Energy Performance Certificates come to Spain

first of all did baz 1946 really write the previous post, or is it Norman's doing?

I have seen various prices quoted, eg 250 euros plus iva for 100 sq. metres. If it is 4-5 euros per sq metre, plus iva then it will be a hefty price edging towards 1000 for a modest villa.Like the assets reporting law, it has been thrust upon us with indecent haste, even though it has been around since Jan 2013 and no-one knew! Is it a ploy to extract as much money as possible out of us, knwing lots will be fined as they can't get it done in time?

It is now hitting the English free papers here in Spain. Why it has not been publised before is a mystery as it will affect so many people. I wrote to a few papers to try to get this known, but all I got in response was people trying to sell me adverts based on the back of an article which I would have written about a subject most people at the time didn't know anything about. This should have been in the papers a while ago. It's still not been made a law yet, but for cerain sure it will be very soon. The 1st June this year is the date that we have been told it will be made law.

Thye date may change and if it does I will be posting the info on here as soon as I have it, however it is going to happen and it will not just go away. 

chrisinspain-can you tell me why it is priced per sq metre. Surely such things as method heating, insulation etc  will be noted-would they not give a points rating  as to how many energy savings measures one has, or are they looking at whether the form of heating is sufficient for the size of the house?

first of all did baz 1946 really write the previous post, or is it Norman's doing?

The previous post was written by the other person. Normansands.

I only write, answer, post anything under my own name. Baz, i had to add the numbers on because someone else on here got Baz before me.

Someone has already asked me if i was normansands......i wonder if they ask them if they are Baz1946.

I highlighted their words and did the answers.

Just to maybe make the day a little bit lighter....Or perhaps maybe not.

Hi Camposol, the "per square meter" was a guideline for prices and has nothing to do with the certificates apart from that. We have set our own price strucuture which will not be following the x cost per square meter though as it makes the cost of the Certificate prohibitive. I know some assessors have priceing on a pre square meter basis and was asked the price the other day for a 300m2 3 bedroom detached villa. They had been quoted 1500 euros........we were under a third of the price, however it was too far away for us to do.

Our prices are based on type of property ie detached, semi, apartment etc and the number of bedrooms in the property.

And before anybody asks no I wont post a price list, but I will say that I'm in the process of working out some sort of a deal for Eye on Spain members. It's still going to sting, but think mosquito rather than horse fly!!

I need to talk it over with my partner but I am also thinking of working out some type group booking discount for people in the same area. It is going to save us the journey and save the owners a chunk of money so if I can get it worked out it should be good all round.

Dear All,

during my "account review" absence, there were a few suggestions that I had returned under another name or two, amusing but entirely false.

It seems to me that if buying property that exists is thought to be such a public risk, with no surveyors to be trusted with their many disclaimers, then the matter should be insured. He should have professional indemnity insurance to cover his inspection and opinions. Perhaps that could be extended or perhaps it would be better provided by the agency getting high commissions from the sales.

You already have on here a hungry trader taking every opportunity to freely publicise himself and making absurd claims of "superb professionalism" no less.

Why not make the matter truly professional and get the trader to provide insurance guarantee on every property he sells.

He may not be specially trained but he already inspects the property and if he has common sense and experience will have as much chance as any other person to check for deficiency. Even if he had to employ someone with building qualifications and experience, at least that would be useful employment. Whereas I cannot see that these certificates have any use at all.

Given a technically qualified inspection, possibly even professional, then the insurance should be inexpensive, after all insurers provide building insurance for very high values without any inspection whatsoever.

The matter would then be self-policing with no necessity for official involvement.

Surely almost anything is better than this waste of time and money.

Regards

Norman

 Oh what a narrow minded bigot you are normansands, you are so blinkered you put  a race horse to shame.

Critising a qualification you know nothing about for your own bullying self esteem. The EPC survey is non-invasive and some information has to be collected from the owner, some are as clueless as normansands.

EPC are designed to drive up the energy efficiency of a building and reduce energy consuption. The recomendations provided show how it could be done. Going by the huge amount of DIY insulation material in Leroy Merlin(much more than B&Q) it is some thing many Spaniards are interested in doing. While most of the recomendations can be free (due to grants) in UK it will have to be paid for by the individual in Spain.

The price of an EPC is made up of many parts:- time; lodgements costs; travel; equipment; auditing; CPD; indemnity insurance; number of extensions; property type and style; number of storeys etc etc. The only official involvement is people like normansands being fined for non-compliance haha.

Its not just heating systems that are taken in to account, it is AC units as well. The EPC will drive up energy efficiency through building regulations for new builds and older properties will have to catch up. For dinasaurs like normansands, ship up or ship out.

Dear All,

difficult to see what the last post added once the invective and waffle is set aside.

however to quote.....

"EPC are designed to drive up the energy efficiency of a building and reduce energy consuption. The recomendations provided show how it could be done. Going by the huge amount of DIY insulation material in Leroy Merlin(much more than B&Q) it is some thing many Spaniards are interested in doing"

one wonders who the poster thinks is responsible for this????????

the tests haven't started yet!!!!!!

perhaps it is the cost of energy which has been here for some time?????

perhaps it is the green lobby or even Gov. advice and publicity????

perhaps even B & Q might stock and sell more if it wasn't for the UK gov's generosity and the number of freebies they are competing with!!!!!

perhaps our hungry trader has a nom de plume????

Regards

Norman

It doesn't matter one jot if this energy certificate is a waste of time, it matters not if your house gets a low reading, what matters is that Spain says "You have to have one" i could add a maybe because as it's not been passed yet perhaps it's possible it gets thrown out.....Ho Hum.

Whats matters is, if you have to have one, the cost of it, and i for one could care less if a chap came around, charged me 200€, gave me the piece of paper that said the correct wording.....great.

I see no hungry trader, i see a person doing what most do...Making a business out of something that has to be done. 

Lets face it anyway, who can do to much more to improve any Spanish house to conserve heat, to compare it to any other house built anywhere, say in the UK for instance is rubbish, as we all know if you don't have cavity walls and lofts straight away you lose.

 Just had three "Certificado de Eficiencia Energética"  done for my properties this week. Official government authorised inspector from the list provided by the Valencian autonoumous region. The price was €85 plus I.V.A. @ 21%. 1974 construction renovated in 1990 "D" classification. 2005 construction "A" classification. 2010 construction "A" classification. The guy spent 2 hours at the oldest property including drilling holes to check for cavity walls and any insulation (do not know why he bothered as I told him there was no insulation!). The newer villas he just checked the properties log books (from college of architects and aparejador). Checked solar installations, geothermal heat pumps Kw rating etc. 10 minutes at most. They do not even ask for any money until the certificates are registered and customer copies are provided. Great service and price. SPANISH COMPANY DOING THE BEST FOR THEIR CLIENTS! Beware of the scamsters.

Dear I Love Javea

Like yourself i have had many questions regarding this new law and like yourself have found a company that does it for 90 Euros + VAT.

Unfortunately , although done by a acredited surveyor or tecnichal arrquitect , this certificate is nothing like the one that will be requiered by the new law .There is a official registry for certificates, however this is only for off plan homes in the last few years and doesent apply to 99% of existing homes.as the already buit registry hasent been created yet!!!! In addition this 90 Euro certificate is just to inform potential buyesrs/tenants as a bonus if you have a good rating and is apparently not as complete as the official document that will be required ( hence the 90 Euros ) .

I called 7 companies and the 90 Euros one was the only at the price , the rest where around 275-325 for my 104 m2 villa .

The other 6 all told me not get the certificate beforw the law was paased , as it may have changes in its final format ,and if this is the case , you will need a new certificate and will have to pay again.

Also , The law is in a draft stage and has not been approved yet , so according to the Spanish goverment you do not legally need it , The plan is to approve it before the 1st of June , but the previous plan was to approve it before the 1st of January 2013 and that did not happen. Spain is unfortunately the only country in EC that has not got this in place.

My advise to you is that you check with your company that the certificate is valid and demand that if when the law is approved , ( if this ever happens ) that they give you a new certificate at no extra charge . I also assume that they did not inform you that you didnt need the certificate in the first place..This is not illegal but is very unethical.

I am certain that once the law is approved it will all be over the English papers and we will all find out!!!

To everybody concerned about this new law , bear in ming YOU DONT NEED THE CERTIFICATE TILL THE LAW IS APPROVED

LAdy in Javea , i hope my insight has been helpfull

Interesting to say the least. I have repeated several times that at this moment in time you do not need the certificate.As stated previously it looks like it is going to be made law on 1st June this year. 

JohnCarter is corrent, the new EPC that will be required is nothing like the one I love Javea has had done, and they will still need the new cert to sell of rent out their property

I'm happy to pass on any information I find out and will continue to do so if people want the info.  There is so much information floating about and so many different views, but that is what a forum is for.

Hi JohnCarter

Welcome to the forum - It seems this is your first post.

The certificates I obtained are for my own personal information about my properties as I like to be fully informed. If and when the Certificado de Eficiencia Energética does come into force I know that they will be registered and a new certificate will be issued if necessary at no extra cost. All the relevant info has been collected and it will only be a matter of entering it into any new software that will be provided through El Instituto para la Diversificación y el Ahorro de Energía, IDAE.

For me it was money well spent and I have complete confidence in the member of the Spanish College of Architects also RIBA qualified in the UK. 

All I am saying is beware of the scaremongering, go to a fully qualified bonafide professional who is a member of a recognised propfessional body and I am sure you will be well looked after.

The people who can issue the Certificates have to be fully qualified and registered. At the moment only Architects, Technical Architects and Registerd Engineers are able to issue certificates.

There are two date bases which will be used to register the information collected and to use either you have to be registered. One is for commercial property the other is for domestic property. Your name, company, and registration number plus qualifications have to go on each certificate. I'm pretty sure it won't be possible to get a "dodgy" certificate as nobody who can issue them would want to rins losing their accreditation and the possible criminal prosecutuion that would result.

 I googled and this chap turned up 

http://www.homecomforts.es/ENERGY_CERTIFICATES.php

Dear All,

has the certificates been of any use to you????

were the results as expected????

Have you or do you propose to take any actions because of them???

Did you put bricks in your toilet cisterns as once suggested and are they still there????

Are your washing machines set to cold fill only and working only on low temperature washes????

Good advice is one thing, unnecessary bureacracy is another quite different question.

Regards

Norman

 Norman

Certificates not worth diddly squat but WTF. No-one will live long enough to recoup cost of getting better grading! Retrofitting energy efficient products in spanish built properties will never be cost effective. That is unless your lively hood is dependent on conning people into believing they can recoup their investment in future energy savings. 

Dear All,

has the certificates been of any use to you????........Are they out yet then?

were the results as expected????..........Seeing into the future is a wonderful thing.

Have you or do you propose to take any actions because of them???.........What actions? When?

Did you put bricks in your toilet cisterns as once suggested and are they still there????........No need if you buy the adjustable float type.....But a brick is cheaper.

Are your washing machines set to cold fill only and working only on low temperature washes????........You have a hot fill one then?

Good advice is one thing, unnecessary bureacracy is another quite different question........It's called saving the idiots from themselves.......Besides it creates extra Tax and gives a jerk work to do.

Regards

Norman

Chrisinspain-if we don't have to get the certificate until the law is passed what do you make of the statement in" the word" free paper that fines of 200 euros could be implemented for every day from June 1st that you don't have one? can you imagine the rush the day it becomes law?

I read the article and I really don't know where they are getting their info from. I know there will be fines at some point if you dont have the EPC, however I dont know how much, how or when. I suppose the article in the word might as well have said you could face fines or up to 20,000,000 per day.....you could but you wont......