Energy Performance Certificates come to Spain

Dear All,

a recent uk certificate viewed spent most of its pages recommending exterior insulation methods and estimated costs on a 1908 end of terrace solid wall house. The house has yellow stock brickwork in a conservation area where even plastic windows are frowned upon.

It is not easy to see what possible value there is in surveying endless identical properties in this way.

though the cost was £50 with no VAT and the techie' seemed to have an agreement with the estate agent to provide floor plan measurements they could both use.

What will be left for the expensive chartered surveyor to do once all these licensed experts are finished.

It is rather amusing to read full structural surveys listing all the many other specialist surveys that will be required.

All the benefits of unnecessary officials making progress I suppose.

Oh well must go now to break the law and install yet another extra point in my utility room.

Regards

Norman

Hi Norman.  Welcome back into the fold. And stop misbehaving with the electrics.

Re. the EPCs, I think the most important question is: how come they're coming in at four times the price in Spain?  Might the usual little monopolies and price-fixing be being established at the cost of the public? 

And I wonder who's going to police it?  In the UK, my understanding is that a colour copy of an EPC must be given to every potential renter or buyer of your property, even if the person is a time-waster, or they can report you (if they had any idea about this law).  We spend a fortune on colour cartridges.  But, in fact, most people seem to have forgotten about this requirement. 

It will also only be a matter of time, before measures are brought in insisting that people do works to improve the ratings, as is happening in the UK and with some properties it could be nigh on impossible, just because of their age etc.  It will be very interesting to see the kinds of ratings that are given in Spain.  Also, if you only ever rent out your house for the summer months, what relevance would the rating have?  Many houses in Spain are not really habitable in the winter and are only used in the summer...

Thank you,

but I am afraid there is a strong streak of the highwayman in me, I deplore all waste and hate the attitude that all public funds are only there to be plundered.

the culture is that it is different money, almost monopoly or toy money.

Regards

Norman

As it stands no house will fail to get a certificate, badly constructed properties will get a lower rating and everybody who gets a certificate will also get a document giving recommendations on how to improve their rating. The costs involved are being set by the amount we as assessors have to pay. It will impact the whole of the rental market including property that is rented out just for summer lets. I have just come from a meeting with a representative from the Ministry of Energy who are going to be administering this and it looks like because of the fines Spain are facing this is going to be given priority. How they are going to police it remains a bit of a mystery, although the first port of call will be letting agents, property management companies and estate agents. They will also be prowling websites and private ads, but as you can imagine this is going to be an on-going task so how long it's going to take remains to be seen. If you look on our website there is quite a bit of info on there about the certificates. The guy from the Ministry this morning suggested a price of 4 to 5 euros per square meter which is ridiculous. We also said to him that nobody will want to get a certificate if the price is set so high. We as assessors have some flexibility on pricing but to a certain extent our hands are tied. Ultimately the market will dictate the price.

The training process and the qualification you need in Spain to even go on the course is completely different from the UK. For us it's been an expensive and very time consuming process.

I read in the freebie paper The Word, that you could be fined 200 euros for every day, from June 1st, that you do not possess an energy certificate-Can they really do this? Also they quote 295 euros +iva for a 100 sq mtre property. Many are over that. could chrisinspain comment?

I second the request by camposol that chrisinspain let us know if he knows anything about these fines.  Over 7,000 euros a year, if you didn't get around to it?  Honestly, if this is true it's farcical. 

What ever happens in Spain with any certificates of any nature, they want to be better at it then the UK when they brought out those stupid home---whatsit --packs a few years back, you had to have one to sell your house, you had to be in possession of it, it  was against the law not to have one.....But you could refuse to show it if anyone asked, because the government forgot to make it law it had to be shown, their was NO law made to say it had to be given over or seen....

Kinda defeated paying all that money out, having to have one, but that's how it was.

Oh Dear, 

this can't be true!!!!!!

surely you did not just move there for the sun..............it was the laid-back care-free lifestyle with all regs ignored that really attracted you, wasn't it????

plus of course all those wonderful friendly people revelling in their various corruptions that really drew you????

is there no "complaint form" you can demand????

wouldn't it be easier to just pay a 10% haircut and carry on as before.

anyway the yanks are convinced it will implode very soon

Good luck

Norman

Ok just got back in from work and have seen the questions.

Firstly as from the 1st June this year any house currently offered for sale or rent will need an EPC, as will all houses currently rented out.

From 1st June people have 7 days to show they have applied for their certificate if their house is for sale or rent.  If they have applied within the 7 days they then have a further 21 days giving a total of 28 days to get their certificate.

How this is going to be policed I don't know, but all the Certificates I do have to be entered on line directly into the Regional Energy Authorites data base, so maybe there is a clue there?

There will be fines for people who don't bother but as to what they are I don't have a clue. When selling your house if the certificate is not included with all of the other paperwork at the notary the house sale will not go through and as an added bonus you could also get a fine taken directly out of the proceeds of the sale when it does go through once you have your certificate in place..

The thing they brought out in the UK was HIP's Home Information Packs . They were scrapped as they were useless. The only part that was kept was the Energy Performave Certificates. If you go on to a Uk estate agents website you should be able to see or download the EPC for any property you look at either for rent of for sale.

The cost of an EPC in Spain will start at 250 euros but will be quite a bit more for a larger property. The cost guide given(which you will be pleased to know I have ignored) was 4 to 5 euros per square meter!  Assessors from the UK cannot assess or issue certificates in Spain, the types of properties are different and as you can imagine the regs are different.

Spain did not want to bring this in but had no choice as it is an EU law and Spain was looking at some hefty fines if they did as normal and ignored it.

There has also been an article printed in todays Costa Blanca News about the EPC's in Spain

Lastly don't shoot the messenger, and if anybody is interested there is more info on my website.

How this is going to be policed I don't know, but all the Certificates I do have to be entered on line directly into the Regional Energy Authorites data base, so maybe there is a clue there?

Chris.

It might not have to be policed, as you said you cant sell your house without one and the notary could fine you on the day you do sell / sign up..........Maybe if in three years time you decide to sell and have no certificate, the fine gets back dated to the 1st June 2013....sounds harsh, but who knows.

True, policing the sales side is probably going to be fairly easy, it's the rental side I'm not sure about

True, policing the sales side is probably going to be fairly easy, it's the rental side I'm not sure about

Might work the same as the sales, they leave you alone until such times you decide to sell.

All sounds to harsh and cruel to be true,  but what do they have to lose, "You should have got one"  they only have to say years down the line.

Very true, the owness is on the you to have one

So what is the energy performanvce rating of adobe walls then ?  I should imagine quite good .

I  rummaged & found something  myself.

"Adobebricks,far from being an osolete construction material with poor insulating properties,are

So that's an A for me then ! 

If these timescales are to be adhered to, the assessors will be so rushed off their feet that they will never be able to conduct all the inspections in time.  If that is the case, the renter or seller would then have to pay whatever fines exist, even if they are not to blame for the inspections not having been done.  I wonder where you find all these assessors anyway?  And, I certainly don't want to shoot you down, chrisinspain, as you're our main source of information here.  Thanks for all the info.

I would think that there is going to have to be some type of "running in " period. It will not be practical for this to happen overnight. It has only just started hitting the English press so it would be impossible to sort out.

Please remember though that Technical Architects, Architects and registered engineers can issue the certificates, and there are lots around, that is without the people who have done specific training just for this

 In the UK the policing of EPCs was to be done by the local trading standard department then in Scotland the responsibility was past to other departments. None have the skills or time to do it. They are still chasing their a*se  about horsemeat so no chance of checking EPCs. 

HIPS are still in Scotland but called Home Report. (EPC, basic survey and some property information). I think dictator Salmond must have friends who are chartered surveyors. Nobody else wants them.

As chrisinspain mentions, lots of people will be qualified to issue them. The issuing authority will have some kind of auditing programme to ensure a high standard of work. Those that have done specific training and make a living from it may end up with more experiance and deliver a better service to the property owner than say an architect. In the UK I have come across several chartered surveyors who missed out obvious cavity wall insulation for example.

Dear All,

I wish someone could advise what possible use such things could be?????

what hidden secrets of poor construction will they reveal????

what is the dastardly vendor and his agent hiding????

It rather seems to me to be something of a sick joke.

did the unwitting purchaser or renter not know he was getting a tent or a shed and not a mansion???

Help.

Regards

Norman

Dear All,

I wish someone could advise what possible use such things could be?????.........They are their to let the buyer know they are getting a house with no cavity wall insulation, because as of yet no one in Spain knows what a cavity is..tooth excluded... No triple glazed windows...because this ain't Sweden...No underfloor heating...Why not? because it's mostly hot in Spain anyway...No loft insulation...Why not?...No lofts, yet.

what hidden secrets of poor construction will they reveal????.....Absolutely none, why not? because poor construction doesn't exist in Spain...How can it....When every place is built the same poor way..... What is there to compare with.

what is the dastardly vendor and his agent hiding????......Noisy neighbours who the Vendor says only come out once in a blue moon...from Russia....leaking pool...That is "A-bit short only because of the exceptionally hot weather of late"......Damp walls...Which the elderly Grannie is covering up by sitting on the sofa......Lovely garage and new dining room...."Of course we got the licence...it's in the post"   The agent hides nothing, they only speak French to a Spanish buyer...German to a Brit....Broken  African Dutch to everything and everyone they don't understand.......until the offer comes forth....Now they speak 10 languages 

It rather seems to me to be something of a sick joke.......Not if you were selling "Must have or else'" for 500€ a pop.

did the unwitting purchaser or renter not know he was getting a tent or a shed and not a mansion???......None so blind as those that cant see.......Cant see the wood for the tree's.

Help.

Regards

Norman