if if wasn't for the unstinting work of the CRA we would still be in a mess.There is a long way to go before things are put right.

The commercial centres-the state of them leaves much to be desired.

Some have good reason to think they were let down by estate agents when they bought here years ago.

Compared with what it was like when we first moved here, Camposol has obviously got more facilities

Camposol ( Doom and Gloom ! )

ref you comments

Just checked  photoson my mobile... Breakfast "Trevi Bar"  its 3 Euro full english ( sorry 43p out! )  A large one is 3.5 Euro . ** EDITED - Inciting- Against forum rules **.   Yes the CRA  (Camposol Residents Association) is doing a great job and everyone recognises that. ** EDITED - Inciting- Against forum rules **.

Bus service .. sorry it dosnt pass your door .

Building problems in 2% area of the resort.... whats new

I can`t see the point in you continually slagging off your own Community   ...  If you dont like it sell up and go.

This message was last edited by aliton on 08/02/2013.

If only I could......and so say many more!

Aliton-I have  not slagged off Camposol-I am being realistic-You have only just moved here, but you must be aware of the problems . If you think every thing is fine you must be easily pleased.  You seem to underestimate the problems with the developer, particularly on C and D.It's a bit "i'm all right,Jack"

At least Camposol doesn't resort to personal and offensive comments to people who have a different opinion. I am sure her comments are valid and relevant and there is no need to respond to them the way some posters do.

Well Maureen should know better.....

Ive just checked our Tesco Burgers in the fridge......... " And ther`ye Off" .

Findus Lasgne tomorrow probably get "the trotts".  dosnt happen in spain this   .. no bull.

Yes, Poppyseed.  Aliton isn't going to last long on this site telling Camposol in a thinly veiled way to 'get stuffed' and calling her an ignoramus.  I don't find that acceptable and I think the moderators won't either.  It's been nice not having that kind of abusive rubbish lately, so hopefully it will be nipped in the bud.

Camposol...I actually feel very sorry for you. To of retired abroad and feel so at loss after it has not worked out must be gut wrenching. The sheer sadness is evident in your posts BUT I do think it is right that you share what you feel is wrong, because people need to hear it from both sides. Good and bad. We are all different and have different needs and wants, one persons dream, could be anothers nightmare. I really hope you find a solution to your dilemna, so you can feel happy again be it somewhere else in Spain or back in the UK.

It is also good to hear "the other side to Camposol" from Alitons perspective. I had read much on this urb and never realised it was so huge with so many facilities right on the doorstep.

Is Spain still the best option for retirement abroad? It is one of the best, but could slide further down the list along with other European destinations due to the economic crisis and many other social and political factors. Personally I think retiring "anywhere" other than your native homeland in the current climate is far more risky than in previous years, unless you are financially comfortable...and there could be worse to come. EUROPE NEEDS TO PULL ITS SOCKS UP ALL ROUND.

I think Spain will always rank in the top ten of retirement spots no matter what though, due to the brilliant climate, culture, scenery, ease of access and travel, slightly lower crime rate and slightly lower cost of living.