Home demolished in Vera

I have signed the petition this is a terrible situation to be in

I hope you are succesful in getting justice

Rod

www.ournextholiday.co.uk

 Dear All,

all very well but unless you accept that all natives of Spain know and accept the system they live under and are therefore collectively guilty for it, how can you expect it to change? The will to change must surely come from within and that will never come whilst the villains are feted by the community and re-elected.

as a victim of the mad and bad planning laws in the UK, described by Sir Digby Jones as an abomination, I find the "straightforward" rustic land law in Spain understandable.

So who knew that law was being abused by the development, I would suggest everyone, repeat everyone in the locality most especially the developer, lawyers and all the staff involved. Probably the whole adult population.

It seems that only the innocents pay in Spain.

Regards

Norman

And I'll be the second....welcome back Norman. I agree with what you say.

It would be interesting to hear from Spanish people living in the village rather than write off the whole community....... are you saying the Spanish residents were happy to see innocent people deprived of their home? Do you know these people and the village concerned Norman?

I would hope that the devastating effects from corruption and political games of this nature will encourage the Spanish people to embrace a more civilised system - we need to work together to effect reform, not allienate by bold generalisations. 

 Dear All,

we can all hope for a change in the Spanish character but people far wiser than I and much better experienced have told this forum that we hope in vain.

It seems to me that evidence to date suggests that outside interference will be resisted at all costs.

I love the story of Robin Hood doing it all for the poor but long ago ceased to believe it.

Isn't it true that the whole world loves a swashbuckling rogue and is prepared to forgive him everything (almost).

Generalisations are uncomfortable because they are generally true don't you think.

Regards

Norman

What is your SOLUTION Norman?

p.s. I think your observation "Isn't it true that the whole world loves a swashbuckling rogue and is prepared to forgive him everything (almost). " is a fanciful perspective that in these circumstances is certainly not applicable. We are talking about peoples' everyday lives here not some pantomime.

I tend to consider generalisations are divisive and serve little purpose when trying to establish solutions.

 Dear All,

perhaps there is no quick fix and in time Maria's changes from within will prevail?

I watched the demolition with shock of course but was struck by the compliance of all concerned.

Would it have been the same had it been a Spanish family home?

Where were the local populace and their cars to block the machines progress?

Why was no one pulling the driver from the cab?

Why no sit downs in front of the tracks?

Where were all those involved in the grant of planning and the sale of plots?

How could the officials and lawyers stand by and do nothing?

Why did no one even take the little man working the levers to task?

It seemed almost like it was staged, don't you think?

I rather doubt that hot air on this forum will succeed any better than the Vicky case.

But of course I live in hope like everyone else.

Regards

Norman

Norman, as expats we tend to focus on the Priors' unfortunate case but there have been other demolitions which have mainly affected Spanish families.

Those don't get reported so much in the UK press.

Justin

 Thanks Justin,

but that only makes the acceptance all the more surprising, I bet they would not dare do it to Techno.

Norman

 A house was demolised in Cartama in June 2004, the owners were a young Spanish Family , neighbours and friends with their cars  blocked the entrance on the Day that the demolition was due to take place , 4th June ,(and consequently got fines for obstructing the course of justice )  it worked for that day , but in the early hours of June 7th 2004 ,5.45 a.m. with no notification a dozen or so Police (with guns ) and the bulldozer arrived ! and nothing could stop them ! It was heartbreaking, and to top it all the other 9 houses on this illegal urbanisation are still standing and the parcel of land where the House was demolished now has two wooden houses on it ??? Something is not right 

Hi Janny

Sounds about par for the course!

How many illegal builds are there in Spain?  Hundreds of thousands I would wager. 

I don't know what will happen, but I do know that any more adverse publicity in the British press will only make the Spanish property market much worse.

When the UK press did an (accurate) exposé on all of the illegal builds in the Albox area, that was when things started turning sour.

I repeat - all this was done with the tacit approval of the town halls - how could they NOT have seen buildings going up on rustica land???  It remains to be seen how many more mayors will be having their collars felt by the Guardia Civil - lots I hope.

It's not only fish that rot from the head.

Max

when  Spain treats it's own people like that, what chance for innocent ex-pats?. That abuse should have bought riots, protests and what ever action needed from the masses to show that sort of cruel abuse and pig headedness is not acceptable, but it doesn't happen in big enough numbers does it, so the corruption and abuse from those in trusted positions carry's on. Same old story sadly, but part of the package if you want to live in Spain I guess?

 Dear All,

amazing, would they have shot the family in their beds if they had resisted?

Even the Nazis did not shoot there own.

where is the wonderful Spanish character in all this?

That is worse than the nasty bullies who post here.

Totally shocking.

Perhaps we are too soft to be in the EU?

Regards

Norman

Isn't Spain in the EU?............ well now we know that the EU can do little without the evidence to prove that innocent civilians are unprotected in Spain against a corrupt system, without evidence of an inept justice administration system that fails to apply the rule of law, without evidence of citizens being used as pawns in a power struggle between the old and new school, where corruption and greed were sadly allowed to overwhelm what we all hoped would be a more civilised and caring society.

Everyone that have any moral conscience should be signing and supporting Keith's petition (www.bankguaranteesinspain.com) and any other petition that brings to light the abuse, so that the irrefutable evidence can be gathered and presented to those who can no longer turn a blind eye to some very uncomfortable truths.

 Hi all,

Max our house and  eight others are built on Rustic Land and you can actually see them from the Town Hall - Carriageway - railway etc. etc. why didnt they stop us from building !!! Ridiculous ...

And Norman I think they would have shot them in their beds it was awfull and so scary !!!

And goodstitch no not enough people come forward to attend the Marches or meetings , they bury their head in the sand thinking that if they keep quiet they wont get a demolition order ...... think again people !!

Something has to be sorted sooner rather than later 

But I do love living here in Cartama .......

 Dear All,

turning agricultural land into development land is very big business and even when no money changes hands is basically totally corrupt since it is based on "grace and favour" and some sort of lobbying pressure.

But my understanding of Spain's rustic development position is that given that you have sufficient such land and are going to use it for agricultural purposes you can build a single dwelling per land allocation.

So what is Janny doing building a multiple dwelling development and not producing agricultural produce, is she/he flouting the planning laws deliberately?

How can you sympathise with someone who does that?

The Priors case was one of fraudulent deception by agents, lawyers and officials and deserves every sympathy.

What exactly is Ads trying to do? Overturn Spain's valid and sensible Planning laws?

It seems to me that the Junta should prevail, the victims suitably compensated and the fraudsters jailed.

Quite straightforward really.

I am confused again.

Regards

Norman

Norman

Right - it is like this.  Many people bought illegal builds from crooked estate agents as the deals seemed to good to be true (they were!).

The land was worthless before the builders turned up.

Thus there was a huge profit for all concerned and it was doubles-all-round.

The people who are paid to protect the innocent - or partially innocent - or just plain daft sat at their desks in their town halls collecting their gratuities from the promotors and 'doing a Nelson'....."I see no new builds Hardy".

I personally agree with the planning laws (known as the 'Ley del Suelo, 2002" if my memory serves me correctly) which are very similar to our Green Belt legislation that thumper Prescott tried to stamp over - but I digress.

The blame lies squarely at the doors of the local authorities.  They ALL knew what was going on, but the wife needed a new Mercedes, the kids orthodontic work, the yacht a repaint.  You know - the essentials.

The Junta don't appear to give two hoots about the innocents caught up in their power struggle against the local /regional authorities, neither do they appear willing to provide resources to address the ever growing queues of innocents seeking justice. Case wins count for little if no monies are returned as per successful judgements at the end of the day. Neither does it assist those who have lost their homes while the political games are played out, nor those who have lost their life's savings whilst the fraudsters asset strip.

Do you see any sign of a compensation fund? Do you hear of any plans to make preparation for such? Please tell me where you expect any compensation to come from? Do you see any signs of the abusers being made truly accountable for their fraudulent dealings?

No, evidence has to be acquired as soon as possible to make those ultimately responsible for all this fiasco accountable.

 Dear All,

what makes something common knowledge?

I have been many times accused, on here, of being an idiot who left his brains on the plane when I trusted agents and lawyers in my proposed Spanish property purchase.

Surely, they say, you knew that corruption is the norm in Spain.

Well no I did not, but I certainly do now. There you have it.

CORRUPTION IS THE NORM IN SPAIN

Max knows it and explains it telling us that there are hundreds of thousands of illegal builds and why they are built and bought.

Perhaps even Justin explains it in "Spain Uncut"?

So if common knowledge is not evidence then what is?

What more possible evidence does Ads require?

How can we help him?

I just want my money back to start over with my new knowledge.

Regards

Norman