rent 2 buy

Hi, we just read your email and thought that you might want a little bit of encouraging feedback. like you we paid san jose a large deposit in jan 2005 and have not been given a bank gaurantee which is worrying enough for anyone, but the good news is that we contacted martin from abolix and he has sent us an encouraging email stating that as our completion date is well past the time and  we still have a very good claim against san jose we our emailing him a copy of our contract and have asked his company to act for us on the claim. abolix have posted on this site so you should have no problem in contacting him. We ere going to Spain on monday and if there is any new developements we shall keep you informed, they say that patience is a virtue but after three and a half years it dosnt half get trying  good luck keep us informed as you go along.

kindest regards

mike and theresa.

Anyone using PSI should find a new solicitor.  Despite many requests, they have failed to get my bank guarantee from the San Jose shell company even though it is required under Spanish law.  To make matters worse when it came to signing the purchase contract, they said all was ok but shortly after it turned out that San Jose did not have all the building permissions and we all see where that has lead - to a big hole in the ground where our money has gone.

 

Once a company goes into administration or receivership, the only winners are the solicitors.

mb

** EDITED - Please do not post details of others users on a public forum without their permission **

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 5/14/2008.

Sorry  lost the email.

 

Any way, I went through the process at the court with San Jose's lawyer making out I was at fault! Even the judge seemed to find this lawyers comments strange. I now wait, ad wait some more! They have had my money for 6 years now - some £57000 plus interest etc etc.

I have no idea what happens now although my solicitor remains "positve". I remain unconvinced of this - surely we are all good business for the legal people now the housing boom is gone.

Paul

Having been dealing with this co and their lies and deceit for ovewr 6 years please please be realistic if the developer has had your money. My experiences tell me we are a long long way frome seeing, if ever, any money back

sorry Justin but I only posted user names on this page which are all in the public arena anyway. I understand yourconcern though so I wont post again!

 

A

Hi All

No those of us living above the offices have NOT  been contacted by Sj or have been given any more info than all of you in the UK, the only difference is that we are closer to everything and can call on all our respective teams, there are also people from El Pinet & Albertera and they are affected exactly as we are so lots of action going on in La Zenia.

A couple are looking at Playa Golf but it is quite a bit more expensive, don't know as yet what the discount if any due to current situation

I can tell you in the offices below  I have never seen so much action and comings and going as I have this week

I too had a email telling me it would be 2300 euros for representation that from 189 clients is a lot of money for one company unless they pay a specialist lawyer to work on their behalf !!! that could answer the large cost

GAL

This message was last edited by auntielinda on 5/14/2008.

You have to be REALLY careful with group action.  Although it has its benefits it can also have its problems.  We know of a case recently where 50 buyers all went with one lawyer and he lost the case for ALL of them. 

As with choosing ANY lawyer, you must do your research, that's why I was saying don't rush into anything.

1. Are they adequately set up and able to handle such a large number of clients?  They may be enticed by the money at this stage but can they really handle so many clients?

2. What is their experience and track record in similar cases?  Have they experience with dealing with San Jose?

3. Do they have testimonials from previous clients?

4. Is there a collective discount?

So, please be careful.  2300 Euros over 189 clients is over 430,000 Euros.  They would be getting a lot of money (even if they did take someone on just for this) so make sure you ask all the necessary questions.  We've seen this before and people still need to be careful, especially in these worrying times.

If you want me to carry out any searches on any lawyers then please let me know, we have a lot of information on many.

Justin

Well said Justin.  My best friend is Linda Murphy. Lives down in Mijas.  Do you remember what happened to her with her solicitors.  I can tell you it cost her in excess of £95,000 with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

A good friend who is Spanish and an Abagado and lives in Alicante.  She confirms that it is best to go with a lawyer who has many clients as the judge will take more notice.  However, choosing one is a minefield.  They will still take your money regardless.

 I have so little faith in lawyers, especially here in Spain. Whatever happened to those lawyers who, once upon a time,  took cases on a no win no fee basis.

I have decided initially to use Antonio at DWF but only because he seems to have the most people on board but also feel that £225 just to get your name in front of a judge is shameful.  Jobs for the boys.

Am not sure what is involved in presenting before a judge, however our spanish solicitor quoted us on Mon 1160 euros to list us as a creditor despite telling us that it was unlikely a judge would award us anything if San Jose are truly insolvent and due to our sad case he would give us a special price,also know of someone else being quoted 6000 euros by their solicitor, needless to say we now have a new solicitor in Antonio and firmly believe our strength is in numbers.

I also add that those within SAN Jose who have continually lied to us re bank guarantees fro the last 18 months hopefully rot in hell…..

Justin  Is it possible for your techy guys to keep the link to Maria on top of this board ?

Hi all

Just a line to make a few points:

1. Lawyer's fees: In Spain a "no win no fee basis" is not authoriosed by our Professional Schools, but we can do a 50 - 50 situation (i.e. client pays half fees and the other half as a percentage on results). We do this with clients that want this type of deal.

2. Fees amount: Any client can ask their Lawyer / Solicitor what would be the fees to be applied by following the Professional School minimum fees book. In our office we use these rules to ensure our clients get the best rate, and we are happy to provide estimates to anyone requesting so. By doing this, we all know where we stand, and I have never had a client saying some other Lawyer's fees are lower than ours.

3. Group client: Be careful on all going to one Solicitor / Lawyer. Not many Lawyers are familiar with property transactions and only a few are familiar with bankruptcies. Also, as EOS points out, a Lawyer can only handle a number of clients. In fact, we would not be compfortable representing 185 different parties on the same case, as this is like having 185 small cases into one case.

4. Fees quotation: It is a dangerous and very common practice to provide an initial estimate of fees (not in writing) and then increase it along the way, with you ending having to pay a load more than expected. Ask your Lawyers / Solicitors for an estimate in writing to include the following:

a) Estimate for all Lawyers fees until first instance sentence is obtained. It will not be included here any subcase that may happen along the way, or appeals (second instance, Supreme Court, etc) but everything regarding the principal case should be included.

b) Stage payments: Normally 50% to start, and two more payments along the way (for example, 25% when the Creditors meeting happens and 25% when the first Instance is finished and sentence is written).

c) Estimate for third party fees (if necessary). Normally, a Procurador will be needed, and his fees should also be estimated (at least approximately).

Please take this reply as a recommendation from someone that has had to see many abuses from "proffesionals" to foreign clients. Following the above recommendations will avoid many horror stories.

And also remember to take your time and do not rush, as San Jose bankruptcy Court process has not even started yet! Once it starts, it needs to be publicised, and once this is done, you have a month to take part on the case. As an example the JALE bankruptcy (where we represent several clients) timeline has been so far:

28th of Feb: JALE filed bankruptcy application. With San Jose we are at this stage, as application was filed last Friday.

4th of March: Courts processed application and, therefore, bankruptcy started. From this date JALE had to notify all creditors by letter and then publicise the bankruptcy in the official newspaper (BOE)

26th of March: Official publication of the bankruptcy in BOE. From this moment started a one month period for creditors to take part in Court.

 

Good luck to all.

 

 

Linda please dont judge without knowing all the detail. £225 is actually more or less cost and is very little for the chance to get money back.  The cost actually includes the  facilitation of power of attorney that will ne needed and liaison with the judge other than just getting the name of a list as discussed. It is not just a cse of putting someone on a list and without saying too much involves an awful lot more if there is to be a chance of recovering full monies. The ONLY reason more has not been said about the work Antonio will do is that it would not be in the best interests of owners to broadcast it.  Antonio has been execptionally busy trying to set up notaries in cities for ease of access for all and has spent an awful lot of time doing this. He has been working till very late because he is aware of how much needs to be done so quickly. I know he has been working very late as I have too trying to do as much as possible to help as many people as possible.

I appreciate that his company  will get well paid but many clients have bene asked for upto 9000 euros for the same thing so I think this is good value. If you are not happy with the cost then do not pay it is the choice of all. Believe me I have been sent copies of much correspondance

In terms of PSI I imagine the high cost will be because their expertise is in conveyancing not litigation. They will therefore need to outsource this to another person and will need to cover the cost. many of the PSI clients have already signed up with Antonio and I suggest that their perceived 189 may not indeed by 189 after all. If all who have agreed to the process continue then this has more cover

I agree Justin that no-one should jump anywhere without fully understanding the company and the extpertise it can offer. Certainly people do not want to be throwing good money after bad. I also agree that your lawyer on this site seems to have very similar views to Antonio. They  would appear to both have experience in dealing with Spanish building companies who have gone into administration and know the processes and how to wield the most influence. They are commercial lawyers and understand the fine detail of the insolvency acts. That is what you need!

 

Sorry to go on. I obviously cannot guarantee the sucess of this action and I would not want owners to think that I can but I am trying my very hardest to give them as much opportunity as possible. By all means dont join in and I hope you are successful but please do not knock as we are spending hours and hours (as well as doing a day job in my case) trying to help

 

Anna

The only thing I would disagree with is that I think people need to entirely make a decision in a short period of time with whatever information they can gleam as time is really of the essence with this.  Conversations have already taken place and Antonio is already enforcing powers of attorneys to negotiate on behalf of buyers.

Abolex.  Many thanks that info was very useful.

Anna. Many thanks your info is also excellent.  I do greatly appreciate the time and trouble you are taking in this.  I do understand that it is not something you have to do as you have a BG.  I agree Antonio's fees are very good compared to others.

Sometimes it is good to post something that draws a reaction i.e Abolex and yourself.  Its  a funny slant on debate and it quite often produces a lot of info you would not otherwise have had.

dear Willyboy,

do you know what this 225 fee actually includes?

it seems far too cheap to me

regards

I read  what you have just posted and ask you if the fees from here are to be more economical if you have a group of people taking up your offer of services?  If so do you wish to serve a group of people rather than individuals ? 

In the UK we have a thing called a bankruptcy petition where the bankruptcy is brought by the creditor rather than the debtor being in control.

Is there is an option in Spain to do this and is it any good? 

I am wanting to establish if San Jose owns the land upon which the properties were sold, if its lawfull to sell properties without licence, how they managed to trade on these terms and perhaps if there is any liability with the banks.  Are they trading insolvently etc.  What standards are in place for trading, Spain is not a third world country.

In my case where the land (albatera) has no current development for the investors, is there any asset to secure on?

We are here at home in England and are absolutely sick to the stomach.  If they are solvent then they should be investigated for fraud, if insolvent then seize the assets. 

San Jose will lie and cheat and make things last as long as possible, as long as the situation favours them.  They will also dispose of assets and make further profits.

I get the idea we have more chance of getting a result if we make something happen and not play softly with these people.

Pablo from PSI  made a telephone call to me tonight after a concerning email i sent him, not that I am going to listen to him but will enlighten you on his thoughts, he says our best option is to transfer our deposit to a site that is already finished it could cost more but you will get a property completed in about a months time! Option 2 is to put a claim forward to receive any monies placed back which will cost 2300euros in total, will take at least 2-3yrs and you may not get all your money back!  He says you cannot sue San Jose if their assets are frozen which is why they have taken this action, he tells us that they are not bankrupt and still have a boat load of money but cannot continue due to the CREDIT CRUNCH! I dont know if this helps or not but just feel that any info could help us on this sinking ship!

DOES ANYONE HAVE THE ANSWERS?????????????????????

LAND - SANTA ANA

RE: BRIANDO

Not sure if you know but the issue is not water that is a smokescreen by San Jose. I know Harvery ex employee of san jose (he resigned in january when they started selling off fleet and transferring assets to director bank accounts)

The issue of planning is that San Jose do not in fact own the land.

They are involved in a court case with another developer who says he paid the farmer for the land before San Jose expressed an interest. As we know from Playa Golf where escrituras have still not been issued on alot of properties where people are living!, and the same at El pinet - san jose have a tendacy to build, sell, and hope.

This time they have truly f...ked up.

The problem is the climate with Madrid, especially after the bollocking the EEC gave them over land grab and the EEC grant to Sapin that central government in Spain are cracking down on rogue builders of which San Jose is clearly one. They have in effect no friends in high places.

The same happened with Llanera

Firstly, let me reiterate my point below....don't rush into ANYTHING at this point!  As Abolex has stated, the bankruptcy process has not even started yet.

Now, I have been talking to a couple of people today regarding this situation.  They are two estate agents (one a close friend) who both sold many properties at SADM.

One of these guys is a very influential person in the UK with excellent contacts.  Together they are going to be tackling this issue for their clients as they too have been lied to by San Jose for the past few months and are determined to not let their own customers suffer as a result.

They are decent guys and they are currently having meetings with a top UK law firm with branches in Spain who have huge experience in similar matters to these. 

The law firm employs thousands of people so they are well equipped and experienced to deal with this case.

At this stage I can't give any further details until the initial meetings have been concluded.

I will publish more details next week after the meetings have been completed.  These guys are going ahead with this action against San Jose and it could be another option for yourselves to consider if you want to join in.

Remember, don't commit to anything just yet, you need to review all options before deciding how to proceed. 

Justin

If anyone wants a 'second opinion' regarding representative solicitors, I will be happy to forward the details of our in Torrevieja.

Darren & Michelle