Urban Conservation Entity

Got a letter from Roda re this, with a committee due to be elected in the town Hall. Its asking for a voting proxy.

Does anyone know what its about. It seems to be referring to costs of running the whole complex. I cant get the english link to work on the website

www.eeuuconservacionrodagolf.com

http://www.roda-golf.iowners.net

Hi Ray ,

If you e-mail  a Mr Peter Beard the President on Phase 1, He has more details about what you are stating

One thing  I would say is as owners we should seek independent Legal advice and not to rush and let Roda hand over the Community to the Residents without that reinsurance first,

 If it looks like they want to hand over for 2010 its not a lot of time to vote etc ?

What do I no  , it could be a small thing only, speak to Peter , I ve not got Peters e-mail but Housing must have it

Regards

 i could not get the english translation up either

Ray - can you post a summary of this please once you speak to Peter??.....better than us all battering down his door!

If you copy and paste the first sentence of the page into google, you will be able to find a translated version.  In essence it seems that they want the management and construction??? of the resort to be handed over to the residents committees?  This doesn't seem right  to me (I mean lost in translation) and I would certainly follow Jored's advice.

I'd suggest you have a quick look at the pesupuesto figures as well to make sure they've got their commas in the right places. The gardening bill looks huge. Remember the golf course is public so it should pay its' own bills.

The figures are a joke, commas all over the place and the total comes from adding up what? See highlighted figures in red.

?????

I will email housing and see what they say.

The 2009 approved budget was 272.556,20 € so how this has balooned to over a million € is plain silly. Also there is simply not enough breakdown of the cost as per 2009 so we can compare. I too will send an email to the Comunidades asking them to provide like for like costs between the 2 years and explain the hike in costs.

Arun

Just got the actual cost summary in the post. The total is €1,066k of which security is €595k and rubbish collection €334k.

I presume if we approve this we will have to pay our share, ie Roda will no longer be funding this? Is that roughly another €1,000 per property? Will Roda fund the share of non completed properties?

I expected Roda would hand over responsibility for this once the whole development was complete, which obviously at this point is way off.

Not sure what choice if any we have, but any comment/advice would be greatly appreciated.

surely security is not 594,000 euros?

hi

one benefit of controlling your finances is that you can change or cut down in areas which are not needed or too much is being spent on. this could save a lot in fees when you hire your contractors(gardeners,security,etc). be careful you not  taking any of the companys debt on or the responsibilty of the rest of the build.

As I stated In my early post, We need to seek Legal advice but suggest you get in touch with the President of your Phase and see what he or she has to say

I would think with the Security and Rubbish collection charges that a certain New York " Family " has something too do with that

Only joking , but beadso makes a great point and if I am to believe a Post on anther thread Roda owe Euro 19k on just Phase 3B ,

Once all the houses on the Community has all been sold you then become an  "Entidad " and present the papers to the local Council , Normally it  means you vote for 1 President and vp and fees are charged as one and not seperate phases

Them numbers seema tad off to me ???

I just looked at the Gereral Forums and under

DEBTERS WITHOUT A BUDGET

There is some posts regarding our situation, Basically the last thing we want to do is take it on to early

The main problem is that Roda will have lots and lots of votes so we could be railroded into signing, then it will be to late

Scarey stuff

Hi - I emailed Peter the Phase 1 President last week and have not heard back from him.  As others have pointed out the budget addition makes no sense at all.  Surely we should have been consulted about this before this late stage?   As I see it as of December 21 we will have an Entidad - almost a fait accomplis by the developer.

Sandra

Hi Sandra

I think Peter has been away in England for 2 weeks and is due back this week sometime

I will phone him and let him no the worry and ask him to e-mail all Phae 1 owners with the facts and news

Cheers

Hi - thanks for this - but don't worry - the administrators have just emailed me to say that yes there is a mistake in the budget  in the way the figures have been presented and totalled which will be corrected and that the English translation of the byelaws as well as the site will be available very soon either today or tomorrow.  Apparently Roda only supplied the byelaws in Spanish. 

I really would have preferred some sort of informative document about this whole issue from the President well before now so that I can understand exactly what is happening.  I had mentioned to Peter before via email that some sort of newsletter would be great.  For example have a look at the Hacienda Riquelme community web site set up by the Administrators - the have a dedicated website where all meetings are minuted, Presidents write monthly newsletters, etc. etc.  I think I am going to mention this to Housing Communidades as it makes the governance of the community much more open.

Sandra

Dont be rushed or bullied into anything people, particularly accepting responsibility of anything from the developer.

If you don't understand, or agree, or are unsure of the consequences in any way then just vote no until full clarification has been given, this is exactly what I will be doing.

My trust in developer, Roda and administrator has long since disappeared.

Communities have already accepted poor finishes from the developer without realising it so please don't jump into voting for something that you don't understand and could cost more community money. The whole community situation is an expensive mess already without adding to it.

Some more help and guidance from the administration would be helpful (and a first!) rather than just sending out incorrect figures and details that no-one understands but that is too much to expect.

Always remember that the administrator is appointed by the developer so no need to question loyalties!!

All

I have not long since returned from Roda and had the opportunity to discuss this matter with a number of community Presidents and VPs all of who feel we are being pressurised into action. Believe me none of them has any more information or ability to offer advice on this subject than any of us and as such I m sure they would prefer a delay in proceedings, which I think is unlikely given procedures in Spain.
I would however urge all of as individual owners protest most strongly about the timings and request a delay to allow more information to come forward.
At the very least, ensure you pass your proxy to your President or someone who is able to attend the meeting in case in makes a difference.

For info this is the email I sent to Housing and am sure something along similar lines would show our dissent.

Dear Marisol
 
I have just received notification by mail of this proposed meeting and would like to protest in the strongest terms with regard to the following.
 
1. Whilst I accept legal notice in Spain is apparently only 15 days, I believe it is totally unacceptable not to give more notice to owners on such an important issue especially when the documents were signed in San Javier on 5th October 2009 and a budget of over 1 million Euros is proposed. The proposed meeting date just before Christmas is also totally unacceptable especially for the many overseas owners who will be unable to be present and feel unable to use a proxy due to lack of relevant information..
 
2 The information on the website has only just been translated into English BUT not the Statutes which are the most important element for owners to understand. The budget figures were also incorrectly entered and were extremely misleading. I also note the proposed budget has increased by 40% since 2008 with no satisfactory explanation or breakdown or comparisons of the proposed costs.
 
3. All owners have been aware for some time that an Entidad would be formed eventually but have always been advised at community AGMs that it was not yet necessary to contribute and indeed many were given the impression that this would not happen until the resort was complete. It would have been far more sensible to put these matters forward at next years various AGMs.

 
4. Very little notice or information of the formation of the Entidad has been offered to both owners and their communities despite the fact that there was a recent meeting of Presidents and Vice Presidents of the Conjunto. This has not allowed Presidents to seek independent legal advice on behalf of the communities with regard to the rights of owners to accept or decline the proposals put forward and therefore will not feel they are able to represent their owners properly.
 
5. No breakdown of coefficients of participation has been put forward which would show what contribution would be expected from each of the communities, the villas, the undeveloped and uncompleted areas designated for housing and hotel/commercial centre, the sports areas such as the golfcourse and its related facilities, the sports centre.
How then can any owner be expected to vote on a budget that does not explain who contributes and it what proportion. Nor is there any information on the voting structure showing what importance each community or area has in deciding their futures.
 
6. No information has been provided by yourselves to owners advising them of their rights to either question or approve the budget or if they are legally obliged to accept the Entidad as proposed.   
 
I would therefore request that due to the importance and financial impact this has on all owners that the meeting to formalise the acceptance of the Entidad and the proposed budget be delayed until after the community AGMs to allow more time to properly understand the issues involved.
 
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

An excellent summary of the position. I will cut and paste this and send to Marisol and I hope that as many people as possible do likewise before it is too late. Thank you HM for your time and effort in pulling this together.

Hi All

Just to let you know I had a long conversation with Hugh_Man this afternoon and have also written to Housing for confirmation of a telephone conversation I also had with them today. 

As Hugh_man has said - and I urge you too - if you disagree with this send in your proxy by fax or email with an note clearly stating your objections (or agreement).  As I understand matters each owner has 1 vote - regardless of the number of properties they own (which means Roda Golf SL only have one vote) and there is therefore potential to reject this budget.    Again, I am waiting for confirmation of this point.

Kind regards

Sandra