Should there be a second referendum?

you expect Labour/Libdems/ SNP to bail out a government because tory MP's are voting down legislation   if membesr of their own party are voting against the government legislation that's the fault of the opposition is it....aye right

Angeleyes1 I have never said in any of my past Post's that the DSS was to generous.. I admit to saying everything else in your post and could not agree more in what you said...Johnmcmannon politician's from every side of the fence are playing politics with the government ...Labour/SNP more so as they have more to gain.

I am sure you said approximately 390,000 EU migrants that live in the UK do not have jobs and are claiming DSS benefits.

Maybe it was someone else.

Angel eyes1 ...no I did not say that either.. But you are right to point out that over 390,000 EU migrants are claiming DSS payment's in the UK ...apparently according to EU rule's this is OK ....as we in the UK must treat EU scroungers the same as our home grown dole Napper's ....roll on the Brexit...the IN crowd keep going on about that big Red bus and how they were lied to Bo??ocks why did they not put this on the side of the bus instead ...these dole payouts are  enough to bail out the NHS on their own. 

Data from the Department for Work and Pensions, taxman and Treasury shows EU workers received more than £2.2billion in tax credits and housing benefits, £1.1billion in out-of-work payments and £700million in child benefit.

The figures of 390,000 are from approxamatly 2014 / 2015 dare say up a lot more now, the figures above I took of a web page.

show the source of this info

In the run-up to the Brexit referendum, ministers had insisted the figures were not available.

But the cost of open doors migration has now been revealed.

Data from the Department for Work and Pensions, taxman and Treasury shows EU workers received more than £2.2billion in tax credits and housing benefits, £1.1billion in out-of-work payments and £700million in child benefit.

There is a stark contrast between Western and Eastern Europeans.

Nearly half the personal taxes paid by migrants from countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Poland went straight back in tax credits and child benefit.

The clue is in the wording...Data from the Deprtment for Work and Pensions.

I cant help it if you choose to ignore facts, anyone living in the real world can see what is happening around them.

Some people also ignore the fact that if ..if...if...Corbin every got in power this country would be finished, and no I cant show you the source of that info either. It beggers belief that some would want the UK destroyed all over again.

work and pensions, HMRC and the treasury are 3 different sources....where is this actual data from the 3 sites....or where did you copy that paragraph from....wouldn't be from a UKIP or Britain First site would it ? why are you reluctant to say ?

If we did have another IN /OUT Referendum ...now that all this data that was suppressed prior to the last vote is now in the public domain ..government minister's have said the OUT camp would most certainly win again...Stop hugging tree's and painting your face blue ..read the fact's.

so migrants from Poland, Bulgaria and Romania are net contributers to HMRC

Baz wrote: Nearly half the personal taxes paid by migrants from countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Poland went straight back in tax credits and child benefit.

If these people from Eastern Europe were legitimately living in Britain, working, contributing and claiming their legal entitlements. Who are you to complain how they spend their own money? Why is that such a problem for you? Many British pensioners claim their state income benefits entitlement from the UK and live in Spain and elsewhere in Europe. They spend it in these countries. It's the same thing yet it's more acceptable to some who have another agenda. 

When something is an entitlement it means the claimant has a legal rights to the income just as everyone else who legally contributes to the system or is in distress. If you don't like the system that's your perogative to try and change it. Leaving the EU however because of it is very similar to throwing out the baby with the bath water. 

Johnmcmahon...some migrants are paying contribution's and are very good for the economic wellbeing of the UK ..but we have at least 390,000 EU migrants that are in the UK  bleeding the DSS dry ...government data freely available on the net will tell you this...Mr David Cameron tried to stop this along with other demands  and was told by the EU he could not stop it ..and they would only allow change's to be made if the UK was near Bankruptcy.

The many British pensioners that you refer to have probably worked and paid taxes in the UK for 40 years plus, therefore they are entitled to spend their money how and where they like, and a state pension is not a "benefit", it has been paid for many times over.

Mickyfinn/Jarvy...call it what you like DSS /Pension fund...the UK has only one pot of gold to dig into ..the pensionable age use to be 65 ..I was informed I will have to work until 67 ..it's possible when I get there that it will be even higher ..could this be down to the fact that at least 390,000 EU migrants are draining the pot of gold that they have not paid into dry ...or are you going to believe the farcical story that we are all living longer.

if all this info from DHSS, HMRC. the tresury is there for all to see....then post links to the sites from HMRC, the Treasury that you've seen....shouldn't be a problem if you've actually read it on those official sites....otherwise it's just hot air

This message was last edited by johnmcmahon on 07/12/2018.

So it is nearly half of the taxes PAID BY THEM?
Where is the other half?

Javi - The many British pensioners that you refer to have probably worked and paid taxes in the UK for 40 years plus, therefore they are entitled to spend their money how and where they like, and a state pension is not a "benefit", it has been paid for many times over.

.The DWP always refers to the state pension a 'Benefit.' I have often wondered why. The key word with social security payments is 'entitlement'. It matters not legally or morally how long someone has paid into the system. If someone qualifies for it then it becomes a right that the state has granted by law. The money paid theirs to do with what they choose.

Everyone is equal under the law and discrimination on ethnic, racial, religious or sexual grounds is unlawful

work and pensions, HMRC and the treasury are 3 different sources....where is this actual data from the 3 sites....or where did you copy that paragraph from....wouldn't be from a UKIP or Britain First site would it ? why are you reluctant to say ?

Nope not the Ukip site or the Britain First,  thanks for letting me know that existed, never knew that, I will have a look considering I am all for Britain first.

I actually get some of the data from a Son in Laws brother and wife who are DHSS fraud investigators, and even they have said many figures are massaged to look 'Not as bad as it would seem'  from the higher up's, they are bewildered as to how much work they do on so called honest tax paying overseas visitors only to be told drop the case, didn't take them long to work out why.

Some may well pay a little tax, meanwhile a whole larger chunk goes out of the country on children that don't exist and so on, even the Polish Bank wanted to know why so many British £50.00 notes were being paid into Polish banks for exchange. The French don't say this, the Spanish don't say this, etc etc.

Yes, it's mostly down to the government who won't stop it happening because it looks bad on the country if they did, meanwhile the many don't want to see it, so if you cant see it,  it doesn't happen. 

Said this many times on here, I work with these one day a week, would you care to have your eyes opened a little johnmcmahon, then spend the day with me, look and listen to them, doubt you would believe what you would see and hear. 

It’s not as straight forward as that. If you have paid in you will be entitled to a state pension no matter where you live. I do not see that as a state benefit handout. But if you have been a dole Waller all you life or a foriegn resident you will need to claim Pension Credit, that is a benefit handout paid only in the UK as far as I am aware.** EDITED - Against forum rules ** There is more detailed criteria regarding Transgender people etc. See https://www.gov.uk/state-pension

It would seem that currently it does not matter a toss if you pay in or not providing you don’t want to live in a villa in Spain at retirement age.

This message was last edited by angeleyes1 on 08/12/2018.

UK Pension credit appears to be linked to habitual residence.

The rules of HR state “ if your customer is from one of these EU countries ( named on the site) and is a worker or self-employed, they will generally have the right to reside only if they are not a burden on public funds, or if they are a dependent family member of a worker or self- employed”.

Sensitive questions then arise.....who assesses the criteria re “ becoming a burden on public funds”.....( if assessment is a complex process then is the assessment process in itself a burden on public funds? ) and who are classed as dependent family members? Do dependent family members then become a burden on public funds?....are there limits to the number of family dependents or age limits?..... if dependents are of working age, are they too not expected to work or demonstrate adequate funds to support themselves?

Perhaps another sensitive question could be .....if an EU country has a benefit system inferior to the nation where they are residing, then why should any excess be born by the host nation? Perhaps this “ equivalence” is taken into account in some way in the assessment process  ( time limited perhaps?) 

So many questions...

What is the wording used within the Spanish system to be exempted from benefits?

This message was last edited by ads on 08/12/2018.