Should there be a second referendum?

No rights whatever in the event of no deal across the EU. Only those of third nation status such as USA. The Spanish government MAY grant UK citizens some rights such as medicare but only if it's reciprocated in Britain for their own nationals.

The Spanish government MAY grant UK citizens some rights such as medicare but only if it's reciprocated in Britain for their own nationals.

Thats a strange one for sure mickyfinn because reading all the media about medical care between us and Spain it seems that when any person from the EU has treatment in the UK our NHS is to lazy to send them the invoice, but when we have treatment in Spain, they send it to us and it gets paid, and also as posted on here the UK sends over something like £3.500 per person per year for expats...(Have no idea if any of this is 100% correct or pie in the sky) so would Spain want to lose this amount because no doubt they make a profit on their invoices.

I'm sure bilateral treaties will be forth coming. It's not in anyones interests not to cooperate. However windtalker was asking about peoples rights.

A No Deal Brexit removes them all. So if Mays deal falls in January a second plebicite is essential to avoid the catastrophe of leaving the EU without agreements in place.

Mickyfinn...the article I read today States that voting rights will be removed from UK citizen living in Spain from the 29 March 2019 .WITH OR WITHOUT A BREXIT DEAL ...DO THEY WANT OR MONEY Yes do they want us living in Spain No.​​​​.and to top it off the article was written in Spanish.

A few years back I asked the Spanish owner of the house I was buying from him pretty much the same question I.E...'Are you okay with us Brits coming here and buying your house's' he said okay because you bring money into the country and you are buying a lot of the houses and giving us building work.

I don't wish to sound like a patronising Brit here but our money talks, not only for house buying but everything else when we live in or visit Spain, British people and holidays are one of the biggest money earners for Spain, and like it or not nothing works without money.

It probably wont be the Spanish people who don't want us, it will be the EU crooks sowing the seeds in the Spanish minds just because we left which is getting up their nose everyday, thats another thing the EU crooks can't see, all the time Junker opens his mouth threatening us with what he will do, and wont do,  if we leave, it makes the whole EU sound like a school playground game.

The wa y things are currently looking in the EU could well bring about big change in next May s Euro elections.

We have seen an increase in populism and right wing parties in Germany, France, Italy, recently Spain and in Sweden.

This will NO doubt feed into the EU parliament and actions to change direction will be powerful.

Its almost a shame the Uk were given the chance to get out of this corrupt and polarised current EU Plan as it may well change itself internally.

Perhaps after all a delay in Article 50 may not be such a bad idea, wait until after May and get these idiots in charge out of the way and let grown up discussion about trade, freedom of movement etc. take place.

The OAPs Health care agreement between the UK and Spain is a PRIVATE  agreement between the UK & Spain that gives British OAPs that live in Spain full time access to Spanish NHS.care..the UK government has to pay 3,500eu to the Spanish goverment for this service for every expat that lives in Spain ...this amount just so happens to be the same amount of NI contributions that the Spanish have to pay if they are in full time employment.This PRIVATE agreement can be withdrawn by the Spanish at any time without the need to consult the EU...The EHIC. Card that allows so called EU citizens  that are on holidays up to 3 months within the EU...gives emergency  access to N.I treatment throughout the EU ..this is a EU ruling that the Spanish have to a abide by as EU member's ...this EHIC agreement is not connected in any way with the  PRIVATE agreement between the UK &Spain...and will most likely be withdrawn if a private reciprocal NHS agreement  is not in place when/if the UK leave without a deal.

Actually windtalker you are wrong in both posts. If there is a transition agreement (May's deal) voting rights and everything else continues for two years as if the UK were still an EU member. INCLUDING FREE MOVEMENT until the end of 2020. The article you read is wrong.

Secondly the current arrangement concerning expat healthcare is a bilateral agreement but are dependent on the UK's current EU membership. If that membership falls so in legal terms does the said treaty. So no deal no treaty until these new arrangements are completed.

A new legal treaty must be written in any event once the UK leaves. The UK government has already presented such a legal arrangement in the form of a bill before parliament securing UK laws allowing the state to continue to pay the Medicare costs of the expat population wherever the be in Europe.

Each EU government must also do the same because it’s a reciprocal arrangement. Some will, France has already done it. Others may not. I believe Spain is in the process but like all things in this wonderful country it takes time..

Mickyfinn.. You are saying I am wrong on both my points... And then you state the same as I said in my post using different terminology ....what ever way you want to look at heath care in Spain for the expats will most likely end sooner or later if the UK  leaves the EU without a deal...even under the present EU rule's Spanish doctors are reluctant to offer you free treatment ..and  have a preference to try and charge you for treatment.

Another alternate view on trade.

https://brexitcentral.com/leaving-eu-wto-terms-will-pull-barriers-world-trade-cut-prices-consumers/#menu

No, healthcare for expats will not end, even with a no deal scenario in Europe. You appear to have either not understood my post or you are being disingenuios.

Mickyfinn..the document I read said the transition period would be take  up to 2020 to complete (granted)..  Meanwhile  the expat residents will not be permitted  to vote from march the 29 /2019 in local Spanish elections or in the run up to 2020 termination point. it doesn't involve me  directly at all as I am not a Spanish expat resident...what does bother me is the fact that the Spanish can treat Long standing expat residents of Spain in such a manner ...seemingly with the approval of the EU...the expat population... might have more sinister things to come that involve Gibraltar /appease the Catalonia population.

Maybe just jack it all in, the EU have won and have us over a barrel. The way we are going we won’t even have the necessary shilling for the gas meter. OK we might have to grovel and boot lick for a 100 years but we had a go. Rule Britannia.  It’s a wise man who knows when he’s beaten, plus we won’t have to fight over whose kippers is whose

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The Uk will return to the EU in the future. I have no doubt about it as the old guard fade away as young well educated professionals seek a horizon beyond London or Dover and are fustrated by restrictions and red tape. Industrial unrest will return as Britain stuggles to find markets for it exports.

The statistical demographic indicates that. The leavers that promoted this mess will have their cause exposed for what it is, pure nationalist twaddle. Born of resentment toward a portion of the Tory Party which in their eyes betrayed them by forcing through membership with the help of the Labour Party.

The consequences of returning the UK to the seventies will soon promote political change beyond the shower currently inhabiting the House of Commons.

It may take a decade or more but I can pretty much guarantee it. Why? Because forcing young people’s future to return to the past will never work. That past was hardship, shortages, industrial strife, child poverty. When nothing worked very well and nothing lasted very long and the nation contributed to the global catastrophe of climate change. Sterling was worth almost nothing and financial controls meant you could only take £25 out of the country on holiday. Enjoy

The Uk will return to the EU in the future. I have no doubt about it as the old guard fade away as young well educated professionals seek a horizon beyond London or Dover and are fustrated by restrictions and red tape. Industrial unrest will return as Britain stuggles to find markets for it exports....

Honestly mickyfinn what planet are you on? because it ain't this one, where would we find these well educated professionals from? most come out of Uni and end up in Mc Donalds, the rest have such strange views on what England should do that they would wreck the country inside of a month.

The statistical demographic indicates that. The leavers that promoted this mess will have their cause exposed for what it is, pure nationalist twaddle. Born of resentment toward a portion of the Tory Party which in their eyes betrayed them by forcing through membership with the help of the Labour Party....

The main reason to leave the EU is the constrants the EU puts on everyone, and of course it's the UK that follow them the most and it matters not who is in power everyone hates them.

The consequences of returning the UK to the seventies will soon promote political change beyond the shower currently inhabiting the House of Commons.....

Well at least you got this correct.

It may take a decade or more but I can pretty much guarantee it. Why? Because forcing young people’s future to return to the past will never work. That past was hardship, shortages, industrial strife, child poverty. When nothing worked very well and nothing lasted very long and the nation contributed to the global catastrophe of climate change. Sterling was worth almost nothing and financial controls meant you could only take £25 out of the country on holiday. Enjoy....

You liken this part to the Victorians, the world as a whole has come a very long way since then, hardship existed then and still does now, ask anyone sleeping on the streets about hardship...shortages have always happened, Mrs B couldn't buy any pickled onions this week, every shop had run out, is this the EU's fault then...Industrial strife happend way back because the big unions had a grip on everything, they liked nothing, warm tea...Strike lads, was that the EU that fixed this problem then?...Child poverty, read any English papers over the past months, seen who has been put in jail because of this, in the 21st century and while still in the EU...Nothing worked very well, bought any items made in China lately that have lasted, found any items made in the UK...We were exporting items all over years ago, we had a toy factory in our tiny village that has been making and exporting toys for over 100 years...Climate change, now you really have lost the plot...Boom Boom.

This message was last edited by baz1946 on 22/12/2018.

I don't expect to change people's minds. Only to try a little to lift the barriers humans create in their belief systems 

It may take a decade or more but I can pretty much guarantee it. Why? Because forcing young people’s future to return to the past will never work. That past was hardship, shortages, industrial strife, child poverty. When nothing worked very well and nothing lasted very long and the nation contributed to the global catastrophe of climate change. Sterling was worth almost nothing and financial controls meant you could only take £25 out of the country on holiday. Enjoy

Is this in reference to a previous Socialist government under Mr J Callaghan who went cap in hand to the IMF as U.K. could not afford the Socialist policies his government had put in place and was very nearly repeated under me Gordon Brown who left us nearly broke?

Its not the EU who get us out of this mess, it is sensible economics living within our means and embracing a business based and trading mentality which has made our financial services the envy of the world.

You are right about younger generations changing things in good time BUT it will be the younger generations in the EU that bring about change.

Lets Hope Europe sees sense before it lurches too far to the Right.

We all want the best for our youngsters  it’s just debatable how we best achieve that! 😉

What a load or rubbish you are all talking about... We all want the best for our youngster's ...remember the Poll Tax that was introduced by the conservative government that was supposed to make it a fairer society to live in by getting every working adult to pay contributions towards local services and reduce the burden of house rates ...these so called youngsters  that live with Mam & Dad as long as they possible could before getting thrown out that earned dam good wages ... did not want to contribute anything  in to the community that they live in via the so called Poll tax ...I live in a property that cost me £2,300 per year rates this money goes towards running our town services like Police/Street Cleaning /Road repairs/school's/fire service/hospitals...the list goes on and on and yet the Bill for all this has to be paid by the House owners/and business owners ...not one penny is paid by so called youngsters of working age living with Mam & Dad ...Next door to me we have two so called youngsters around 30 year's old ...and one of them was moaning about the council cutting services like pot holes repairs / cutting rubbish collection down to two collections per month...and when I said they don't have the money and what we need to relieve the burden of the already very high house rates would be to introduce the Poll Tax so that everyone paid towards the up keep of the community that they lived in ...he said That his parents done this with the House Rates ...so why should he have to pay as well . Was Maggie Right  or wrong  ...all we got out of youngster's back then was Maggie Maggie Out Out Out... With the full backing of the then so called Labour Party ..  personally I think that any Party that gets in to government should coconsider a version of the Poll Tax ...so that everyone paid towards the up keep of the pavements that they walked on...apparently these same youngster's are demanding a new Referendum as most of the old people that voted ( Rate Payer's ) are now dead...Think About It.

Political thinking is sometimes good in intent but in reality they frequently lack realistic impact assessments in terms of the preparation and detailed analysis necessary to achieve objectives, whilst paying due regard to minimising unnecessary division and genuine hardship. 

TIMELY change and flexibility to adapt where required  is essential but it doesn’t help when the economic analysis upon which strategy is decided is questionable.

Perhaps too many of ALL ages remain “ fixed” in ideology or “ cushioned” from realities that don’t directly impact them on a personal level, so selfishness can sadly prevail, without willingness to consider the wider perspective.  

Practical and well balanced solutions frequently span many political parties....in other words what’s wrong with taking off the shackles of political constraint and looking to solutions that better benefit all. A more balanced approach where one party doesn’t undo everything that the other has done in the name of party politics so to speak, without good intellectual UNBIASED appreciation of factors prior to changing strategy.  

Many people now are sick and tired of any extreme left and right mantras and want caring flexible but equally realistic solutions. 

Trouble is selfishness and yes sometimes lack of comprehension or the naivety from lack of first hand experience or lack of willingness to retain an open mind and research can all too often overrule logic in this regard!

It’s not so black and white as some suggest.