What would happen if UK "bailed out" of the EU after 40 years of membership. ?

Lots of talk about the Government re-negotiating our terms of membership prior to any Referendum . But what would it mean for those who enjoy the freedom EEC membership has given to British citizens members of the EU since 1973 and EEC since 1993.   If we left the EU/EEC thats 40 years and half a lifetime for most people and I would like the views of those who changed their lifes on the basis of free movement and emigrated abroad or travelled almost unrestricted .. 

What effect will it have on our relationship with countries like Spain if we vote to leave.  ??? 

Personally I cannot bear to think of the effect of the stupidity of the British, or in reality English, voters if they decided to leave. It needs to be said that the "norm" of a 30% turnout to change the status quo should be invalid whatever the result. There is,and has always been in recent decades, a concentration on the "Daily Mail" approach, with far too little truth and validity to the "debate" for joe public to be able to make a qualititative decision. We can only hope that a more truthful and honest approach becomes the norm if and when (hopefully never!) this rabid lot get re-elected in 2015. All three parties (I discount the current loons known as UKIP) should grasp the nettle of a solid and honest debate with all factors (good and bad) being brought forth. The 1975 vote was valid as far as it went. Times change; everything changes, certainly over  nealy 40 years. Decisions should be made on the basis of the General Election. It is not in the nature of UK democracy to suffer "instant??" reference to a disinterested and often ill-advised and non-informed electorate for a plebiscite. The right-wing press predominates in the UK. This needs to change to be a more balanced and truthful, unjaundiced style. And no tits on any page please!

As to the result of leaving - who knows. England, and I specify that little frozen, wind-swept, uneducated ill governed crowded ghastly country, is not particularly liked or welcomed throughout the world. Its history provides the major cause of that. Foreign investors who have come to UK to benefit from the tax freedom yet giving access to EU trade will certainly depart rapidly to the remaining members of the largest trading bloc in the world. What effect would that have on the jobs of the underpaid, unprotected workers currently hanging on for grim death to the dying elements of what it used to be, pre TBW, is horrifying to consider.

Rant over!

This message was last edited by marcbernard on 13/05/2013.

Just to pick up on one aspect, marcbernard. You make an interesting point about the UK press being predominantly right-wing. When I was a child, the Daily Mirror was our paper, as a Labour household, and it was really good - with some great columnists: I remember reading Paul Foot, Bel Mooney and John PIlger. It just seems literally like a rag now - I like to read all papers, but I don't pick up the Mirror in a café anymore; there's nothing in it. And as you imply, there is something dangerous in a democracy if the media is dominated by one political persuasion. Of course it isn't however, as this media bias is very much balanced out by the left-wing bias of the BBC, for example. But it has made me feel sorry that there isn't one decent left-wing paper anymore - my allegiances have changed and I'm not a slave to what my largely uneducated family of origin believed, but I do like a bit of balance. And as you say, this lack of balance could have consequences in any referendum.

I would deduce from his comments about England that marcbernard is an uneducated foreigner.

Johnzx

I am just responding to insulting comments made by marcbernard.  He is hardly making contributions to the arguments with  comments such as the "stupidity of the British" and the "loons of UKIP".  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want proper discussion on these matters, marcbernard needs to moderate his language. Eggcup, on the other hand, makes some very valid points.

 For the record, I think Obama is right - the UK should try negotiating a better deal before even thinking about a  referendum. This may well be the downfall of Mr. Cameron.

Just so that you know that I am not "uneducated", I have a BSc in Computing and Spanish and MSC in Economics.

This message was last edited by competa on 14/05/2013.

"England, and I specify that little frozen, wind-swept, uneducated ill governed crowded ghastly country, is not particularly liked or welcomed throughout the world."

 This statement is more a reflection of the poster who wrote it!

England but I think you meant to say the U.K is disliked by the E.U in general I think the people of the U.K know that already and that is why they want to exercise their right as a democracy to have a in or out vote.The right to have a democratic  vote  has been taken from the rest of the E.U by Brussels that is why Spain has nearly 7 million unemployed how the hell is the E.U going to find jobs in Spain for almost 7 million unemployed people. 

This message was last edited by windtalker on 14/05/2013.

This message was last edited by windtalker on 14/05/2013.

Competa

                            Just so that you know that I am not "uneducated", I have a BSc in Computing and Spanish and MSC in Economics.

Whilst I 'may' not have the level of education you have, I would hopefully never jump to unfounded conclusions.  I believe Marc is not uneducated, is English and, as such, he was commenting on the English.

But, back to the question:

 "What would happen if UK "bailed out" of the EU after 40 years of membership ? "

From some of the evidence here (from 'highly educated' people) they would probably fall out between themselves, having silly arguments between the various factions as to who is 'more important.'

I don't think it's because the English are not liked, and know they are not liked, windtalker, though you are no doubt correct about that!  I think its more of the money which is spent on the EU and policies invading all aspects of life.  Legislation about border controls, immigration and human rights are too intrusive - some countries do not worry about such things.  How long has it taken the UK to rid itself of Abu Qatada which has cost the UK taxpayer millions (and will continue to cost when he finally leaves as his family are still staying in accommodation paid for by the tax payer).  The Spanish, on the other hand, are now looking into expats' bank accounts for evidence of potential tax avoidance and demolishing houses which have been built  in good faith.  They care nothing about human rights in these cases - even though the Brits have propped up their economy for many years.  British expats are leaving in droves due to what is being seen by some as oppressive practices. The EU is seen by many as being expensive with no benefits.  Aliton has some good points.

No - I meant what I wrote.  I think we are getting off the subject again!  The point is that some countries, like Spain, do not adhere to EU regulations (especially human rights and immigration) whereas the UK do and it costs the UK tax payer money...This is one reason why some people in the UK are anti EU.

What fun to see another rabid diatribe in the vein of some others we have seen occasionally over the years which just goes to demonstrate why the average Englishman wants out of the EU.  Clearly marcbernard has little appreciation of the issues involved leading him to thrust his blatant ignorance and hate of all things English into our faces. Yes, the English are disliked fairly universally, mainly because in an age where most nations were living in backward penury, Britain changed the world, some of us think for the better, but most of us prefer it that way instead of the unedifying spectacle of sucking up to the German superstate like other European nations have to do.  Do we know we are disliked?  Of course we do, and want to keep it that way. Europe as a whole only wants us because of our money, take that away and no one would care if we left.  Are we poorly governed, we sure are, because our politicians want to eventually freeload off the EU themselves, but anyone who thinks that the EU is any better is under the influence of the fairies.  When the time comes, this country will hopefully be free to decide democratically whether it want’s in or out, not on the basis of a few hysterical expats, but on what the majority of British citizens want.  Will this make much different to expats in general, I doubt it, but if it does, tough, you made your decision to leave, we to stay.  Those of us who prefer life on our “frozen little island” and the rule of our own laws away from the corruption and self-interested nations at Europe’s core will soldier on as we always have, laughing up our sleeves at the poor foreigners over the other side of the English channel

M.

Competa

Just to put you right, I specified English rather than British, as John correctly said. For your information I was educated in one of the finest grammar schools in England but am of Celtic stock. .

Eggcup

Do you remember the Daily Herald. It transmogrified in the ghastly Sun. How things are changed over the years! In fact no red top is now worth its price, and I would not consider its purchase. This includes the Daily HateMaI. If only the Brits were more discerning, they might learn something of real politik.

I have been out all day, so have only just returned to the forum.

I await more stoned being overturned!

Xetog

I missed your post due to crossing. No comment.

Why are people worried about the UK's contribution to the EU costing 60million a day ? Interest on the UK debt is 10x that daily..

I am a bit confused.  What is the argument for throwing away £60m per day just because the interest on our debts is greater?  You speak as though this sum is a  mere drop in the ocean, yet we could do so much for the needy with that sum or, horror of horrors, put it towards paying off our debts.

M.

The key beneficiaries' of the EU (and in particular the Eurozone) are of course the Germans.

If it is so good why isn't Switzerland a member?

The euro is crippling all the southern countries.

The sooner I get my vote (which I have waited over 40 years for), the better. As for any difference after leaving, NONE.

The EU will continue doing business with the UK.

Hello Jarvi.

Yes Switzerland is not a member but if the EU is so bad why has no country  left it. ?? The Euro is a different matter though and yes I dont think the Uk will ever go down that route.   Like many people I would like to know what will change apart from Trading . How will this effect the free moment of tourists and other points like medical cover abroad and the right to work in other countries.  Its not all one way trafic and brits do go abroad to work in places like Spain France Germany ..  I fear everyone is running scared because of Council elections where ONLY 35%- 40% voted.

It will be interesting to see how UKIP get on in the European elections next June - traditionally they do well, so watch this space! The freedom of movement between the UK and Europe  is certainly very important - and for those of us who have money tied up in Spain it is a real concern....

The sooner I get my vote (which I have waited over 40 years for), the better. As for any difference after leaving, NONE.

There would be massive changes that will affect not only ex-pats, but everyone in the UK almost immediately.

The UK is not likely (or even able) to negotiate the kind of deal Norway or Switzerland has. That is simply not a possibility - for one thing, in Norway's case, they remain subject to the very rules on free movement that the likes of UKIP object most to. So, even if the rest of the EU would agree to it, the xenophobes in the UK would not.

So, it is in, or 100% out.

What that means is that all UK citizens living abroad would lose that right to remain. Indeed, UKIP have stated they would expel EU Citizens who live and work in the UK. Nice. People who have invested there, bought houses there and paid taxes there. Kicked out. Forcibly. This is what UKIP really means. Kicked out because they are "foreign".

Just as an EU Citizen would lose any right to live in the UK, the reverse would apply. UK Citizens resident in the EU (there are around 2 million of them), would lose their rights to remain also. Forced back to the UK. No homes there. No jobs there. Expelled.

I do not think they would be very happy, either. Neither would UK taxpayers who would have to house them (unless Nigel has refugee camps lined up). He'd need them. If anyone thinks this is unlikely, ask yourself - your citizens have been expelled. You no longer have any obligation to UK Ctizens. Natonal pride alone would demand reciprocation in kind.

And.. to those UK citizens in the UK, your little island is now a prison. You cannot just relocate to anywhere else in Europe, and the US, Canada and Australia have ultra-strict immigration controls. You're stuck there. Your children are stuck there. No right to live anywhere else, but within the UK. Forever - because count on one thing, the rest of the EU will never let you back in again.

This is not even to go into the application of customs controls between the UK and the EU, which will kill UK industry and result in an economic decline unseen in living memory. Again, it is sheer arrogance and crass stupidity on the part of the little Englanders to believe that "the EU needs us more than we need them". Wrong. No, they don't. If they really are foolish enough to bring this on their heads, they'll find that out, but then it will be too late.

Unfortunately, the popular press in the UK has been fighting an anti-EU propaganda war for years, frequently relying on myths, inventions and distortions that have no relation to the truth or the realities of the situation.

Even on simple matters, the true facts are rarely reported. One advantage that the UK has right now is that most "home grown" agricultural produce there is grown and harvested by those pesky "immigrants". At very low cost. I personally know one very large farmer in Norfolk who relies almost 100% on these workers to stay in business. Why? Because he can't even get "British" workers interested! They don't want to know! Instead he employs over 400 mostly Eastern European workers. They work hard, and are - he says - very reliable. They'll work 7 days a week if necessary,  Out in all weathers. They would all have to leave... even if "British" workers suddenly did decide they'd be happy growing carrots and beet,  which is unlikely, the costs would escalate enormously. Food prices in Britain would go through the roof.  Supplies would crash. Imports from the EU? Don't count on it...