General Assembly

Went to community assembly yesterday and wasn´t impressed. Given budget which looked a little extravegant at nearly 4 mill euros.

Separated into 4 areas basically

1 Jardines below bar

2. Jardines above bar

3 Naranjos jardines 1-6 and penthouses 8-16

4. Naranjos jardines 7 & 8 and penthouses 1-7

Monthly dues jardines 110 - 130E penthouses 70-90E

Jan-March due at end of March so paid 3 monthly

They also want payment for last year at a reduced rate 20-40E from month after completion

Said fees were high because we havent enough neighbours yet! But when asked PW rep said they contribute for unsold apts but dont think management co understood that.

Lots more but dont have my notes with me.

Meeting developed into a farce with stupid questions to management co like where are our orange trees? Are we paying for workers laying aroung sleeping(during siesta?). Questions which were not for that forum discussing the budget.

Barry

Hi Barney

Can't quite follow this as there seems to be different amounts quoted, as in other threads the amount of 80 - 100 euros for jardine penthouses ,do all the 2 bed Jardines not pay the same . I presume the this is all done on floor area as per the info received from the notary , we all have a percentage amount stated in the documentation received.

Must say well done to all those that attended , it all sounds a bit confusing to say the least.

Steve & Sandy

Hi Steve & Sandy

I think you are getting confused. The prices quoted were 80 -110 for 2 bed Jardine apartments,   100 - 130 for 3 bed Jardine apartments and 70 - 90 for the penthouses

Barry you should have gone to the morning session for the Jardines, cos apparantley that was much more fun, only lasted 41/2 to 5 hours.  People asking about grouting and all sorts.   At least the orange trees should have been provided for "Naranjos"

Hi  All

Can someone help me out here as im a bit confused? It seems that people will be paying different amounts for the same apartments ,is that correct? .We were always told by PW that the rates would be approx. 70.00 for a three bed ground floor now it looks like you could be paying between  100-130. Why would some 3 beds be dearer than others? They all have the same floor space and have the same services.

Many thanks

Kev

If your property forms part of a block of properties then the proportion of fees that you pay varies & is linked to the coefficient % that is detailed in your escritura.

Also, if you have a private garden to your property you pay for that & no one else in your block contributes.

Our coefficient value is 0.15% & we pay 64.06 euros per month. The other 15 properties pay between 77 & 80 euros for the duplexes & 50 & 52 euros for the 1st & 2nd floor apartments.

In our case we have 16 apartments, 8 on each side (back to back) which includes a 2 storey duplex on each corner. Another variation on the charges is due to the fact that the duplexes do not have to pay for the lighting on the stairs whereas all other 12 apartments do - even the ground floor ones who do not use the lighting on the stairs!

It is all down to the Horizontal Property Law!!

Noreen

Hi all,

      Like Kev below when we went out on our inspection trip we were told that the community charges would be between 65 -75 euro's for a ground floor 3 bed apt, so we're a bit shocked to hear that it could be 100 -130 euro's a month. Are these figures nailed on or at the next meeting can objections be made as it is a bit steep. Hope it's right also that for last year it's only 20 -40 euro's backdated.

                                                Chris.

Hi everyone

Just back from Condado and I did attend the meeting for Jardines.  Firstly it took a matter of minutes to fill the small room they had provided for the meeting as I think they did expect the amount of perople that turned up, mainly bcause they didn't tell anyone !!!  However the word did filter out.  They had to quickly prepare a bigger room for the numbers that turned out and basically the meeting totally ended in a shambles.  The Spanish did a great job on behalf of us all and were very animated and forceful in respect of the issues.  It was a very frustating meeting with people constantly interupting and asking questions about insignificant issues and Barry was right it just wasn't the forum for discussing individuals issues and moans.

I don't think people understand the importance of this meeting and the setting of the community charges.  The management company are suggesting between 100 and 130 euros a month for the 3 bed ground floor apartments, however when we asked the question, well how much are you intending to take from our bank account the answer was 130 euros and it will start in March and 3 months will be taken 390 euros!!!  Also they are intending to back date like Barry said until a month after you completed and they will start to take the backdating amount in April at 2 months each time.  So in April they intend to take two months, in our case 260 euros, the same in May, the same in June, July will be 3 months etc.

These figures are likely to cause many people financial difficulties and some of the people at the meeting were extremely worried for their future as they are trying to make ends meet on pensions etc. and with the bad exchange rate this is a major blow.

The meeting was being "chaired" by 4 representatives from the management company (not Polaris) and I think the polite way to put it is that they were cannon fodder!!!  they were not of a strong enough personality to handle the meeting and when the Spanish got started they completely lost the meeting.  The President of Polaris, yes him off the advert!!, then came into the meeting and tried to rescue the management company and the meeting.  He agreed that it was not they way to run a meeting and the fact that we should have been provided with the necessary documentation and the "proposed" accounts for 2009 at least 2 weeks before the meeting.  They basically put the "proposed" estimated accounts for 2009 up on a screen and expected people just to agree them and not ask questions.  Just to give you an example and one thing that stood out a mile and people jumped all over it was a figure of over 188k euros a year to maintain the TV ariel system !! that figure actuall came out a hell of a lot more than the security firm it was farcical.

I could go on for ages as the meetings lasted hours but what was plain to see we need to elect Presidents and vice Presidents for each Jardin and Penthouses etc and then the main President and Vice President overall andthe most important thing is that either the President or the Vice President MUST be spanish speaking and live permanently on Condado otherwise we will get nowhere.  They is a guy living on Jardines 1 and is doing a lot of research on our behalf and will be sending out information as he gets it, if you want the information he is asking for you to send your e-mail address to him, he is from Venezuela and spanish speaking and also speaks English.  He is called Sergio and has previous experience of being President of a similar set up in Venezuela, Sergio cannot state strongly enough how important this issue is and that we need to be on board and that action needs to be taken as a matter of urgency hence why I have been asked to put it on the forum.  Sergio's e-mail address is sergiof1955@yahoo.com

Hi Jackie

Thanks for the email address of Sergio.  Is he putting himself forward for president or vice?  Just one thing about your figures,  the back payments are only 20-40 euros,  this was made clear at the Naranjos meeting. 

Hi Cuz

We were not given that information about the back charges in our meeting, that's very interesting. Maybe after the kicking they got in the first meeting they had a re-think.  Was anything agreed in your meeting as we just failed to agree on anything and there is a rumour that they agreed to the communtity charges in the meeting after ours????

hi guys,

not liking the sound of this, was not able to attend, as i am battling with the credit crunch uk side, but this appears to be going in the same direction as the La Torre experience?? where the residents were being ripped off with over inflated maintenance fees!! and had to get their own companies in so they had complete control of their budgets. The Spanish authority's appear to have a very put up or shut up attitude!! and dont seem to want to hear from anyone that might challenge them? any compromising is just not in their vocabulary

I just hope our never give up British attitude wins the day!! and fair charging of maintenance fees prevail?? are we really expected to just lay down and accept whatever unfairness were faced with??

best regards pete n ange

I seem to recall seeing the law firm (headed up by the bloke who owns the resort management co which has been appointed by PW) advertised in one of the Polaris 'In' magazines.  This leads me to think that their is some connection between PW and the bloke running the company.  ie they are already aquaint with each other!!!  Not just a co-incidence that this is the co 'selected' by PW to run the show on our 'behalf' ????????...............

Hi Jackie

I attended both meetings and I'm not surprised that most of the info we got in the second meeting, wasn't given in the first as they hardly had chance with it decending into chaos.

We were told that the charges will be taken as you say but 2008 charges are only 20 - 40 euros. They will email everyone with the budget figures, as they should have done in the first place. How they thought they could get any agreement on a budget that you only see for the first time at the meeting is beyond me. Anyway everyone will get an email, they say, with the budget figures and two dates for another meeting which you will be asked which is your most convenient.

Mart

Gosh Mart you must have staying power we only stuck it for 4 1/2 hours and then I must admit I was getting so annoyed with certain people in the audience constantly interupting and whinging about stupid things, I obviously couldn't tell all what the Spanish were asking as it was going too fast but I could certainly hear the crap some of the English were coming out with and it was embarrasing at times.  Don't get me wrong some people made some excellent points and put them across in a professional manner but some...........  I better not say it !!!

 Arlene, you will be absolutely right!  I posted something on a different thread about our experience in UK dealing with a community and mgmt company....so far this has gone according to exactly how UK has gone......it should also be pointed out that the mgmt company won't want to bite the hand that feeds it....and that is Polaris .....remarkably similar to George WImpey and a company called CPM in the UK ;)   

And if it continues as per our experience, some tenacious person will go through the budget and find that the office junior did it using best guesses and ultra conservatism and we will pay over the odds and accumulate a massive surplus account that then causes different problems later :)

Oh well....its unfortunately one of those situations where we are reliant on the people living on CdA and I trust them to have all our interests at heart - I haven't seen anything contrary to that on any related thread

Hi all

What happens at Mar Menor, La Torre etc?

If their management is up and running , i am sure what we are all experiencing now they did to in the early days.

What can we learn from them?  Can we copy their proposals/ costings/savings?

Is there anyone we can contact?

I am sure (I hope) that the service company have deliberately quoted high expecting us to complain and then agree to a much lower figure and we will all be happy.  I wont be suprised if they come back quoting 70 - 80 euros, everyone thinks we won the battle but i feel we will have lost the war. Personally i feel 50 euros is fair, its the figure i was told and was expecting to pay.

Agree with the comments made about the need to be represented by Spaniards.

Should be fun!!!!!!

It might be an idea if some of you nip over to the other main forum dealing with Polaris World  and take a look at the debate raging over the fees for La Torre.

I have an apartment on la Torre which is much bigger than the 2 bed upstairs I bought on Jardines. For this I am paying 93 euros a month - and some people on la Torre are still quibbling

There is also a dispute between the La Torre Community and Polaris, whereby the community are refusing to pay something in the region of 1.5 million euros to Polaris because they (PW) were charging nearly double the market rate for gardening and other services.

Another interesting development early on in the life of La Torre was the dismissal of the initial administrator - a company called Admiburgos. It seems that they refused to pay some of PWs inflated invoices, and so were unceremoniously kicked out by the 'President' of the community - a Polaris employee who was elected as president at a 'community' meeting held just before any of the properties were handed over - so PW literally owned the lot! 

Once they'd got rid of Admiburgos, PW brought in their pet administrator - a company called Adfinsur - which resulted in a shambolic 6 months or so where no-one knew how much they would be paying from one month to the next. 

Eventually, the owners got together and formed the La Torre Owners Association and, guided by people from the original administrator, Admiburgos, we launched a challenge to the status quo. We called our own AGMs and managed to oust the PW employee and elect genuine owners as president, vice president, and committee members. It took a lot of hard work, with people canvassing owners for their proxy votes, organising meetings etc.

The handover from Adfinsur back to Admiburgos was a shambles. Records went  missing, Direct Debits were not claimed and communication was terrible because Admiburgos didn't know who half the owners were. It's taken almost a year to get things straightened out again, so I'd think more than twice before suggesting that we try doing the same thing and switch administrators here at Condado  

At the moment, PW probably still own a large number of unsold properties on the Condado resort, so this gives them considerable voting power when it comes to the AGM ( or AGMs if the organisation of Condado is to be anything like La Torre, where the resort is divided up into over 100 mini-communities, who all then send a representative to the Resort-wide AGM). If we owners want to have a say in the running of our resort, then we will need to organise ourselves in the same way that La Torre owners did. We will need to find out who is willing to stand for the president(s)  roles and get people to assign their proxy votes to their preferred candidate. This is a monumental task in itself as I don't think that the Spanish Data Protection laws allow the administrator to tell anybody who anybody else is - so it's all got to be done from scratch. It's going to be a fun job for someone! 

Finally, for those of you complaining about TV, I suggest that you look at the La Torre thread dealing with that topic. Lots of us La Torreans paid 400 euros up front for a Polaris digibox on the promise that it was a one-off charge and that thereafter, all basic free-to-air TV channels would be just that - FREE. Now they're talking about slapping an 11euros a month charge on TV users, and threatening to cut us off if we don't pay.  Once again, the La Torre committee has challenged them on this, and negotiations are under way.  

The sooner we organise Condado, the better

PB

Hi All

Peter

You make perfect sense to me in your appraisal of the situation, the problem for most of us is, we don’t have the experience or understanding to know how we should proceed or the ability needed to urgently progress this issue.

However as far as my experiences with PW are concerned in the way Sales and Customer Services Departments have conducted themselves, my experiences give me no faith in the management company they have appointed. The logical thing would be to give them a chance but I fear they have already started showing their true colours with the over inflated costing they have provided and also the feedback from other PW resorts being less than glowing. On a resort the size of ours costs should be less than smaller resorts not more, even at this stage. I do hope that on Condado we have people capable and willing to take up the mantel sooner rather than later and ensure we have a reputable management company and management team to run the community and ensure we have a 5 star, well run resort to be proud of.  If any such people make themselves known, I for one will be giving my support in any way I am able.

Jackie

I also would like to know more about Sergio, about his level of interest, intentions, experience and expertise?

Regards

Philip Mather

Have read the thread but may have missed something. Who are the management company ???

Hi Poor Golfer

The management company are RPM who have been appointed by PW to run the community and set our budget so setting the monthly amount you will pay, they had the first AGM last week but didn’t thing it relevant to inform all owners. It may be helpful for you to read the content of the thread below also.

Regards

Phil

www.eyeonspain.com/Secure/MsgBrdsPosts.aspx?thread=14295&dev=C139&name=CondadodeAlhama

As the only full time resident on Los Naranjos Jardine 8, I intend to stand as a garden representative and do what I can to reduce the budget, at least for my garden. I have a few ideas and would like to hear from other residents, to see what we can do to get this budget reduced, as well as dealing with all the other frustrating problems of missing services, the right to consumer choice by installing satellite etc.

Mel Beasley

Tel: 634 168 285