rent 2 buy

Barry210357: I think you are right if there was no bank guarantee. Do you have evidence in writing to show you were transferred to Herrada del Tollo? Regards

willyboy, that's not exactly a helpful comment is it?  Abolex have been providing very good information to people on this forum so I don't see why you should be attacking them!?  Anyway, do you remember why YOU first used this forum??

I think right now any advice is appreciated whilst people consider their options.  These are worrying times and having a go at people who are trying to give advice really doesn't help.

Everyone needs to stick together, look at all the options and be honest with one another.

Justin

Seen letter from SJ saying the main object of the admistration is protect their assets and their clients deposits.   Does this mean the clients with BG or the clients without BG.  I think we should apply to the courts to get SJ to give us all BG which they should have done from the start and the Courts should use the assets SJ have to finance this. This would seem to be a fair way of doing things. Does anyone know how we can send a letter tlo the courts in Spain to ask to consider this.  It looks like SJ are looking after their own assets

 

Margaret and Charlie

Firstly, lets be clear what a Bank Guarantee is.  It is a statement of intent from the Bank holding the funds that should the Developer go into liquidation or go bankrupt the Bank will pay you back your deposit and not San Jose.  So if you have a valid guarantee you shouldn't need to worry about what happens to San Jose.

The obvious reason why most did not recieve a BG is that the Banks thought that their money wasn't safe and also the fact that SJ did not have full licenses or approvals at that stage when the money was paid. 

Therefore, San Jose saying they are attempting to save clients deposits would suggest they are talking about those without BG, and putting this in their letter is an attempt by them to say they care. 

If they did care and they did need the money they could have offered their binstock properties at a much lower level to those purchasing at other sites.  Instead they chose to charge higher prices than what you can buy on the high street on their own developments. 

Finally, regarding a letter to the courts,  by taking the action we are all taking is the necessary step to present this issue to the courts.

I'm not an expert by any means and this is only my take on it, so others can feel free to correct me, we are all here for one purpose.

Kind regards,

Steve. 

Redman Not a correction, just a clarification. Bank guarantees are mandatory and developers must provide them. Banks rely on developer's assets, deposits, etc to back guarantee the bank guarantee. The developer has to pay for this guarantee (5% a year in cases I know) and this is probably why they wouldn't provide it. Its all down to $. Regards

Thanks Martin,

I suppose they won't be able to pay the 25% fine they are now liable for on all moneys held either. 

 

Steve.

I just sent this email out:

Dear...

This email is for those buying a property in Spain from the developer San Jose, such as on the development Santa Ana Del Monte in Jumilla.

As you may already know, San Jose this week applied, voluntarily, for court protection against it's creditors.  They blame the credit crunch and market conditions for their demise.

This now means that anyone who has put a deposit down on an off plan property through San Jose essentially has to join the creditors list to try and get their money returned.

We know most people don't even have bank guarantees so this is particularly worrying for them.

This is going to be a long and complicated process with no guarantees of success.  At this stage we don't yet know the actual state of the finances at San Jose but group action is now called for to try and recover as much as possible from the developer.

Now, we have received many emails from worried people this week in total disbelief that they could lose all their money here.  So, with a couple of contacts of mine we went to see the UK law firm Irwin Mitchell yesterday (www.irwinmitchell.com).  They are a huge company with huge resources and with huge experience in these cases.  We went to see them to see if they could apply their formula to this case.  They have branches in Spain.

They have agreed to hold a meeting next week to explain to people what the situation is, what the options are and what action they propose.

They explained that there are essentially two groups of people here:

1.    Those with bank guarantees may find themselves in an easier position
2.    Those with no bank guarantee may find themselves in a difficult position

They have set a provisional date for a meeting in their offices in Birmingham on Wednesday 21 May 2008.  They need to know how many people would be interested/ are able to attend.

This is a very serious issue and this is a good opportunity to meet other people in the same situation and to ask questions as a group to these lawyers who have been through this before.

You need to register your interest by filling in the form TODAY at:

=> Fill in the form

Even if you can't attend but would be interested in joining in with this group action then please fill in the form TODAY.

=> Fill in the form

Your details are totally confidential and will only be used but Irwin Mitchell lawyers to contact you.

I hope you can attend the meeting.  I am very pleased that this company is willing to take on this case as they know how complicated it is dealing with so many individuals, each with their own unique circumstances.

In the meantime you can also see the discussion about this subject on the general forum on Eye on Spain.

I wish everyone the best of luck with this and if there is anything I or my team can do to help then please just shout.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, we are not getting anything out of this personally.  I am just trying to help as an independent party.  I just wish there could be more we could do to help. 

Best regards

Justin Aldridge
www.eyeonspain.com

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 5/16/2008.

Justin

Thank you for hopefully steering this headless chicken back on a straight course

Sue

CURRENT SITUATION AND NEXT STEPS INTO THE PROCEEDINGS

• As it has appeared published in several newspapers SAN JOSÉ INVERSIONES Y PROYECTOS URBANÍSTICOS, S.A. has just lodged a law suit asking for to be considered as a bankrupt company.

• When a company lodges a lawsuit like this, the corresponding Court must check some compulsory documents. It seems that the referred company has not presented every documents as it is required and that is why the Court has not yet accepted the petition, and has given a time frame of 5 working days to the company to do so.

• Once the company has completed the documents, the Court will order the Bankruptcy by a judicial order called “Auto de declaración de concurso” on which the Court orders (i) appointment of the trustees; (ii) the notification of the bankruptcy in order to communicate the credits to the Court. 

• The notification must be done in the B.O.E. and also in a relevant newspaper of the company´s address, and –if it is necessary- in another relavant newspaper of the place where the company has placed its main economical interests.

• This notification is extremely important because from the last of the referred communications you will only have a timeframe of one month to do so.   

• Note that if you do not communicate your credit before the aforementioned deadline your credit will be damaged.

• After communicating the credits the Trustees must prepare a report to (i) analyse the financial situation of the company; (ii) the reasons why the company falls down into Bankruptcy; (iii) the proposals presented to refloat the company; (iv) clarify the assets of the company to be enforced to make payments; and (v) the list of the creditors, with different categories, according to the origin, the class, etc.

• After being firm the aforementioned report, the proceedings goes into (i) agreement phase if it is possible to refloat it; or (ii) liquidation phase if it is not possible or, if it was previously possible but the Bankrupt has failed the terms of the agreement.

• Agreement phase is to reach an agreement between the creditors and the Bankrupt to reduce the debts or to give the company a schedule of payments, delaying them.

• Liquidation phase is to enforce the assets to obtain money to pay the creditors.

DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

• P.O.A., which must be granted before a public notary and, if it is granted in the UK, translated into Spanish and also apostilled.

• The documents that justifies the payments made to the Bankrupt.

• The “off plan” contract

For more information, please contact Irwin Mitchell Abogados  on
952 857 630 or send an email to spainenquiries@irwinmitchell.com

 

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 5/19/2008.

Maybe im missing something here,   but why is everyone talking about bankruptcy and liquidation, when at the moment they have applied for administration.  My concerns are once everyone decides to go for the throat it could tip them into liquidation.

Why cant we be a little patient and see what the judge thinks.

 

Malc

                              Malc,

                                          Personally i agree that we must not rush, but it will not hurt to prepare the ground as much as possible just in case, which is why i have registered with the lawyers that Justin has provided us with. On that subject i would like to thank Justin and the EOS team for their help and support, it is certainly much appreciated.

                                                                  Ray & Nadine

Malc

My understanding is that in Spain, if the directors of a company allow a company to be declared bankrupt, then they themselves can be made personally liable for the debts.

So, in order to protect themselves, when there doesn't seem to be much hope they file for "concurso" to protect themselves from becoming liable. 

It does seem that San Jose have run into cash flow problems, which is why they have taken this action.

Now, if we were in a booming market and the administrators could sell the project to some other investors to finish it then your comments would ring true.  But, in the current market with so few buyers, no one will take on this huge project. 

Unfortunately in the current market conditions there is little hope than San Jose will come out unscathed so it seems the safest option is to try and recover as much of your money as possible.

That's my understanding of the situation.

Justin

Hi all

having read all the threads on this.  I too am concerned about our own

property at Jumila having spoke our agent I have to agree with Malc, Ray & Nadine and Justin

lets wait and see!! we may, with a rush to claim monies back push SJ over the edge where no one gets

anything, as they will have nothing to give

 

Keith & Gill

our money should be in an escrow account like a trust fund ,  so the bank guarantee's should pay back all monie's paid plus 6% interest . However it is SPAIN we are dealing with.

yes our deposits should be in an escrow account which I thought was the same as in the uk and the definition is:

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Hi

Sorry to pop some ballons but when we were buying off plan and speculating we were effectively giving the developer the capital to develop.  This capital deposited means they can ensure they can develop, borrow and complete.

The notion its in a bank account earning profit wouldnt be true.

We are investing in trust and the developer is proving non trustworthy at present.  My guess is they have applied for administration as a panic measure to protect what they have got, because they have made wrong judgements in their speculation.

In other words i think they have made too many mistakes and are probably guilty of mis management.  In the UK we could look at improper trading, trading while insolvent etc.  If proved by administrators the directors would be liable personaly for debts.

I would like that to be the case and they have lots of money, dream on.

Hi I am also concerned we are all running about like headless chickens not knowing should we register as creditorsand push SJ over the edge or wait and see if they are allowed to continue the build. I understand Justin what you are saying about the state of the property market, however SJ have a captive market in all of us who have paid our deposits and wish to see Santa Ana  completed even if it is in a much smaller scale. Cheers Joanniemac

Hi think about this?

 san jose had more and more customers out of contract and getting ready to claim compensation for the delay in completion of their properties if  they went to court all claims are cancelled and a new company took over (proberly managed by san jose) we would recieve new contracts with new completion dates and save san jose a lot of money or am i just hoping as they do have a lot of money in the parent company and nothing would suprise me

malcolm and linda

Justin which papers were the articles about bankrupcy.

San Jose are Front Page news in the Costa Blanca News plus over half page on page 12.

It only mentions Administration not bankrupcy but the the deadline is Wednesday in order to print.
Nothing in the local Jumilla papers that I can see.

With over 1700 properties sold at Santa Ana del Monte, of which about half are Spanish buyers. Are there any Spanish buyers who read these posts.  If so how do you feel about the situation.

I note that SJ are still promoted on the Jumilla  Town Hall website (www.jumilla.org)  Surely this should be taken off pending any court actions?  This was previously one of the things that gave me confidence, as I naively thought that if the Town Hall were happy to promote this developement, then the licenses were just a matter of time (!!??)