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Hi Tony mal . 
I  have just read the report and comments from your August  meetings in Spain  . I  have just returned from 2 weeks in the Balearics which proved very informative . Many influential people from the mainland holiday there  .  
 I do not wish to insult you but  I do think you have just been fed  a load of bull . 

Hi, martin and I have just got back from Spain.  Decided to go no where near Jumilia or Cabo Roig (one place has all our money, the other we have a contract to purchase on - too painful at the moment to visit either - actually quite sickening).  We went inland to Xalon Valley (35 minutes from Denia/Javea on the Coast).  Been here many times and wish to god I could turn the clock back 3 1/2 years!  The reason for the post is simply to say that the continual comments made running down the coast (and those who choose to purchase there rather than SADM) is just ridiculous .  We went into at least five or six beautiful inland towns (very similar to Jumilia) and all were struggling severely.  Local businesses were closing down, independent Estate Agents were closing down left right and centre, restraunts virtually empty in peak season.  It was tragic for the locals and ex-pats alike who own businesses there.   In Javea/Denia/Moraira/Calpe you could hardly move for holiday makers, restaurants were full  in comparison!   We read articles in the CBN that rental prices are at an all time low (even on the coast )and this despite cutting the prices.. We rented a gorgeous villa for £200 for the week normally £500 in August.  What Im saying, poorly, is that coast al resorts but particularly inland is suffering as they rely on the spanish as well as europeans to for trade.  Its a countrywide  recession not just on the coast!   

There are many many of us who didnt purchase on SADM to live there but as an occasional holiday destination and for me most importantly, a rental income.  Without all its major facilities in place what kind of rent would you get now?  I loved SADMs location, but wanted the facilities to be able to earn from it.  Ive copied Tonys report and faxed it to my Lawyer for an opinion on its  contents and its summary.  I would dearly have loved SADM to go ahead with the total package they sold to me but nothing less.  I want my money safe first and foremost.  No more pipe dreams.

Sal

As always, you speak sense Sal, my feelings are the same
Vic

For what it is worth, my thoughts on instances such as the administration of these companies are that there will be much gossip, many allegations, many reports, many observations from those claiming to be "in the know".  All are more than likely to have some element of fact in them, however, there are those who will believe whatever they may be told, irrespective of the person or persons telling them have a vested interest, because it is what they want to happen. Much like the saleman who replies to a question with what he believes you want to hear.
Unfortunately, such people then disregard as complete rubbish and other comments and observations which people may make. Sure, have an opinion and maybe state it, but don't just believe all that is told by what is in effect the "opposition". 
Thank goodness that the clock is ticking down on the time that the administrators will be reporting, then some facts will be available, which like it or not, ALL will have to believe.

To GAL, sorry that the thread is not yet back on track, but the above does not relate to any specific development.

Thanks Sal and Martin

Hi All,
I am not engaging in speculation, navel gazing nor snipping. The count down has begun and we will all find out soon enough what is going to happen.  I hope it turns out well for all of you and that everyones stress is decreased.  

I am going back to watching the Olympics.

All the best
Tony R17 18

I'm not sure whether this is on topic, however I know that water, or the lack of it, has been brought up as an issue on this thread.

We are living in the centre of Jumilla and yesterday the water went off in the morning and wasn't restored until after 10pm.  We immediately assumed that this was proving the point  , however our neighbours reassured us that although there was a problem they expected it to be resolved later, which was in fact the case.

This morning we had coffee with a friend, who is trying to improve her English while we try to improve our Spanish, and asked her about the water situation.  She assured us  that Jumilla has subterranean sources and sends water elsewhere, and that there aren't usually problems although obviously nobody knows what the future holds.  Yesterday there was a break, which has now been repaired.  

Even in the UK, if we have a dry summer we have hosepipe bans and  appoint a Minister of the Drought!

I don't think we should be complacent, however this is a report from people living in the town who have no hidden agenda.  Make of it what you will!

Sue

That is superb news. Is your friend a professionally qualified water resources person, or a water engineer, or maybe, it is just an opinion of a lay person.
Should we all believe the local over the experts?
Wonder if people would do the same if their life depended on it.
Heart bypass. Listen to the specialist or the person living down the road.
Maybe worth you informing the Town Hall of the results of your friend's research and not to waste money on expert surveys.
Does your friend also say that the water supply is sufficient to supply a further 10,000 dwellings, hotel, shops and golf facilities?
Pleeease, I have stated before, when people listen to the unqualified on specialist topics, is it any wonder that selling agents got away with what they have for so long (no, no need to use a solicitor?
This is proof enough that despite what qualified experts report on as a result of their research, many will just believe what they want to.



This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/22/2008.

Hi Suemac,
           it was good of you to post the opinions of a Native resident of Jumilla who obviously will have a better understanding of the local situation than those that write reports from a distance with little or no local knowledge thanks for this positive  posting and as for those that like to pour scorn on others please not all of us are like that . 
brianmags

As I said, This is proof enough that despite what qualified experts report on as a result of their research, many will just believe what they want to.
Thanks for that wonderful example.
Why do people bother to study, when there is always a local who may know better.


This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/22/2008.

I wasn't claiming that my friend was an expert, however I was interested in sounding her out, as in a small town it is amazing how much people will pick up on the grapevine.  As I said, she has no hidden agenda, and was giving her opinion based on local knowledge.

Sue

No problem with that Sue, just find it odd that some believe what they want to irrespective of facts.
It is the same as asking a villager in any area of UK if there will be sufficient water for the County in 10 years time.
Such matters are not guess work.
What if the same person said that SADM properties and all facilities and services would be completed by SJ in 24 months max. Would that be believed?

Hi All,
it often amazes me how experts lack common sense or miss things that are common knowledge to local people. I think that many enviromental groups know that  local knowlege is not be scoffed at but respected.  

Suemac made a very polite and helpfull posting, which was like a breath of fresh air and did not warant the comments made.

We have now been informed severall times that water is not an issue by different sources and I do not think that we should ignore local knowledge or people.

(  As for bypass surgery well advances in invasive cardiology and radiology have made changes and will continue to do so be it,  Stents, IABP,LVAD,ECMO etc, welcome to critical care)

All the best
I want my House and for you all to have your too
Tony r17 18

Hi

I posted a really long message, but then thought, why am i so bothered anymore...so i changed it....to this!!

Sue mac says......water is amply available through sub terranean sources and is even supplied to others from this supply.  So the locals have some reason to be cheerfull.  Thanks for the info Sue.....any more is welcome.

Sub terranean sources are water tables and are usually known as wells when tapped as a resource.  Listen to the evidence please, its not a magical source of water, its not a modern day miracle....its a medeival water supply.  It means you can't dam a river of freshwater anymore.

If you cant store water above ground in 2008 and have to take it from the water table below ground, you have a shortage.

If you then supply this from your water table to other places, they have a shortage also, so its a wider problem.

Come on people, wake up.......you are seeing things that you want to see.  If you hear of local knowledge saying things like this, its evidence of a problem......not something to rejoice in......can you see the emperor naked or clothed?

I dont know much about heart bypasses or eco warriors or local mayors and politics.  I can see the end of my nose though.

Brian

This message was last edited by briando55 on 8/22/2008.

Hi Briando,
Water is extracted from below London by  breweries ( artisian wells?)and I believe that Buxton extract water from a sping, bottles it and sells it.
Natural underground supplies of water is not so medieval, it is something that we still use in the UK.

I have some knowledge of water tables,water cycle and enviromental issues including pollution, changes in waterways and ecological system.

As for the future, well I would have more confidence in predictions on changes in rain patterns and amounts if they could just get the weather forcast  for a few days ahead right. For now I think I will go with the local knowledge and opinion and try to stop "singing in the rain..."  as i walk to the shops getting soaked.


All the best to you

Tony

This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/22/2008.

Hi Tony

Yes water is extracted from below ground in barnsley too......if you look at the name of my local football club ground its called oakwell.....the clue is in the 'well'.   Its what the medeival people used as a water supply.....perhaps you didnt understand me the first time.

Water tables are very straight forward things, they rise and fall with the supply of rainwater.  We dont take our water from these sources anymore, we have enough technology to do this above ground and satisfy our needs.  Why am i saying this, you know about water tables dont you?

The sources of natural springs are similar to water tables but not the same.  Think of it as an underground river where water 'leaks' into the earth, filters through all the minerals, hits a hard surface and cant drain through and then the pressure forces it back to the surface at a point of leakage.  The pressure can sometimes come from really really deep and be heated by the earth...these are geysers or guysers..........maybe you would call them 'geezers', like the Spanish house salesmen.

This usually happens near high mountain type places.......where the altitude and the dew points and clouds combine to produce snow and rain in good quantities.  Why am i saying this though, you know all about buxton water so thats ok, it says so on the bottle.   Guess what, i dont have to look this stuff up on the internet cos i learned all about it already......im pretty well studied.  I also know its spelled artesian and cartesian.....when you mention greek references to water.

If you advocate the source of springwater as an adequate supply of water to a populated region....It only works when you have the above ground water.....you dont get one without the other.     doh

 

 

Can't help thinking that the water supply issue is the least of our problems right now . Future water supply , renewable energy sources , gas, oil reserves, climate change, credit crunch , economic recession etc are all global problems right now and if you read the expert reports the opinions vary greatly . I am sure many areas get over the water problem with desalination  plants and other technology . Just my view but I think right now it is  the least of our problems a red herring  . Who knows what the future holds things can change so quickly  , these are very uncertain times worldwide in both environmental and economic terms .  I think it's just a waiting game now what ever  outcome you want . Any way  good luck to all.  JA

Hi JA

I have no idea what you are saying there.......im not interested in global issues when i think of my investment.  I am now interested in what has become local politics and power struggles.  

If someone says a load of bunkem about water tables to support a cause it just tells me that they will say anything to get what they want, the truth is incidental.

Its a bit like the way SJ themselves talk....................load of rubbish.

I would say i want my money back JA........but its not up to me, its up to those really nice Spanish people who are so good at running a business i have to listen to this crap.  

Maybe im in need of critical care now.................i hope they know more about it than they do about water supplies.

Hi Briando 
You may not be interested in global issues but they will influence your investment .
My thinks you may have missed my point .  These things will influence the process along with the facts and credibility  of  SJs  actions   . The transparency and legality of the financial dealings of  SJ  is all  that will matter . Only the judge will decide from the info provided from the administration. All we can do is afford ourselves the safeguard of a good and really  forceful legal representative . 
My point is that the speculation about water supply at this point in the game is not productive and a waste of  our time . 
If  SADM is not built and SJ go completely bust what difference does the long term supply of water matter to any of us. 
Not a jot !  that is my point. lets discuss what matters now and not waste our time on red herrings that the IWMH people want to discuss. JA


This message was last edited by julie anne on 8/23/2008.

This message was last edited by julie anne on 8/23/2008.

Ahhh, so another thing proved here is that if you ask a question and refer to a matter (Heart Surgery), which is a matter Tony has heard a little of, he will respond. 
Ask questions on matters he claims to have knowledeg of, but tends to be hearsay or spin and no replies.
This thread certainly proves that some believe what they want to hear.
If this is a typical example of overseas purchasers, yeah, well, one does wonder.

Regarding the advances in invasive cardiology and radiology, it is much like the scenario of SADM. You have the goods (the expertise) you have the patient (or purchaser), the technology and sciences are there (equipment and personnel), it is just the cock-up of the provider (NHS and SJ) who mis-manage, waste money and run out of funds, do not have the management to forecast requirements, yet many thousand go to them and believe all is told by them.