Help please re urbanisation rule liability

The following is an excerpt from an update from the agent we are "purchasing through". "Negotiations with a consortium of four major banks are continuing, the purpose of these negotiations is to secure a €30 million line of credit in order to continue the development of this resort. €30 million is the projected amount required to bring to completion all sold properties, complete the golf course and other retail and leisure areas. A more recent development is that statements of interest have been received from three large construction companies and discussions are ongoing with San Jose looking at selling a percentage of the development. This will of course provide capital to continue with the project quickly and in due course recover some of the time lost. I have been advised by the directors of San Jose that the administrators will be contacting all purchasers of properties at Santa Ana during October formally advising purchasers of their options." I have been assured by the directors of San Jose that, before the administrators contact purchasers, a proposal will be in place; this proposal will include new completion dates and compensation for clients." After everything that has gone on, we are now in the IWMMB brigade. Fingers crossed you get what you want, whatever that may be.

This message was last edited by Jon G on 9/7/2008.

This message was last edited by Jon G on 9/7/2008.

Well if the selling agent and Directors of SJ have said it ,it must be true.

So "€30 million line of credit" is required. That is subject to suppliers, sub-contractors, plant suppliers, all still being prepared to supply to completion, as the €30 million is a line of credit required, not the cost to complete.
Assume 2,500 properties at 150,000€ each, that is a total of €375m and that is exclude the golf course and remainder of the facilities. 

Our local council has just completed a new canal harbour development in the next town from me in Scotland. Not a huge development some offices ,flats and a restaurant  cost £20 million. 30 mill therefore doesn't seem enough to me how far would that go.Is this the amount required to pay bad debts ,pay for the licences ,restart SADM or surely not the full amount required to finish work .None of this adds up I would imagine SJ and HdT would need far more than this amount.I also think if they had secured finance  or were close to securing they would be shouting it from the roof tops to restore customers faith in the company.I wish I could make sense of all of these theories that are being banded around but I simply can't.

Julie Anne...............you are absolutely right............the selling agent needs to give firm evidence of their facts and source, or be taken to court for generally being idiots

Blimey, you think that you are providing some genuine information which might be of interest and all you get is sarcastic comments ! As for the cost of a house, €150,000 is way over what is needed to build a house - I am a building surveyor and know something about these thing, but I agree that you can't get anywhere like 2500 houses and a golf course, or 2 (??) for this, but I don't know the value of the work that has been done. However, you'll all be glad to know that I won't bother next time and I guess as its unlikely we'll ever be neighbours I'll bid you an "adios amigos".

Julie, the difference is that it is not 30m that is needed to finish the development, it is a credit facility of 30m which they are probably seeking. Which would then allow them to juggle with the existing purchasers who want their houses which would raise an income, and those new purchasers (another miracle, are there any out there at present?).
The final cost, excluding the golf, shops, clubs, etc., would be at least 10 times the 30m

My guess is that there are still a lot of people who want their houses but they dont come onto this site because of the flack they get . 

Jon G your comments are very valid and are certainly very much appreciated and we do thank you for that.

Chrissie

John G, regarding the construction cost I gave of 150K, which was based on prices quoted being from a little over 100K up to 600K, as a guidnace, as one has to start somewhere.
As a building surveyor, you will know that a property with a sale price of 600K, could not be constructed when all costs are included for 150K
You will be aware that in addition to construction costs of the units, you also have the 2 golf courses, the hotel to construct and all the infrastructure. That is of course in addition to the Building Licence fees, land acquisition costs (which are considerable), fundings costs, legal costs, overheads,  etc., etc. 
Perhaps taking into consideration the above, you may wish to give us your guidance of what the construction cost would be (in Spain that is), for a 3 bed, 2 bath villa.
Would also be interested to hear if you, as a building surveyor, have come across, especially in recent times, where a developer has been able to achieve a fixed price on materials, for a 3 year period, with no get-out or break clauses.
If you don't know of the development, or what work has been done, take a look at the photographs and come back to us all with your thoughts.



This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 9/7/2008.

John G don't get down hearted it is only Julie Anne's way of venting her frustations at the shoddy way she has been in fact all of us have been dealt with by San Jose.                       I will name names of SJ emploees.

I live in one of thier properties and this is a building they are trying to sell
 I will give you an example of their customer care
Some 5 weeks ago whilst my husband was showering the bathroom light started to smoke,flicker then went out completely so as offices underneath usnow empty
 as imstructed I visited the show house at playa golf there were 5 staff in there at the time and one set of clients who were picking up thier keys.
As Diana was busy I spoke to a young man who 1st tried to give me a bulb then told me they don't have electricians anymore but he would send someone round to look

I waited a week then emailed Pilar at orihuela she told me I had to go to Playa Golf to get it sorted so I rang again,  Antonio took the call he would sort it out but Diana was on holiday so he was alone it would take a shorttime

Week 3 phoned Diana who said she would send an electrician REMEMBER
 i am washing,showering etc without a light all this time I have to plug in a badside light to put my contact lenses in so I can see to type this

Week 4 another call oh yes Antonio was dealing with it so in despartion Dave with torch in mouth cleans off the wires which had shorted AND hallaluh we had light. We did not attempt this before as we wrongly thought SJ would be coming SOOOOOON !!!

Week 5 I am in the shower the light goes out yet again 
I am still waiting this is how SJ treat "paying customers" yes I know it is only 60 euros a month for electricity & water but my basic human rights are not evne being met 

SAAN JOSE I have lost faith in you,  you have lost my business ,
whatever you offer me now will not compensate if this is how you treat your own property up for sale 


This message was last edited by auntielinda on 9/8/2008.

Hi Guys,
        you seem to think that it is alright to be abusive about people here briando55, FIN, JA and your cohorts you DONT BOTHER ME BUT I WILL say again  this is a public forum and you should be more responcible. you are the ones that are a rogueish eleiment. because any time anyone puts on a positive posting you try and rubbish it even when the sources are independant and nothing to do with SARC. What you seem to forget SARC was formed for the purpose of continuing the build if possible and just becuase it may succedd you feel the need to be abusive others shame on you all.  not a nice person amongst you all.
Brianmags 
YES I WANT MY HOUSE

and i will be happy if you get you money back as I wont have to have you as neibourghs

Tony

What agents?  who are they and who signed the letter?

What are you going on about?  Are you saying that San Jose can produce contracts and  sell properties on the sites you are telling us about?

This is an absolute revelation, they are trading in the property market and are writing contracts for properties, dont you see what this means Tony......everything is fine now.....i really did wake up in the shower and its 5 years ago and nothing has happened.

All we need Tony is the name and contact address of the agent, the date of the letter and we can all use this as evidence that everything is ok.  Then we can all either have our house or our money back.

Send this to the papers, take it to your soilictors..Tony has solved the case, clueso has won....woopy doo....

Are they trying to flog properties illegaly though?...is that possible?...the old sell to the wet weather patsies again?  in that case you have a duty to report this activity to us and to the authorities.......which is it to be Tony?

GIVE THE NAME AND CONTACT ADDRESS OF THE AGENT AND LETS GET ON WITH IT.......OR ARE YOU TELLING PORKIES?

Brian

Hi Briando,
I was forwarded the letter and feel that it would be wrong for me to disclose the name etc of the agent,although I believe it would be acceptable for one of the clients to do so,( perhaps Jon G  who originally disclosed it)It would be wrong for me to subject them to the abuse that is dished out to people who give any positive info.

I suggest that you are very carefull about making any suggestion that questions my integrity, as I am not adverse to taking legal action if I  believe that I am being slandered.


I WANT MY HOUSE
Tony R17 18

Tony

Your integrity allows you to know the contents of this letter are printed in both the press and this forum but you are not able to place the source of the information on here.

I have a real concern now and i am not being in any way humerous.

The things you have printed and copied, in your name and in sarcs name, are in my view in contravention to the administration that the builder is undergoing.

If you dont disclose the source of this information now, you are allowing malpractice to continue.

If you have integrity, place the source of the information on here now...................what is the problem, is it a secret?

Or is it a lie or mis-information.  You have no right to mislead people in this way and then hide behind the comments you make.

If the information is not true and you have not reported the matter to the proper authorities this does indeed require legal action.

Yours sincerely.....................Brian

Hi auntielinda 
I am so sorry you are being treated so badly by SJ although it does not surprise me , in fact nothing they do surprises me anymore.You are dead right when you say I am just venting my frustration at the way I  and others have been treated by SJ although with me ,I am afraid it is worse than that I am livid ,furious,appalled and disgusted at the lies I and my first lawyer have been told by them . Even when asked direct questions which were very specific I now know they lied through their teeth on many different occasions over 5yrs. I can not forgive this blatant dishonesty .I really do not understand and fear for anyone who could trust or put any faith in them  ever again.I never will and fear their current web of lies will do great damage to others not just financially but in terms of even more disappointment  , emotional turmoil , self loathing  and guilt for putting ones self and families in this situation .How are some on the forum going to feel if things go badly and they have put their trust in SJ not  only once but twice. SJ will never know the extent of the real damage the have caused to our lives .I am usually a forgiving person but I can not forgive SJ or anyone else who may be giving ,no pushing false hope in the faces of those who have been harmed enough and I place SARC firmly in this category intentionally or not. 

John G of course it is good of you to share info and most of the angry comments were aimed at the content of the info not at you for sharing it .I am sure you are a very nice person and shared with the very best intention. However I am afraid many on the forum especially me can no longer appreciate or tolerate any info that comes from SJ or agents  I meant no personal offence to you  JA

As the full letter, rather than just excerpts, has now been posted, I guess there is no harm in saying that this information has come to me from Ward & Co - I originally purchased through Smart Investor Services, but either the name has changed or they have taken them over. What their relationship is with SJ I don't know. As its good news - allegedly, then there can be no harm in everyone knowing. At least this now gives you all something else to chew over ??

Thanks Jon G

Is it a recent letter please?  within the last few months, whats the date please?

Also would you be kind enough to let us know the contact details for Ward and Co.  website etc, if you would prefer you can send me a personal message or e mail. (website below)

I think you need to consider checking the details of the sales claims they make and reporting this to the authorities Jon, its a very serious offence if its true.

Thanks
Brian

Hi John G 
Are you able to confirm if it was youself that shared the letter with SARC ,  or the leaders of SARC Tonymal or Brianmags. I am just curious as they tried to pass it off as specific information they had gathered themselves from SJ and  the administration during the month of August.This detail also matters to me as throughout this saga , 5 yrs for me , One of the SJ tactics was to issue a standard letter of info which was made avaliable to Agents ,Lawyers angry customers ,residents etc.Throughout the years these letters turned out to be no more than pacifiers and the info false.I have at least 6 of these letters collected over the years .I now know the information in them was untrue and misleading.This is why I ask as for the detail .If we ask SARC we will be here all night and none the wiser. Thanks for sharing .Cheers JA


This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/8/2008.

This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/8/2008.

Hi JA we didnt say it was from us but from a member and dont even go there we wont disclose which or who it was so dont pick on John G it wasn't from him that is all i will say and ir was dated last week
Brianmags