It is always wise to keep a copy of all your posts then you can analyse what has been deleted and decide for yourself if you have been in breach of forum rules.

I wonder how the French are going to manage if the UK doesn't get a trade deal from the EU...at the moment the French are rioting in the street's of France burning cars & buildings and so on ..over having to pay a few cent's more for a ltr  of petrol which indecently would make it the same as we pay for a ltr  in the UK ...how on earth is the EU going to Handel telling them that they will have to close farm's and factories as they are no longer permitted to deal with the UK.

One of your wisest posts. For the sake of the French brothers and allies we should rescind article 50 and abandon BREXIT totally.

the French have shown that it is possible to fight against attacks on the living standards of the working class. UK workers should take note on how to deal with oppression 

That is incitement and against forum rules.

Being tied to the EU is oppressive.. especially when the majority of the UK voted to leave in a fair and Democratic referendum ...if the Remoaners don't respect Democracy before you know it the UK will be a police state with all your rights taken away ..Democracy Please Respect IT...that means you .

 Inciteful rhetoric should play no part in intellectual debate and those who support or incite violence as a means to an end do a grave disservice to the respect of civilised society and boundaries of acceptable behaviour that we ALL benefit from and for which we should never take for granted.

the French have shown that it is possible to fight against attacks on the living standards of the working class. UK workers should take note on how to deal with oppression 

Hard to believe this is your opinion, or is it someone else's, all very well until it comes to a street near you, maybe your car and home set on fire, perhaps feeling okay when a brother, sister, or any member of your family get hurt...Been in any violent protests lately then have we? 

Opinons and comments inciting violence will not be tolerated on this forum. Please refrain from posting such comments. They will be removed and you will be banned.

Violent revolution is in the DNA of every French person. It's how things change but at the same time stay the same in France. Governments make unpopular decisions, street protests until the policy is changed then status quo resumes. It’s part of normal French life. It encourages ordinary people toward a belief they can rule or influence policy.

That of course suits the establishment who simply redirects the cause of the protest towards something else. In this case the reduction of taxes for the rich is now being abandoned.

May sound strange to your average Brit but France is a undecipherable nation.

Yesterday in the UK parliament the government was defeated on three occasions. They were procedural defeats but go some way to preventing any exit from the EU without a deal. This was the sovereign parliament taking control of this debate.

The ECJ also said article 50 can be withdrawn with a simple request by UK HM government and the status quo of membership of the EU resumed.

If May’s deal is also defeated next Tuesday we are off to the races. The UK will have its second plebiscite to leave or remain members of the most successful trading block on the planet.

Baz 1946..no one would like to see trouble in the streets of the UK... But it could well be on the way if Democracy is overturned ..by halfwitted people that walk about with painted blue faces ..and waving EU flag's .  it is impossible to overturn a Democratic vote in any Democracy...the Irish got laugh at when they done the Oky Coky with a Democratic vote as the powers at be in the EU did not like the vote to leave the EU.. what a joke on Sothern Ireland that turned out to be.

Nothing is impossible with the way the EU leave vote is going because for all we know every member of every party wanted to stay in the EU, regardless of what they say about the way they voted when asked, this country has had protests in the past and some have been bad, yes the brigade you mention will always pick a fight because it's their way.

Seems to me that if everyone was in full time work no one would have the time or energy to protest....Dream on Baz.

I voted out, would still vote out again, purely on the basis I didn't like the way the EU were controlling us for many wrong reasons, but that is not the UK people's faults, it's our so called wise leaders of this country who didn't have the guts to make sensible honest changes to what the EU wrongly told us was best for us, not everything was wrong, did seem like about 95% was not constructive to our way of living though, one size does not always fit every person,  EU leaders really thought that everyone should be of the same mind set.

Baz I voted out as well and would do so again..it also comes as no surprise that just about ever MP would have voted to stay IN the EU gravy train ...one of the main reasons for people voting OUT was uncontrollable immigration from the EU (NO I AM NOT IGNORANT TO TO FACT WE HAVE IMMIGRATION FROM NONE EU COUNTRIES AS WELL BUT THIS IS CONTROLLED).. We had no need for the IN OUT referendum you can blame Tony Blair & Gordon Brown for not listening to public discontent 15 year's back when the Labour  party started calling the public (Bigot's) and the likes ...Corbin is still not listening... his party is trying to force a general election but he has no manifesto in place and wants us to stay in the EU which he would have to put in his manifesto  as David Cameron did...but has no way of getting round the fact that the Majority of the British population voted OUT  of the EU .

Here are some of the benefits Britain’s membership of the EU has provided over 45 years:-

Unrivalled prosperity and stability through free trade. Including free trade agreements with 37 nations and concluding FTA with a further 15 nations including Japan. It’s estimated the UK’s membership has added 5% to its GDP.and provided an estimated 3.1 million jobs.

Provided the ability for UK citizens to live work and retire enjoy good healthcare in another European country with the same rights as indigenous peoples.

Provided security and stability systems to combat criminality  terrorism, paedophiles and cybercrime.

Provided political leadership in the world for human rights and climate change. Has also given the UK a stronger voice in international forums.

Abolished data roaming charges and digital geographic streaming restrictions.

Consumer protection is a key benefit of the EU’s single market, and ensures members of the British public receive equal consumer rights when shopping anywhere in Europe.

Leaving the EU may allow the UK to eventually replicate free trade deals over the coming 15 to 20 years. Even with the USA who will extract a very high price as has been seen with China.

Meanwhile the other benefits of the above will be lost until bilateral deals can be completed with 27 other nations which may take even longer. Britain will still be required to maintain EU rules, ECJ jurisdiction and laws if it ever wants a FTA with the EU post Brexit. The campaign slogan "taking back control" was and is a totally dishonest claim. The British people were conned but that's undertandable. Its easy to be conned by things you want to hear.

The people are now better informed about this debate and maybe, just maybe they will vote with that knowledge rather than gut instincts. Hope springs eternal.

I am not convinced non EU immigration is controlled as well as it should be or if it is a case of stamping anyone’s passport. There are many Brits who mistakenly blame the EU for all immigration, which was heavily promoted by Nigel Farage who has a lot to answer for and has now done a runner.

Micky...if we are all rolling in the clover in the UK ..why are you not hear enjoy the proceeds...you could paint your face blue and totally disrespect the union Jack by putting a EU flag on top of it .

There are many who do not want to be part of a federal state, (the ultimate aim of the European Commission and countries such as France), which in turn will make decisions that favour those countries linked to the eurozone, which ultimately results in decision making as to the best interests of individual countries, being taken away from the people that suffer first hand the consequences of such decision making.

Likewise the EU have not complied with their own stability mechanisms in place to protect.  There has sadly been much hypocrisy in this regard.

If you look to general opinion of UK citizens, this appears never to have been the intention of the majority of UK citizens who wish to retain control of decision making that directly affects them.

The EU has sadly proved to be a complex and at times dictatorial web unwilling to accept reform, that entanglement is hard to be freed from, which to many says it all, as it loses the essence of what is good for the best interests of the people from a wide variety of individual countries, that have their many differences in culture,  financial systems, debt levels, real estate systems, individual laws, justice systems, etc.

In hindsight, if not managed in a flexible and less dictatorial manner, this was inevitably bound to impact the psyche of all too many citizens across Europe who are striving for their voices and genuine concerns to be heard.

The lack of willingness to reform and remain willing to review trusted and respected open minded intellectual analyses at country level, reviewing all necessary factors ( trusted independent economic indicators), and the impact of intransigent dictates, without full impact analyses, was bound to cause not only distrust in the system but also more worryingly a breakdown of cohesion amongst disillusioned citizens.

How sadly ironic when this union was intended to enhance cohesion between peoples from widely differing countries across Europe and not destroy it.

ads

The thread is 

Should there be a second referendum?

not BREXIT

Kavanagh

please look to your own responses and other responses before you singularly critise in this regard.

Ads.

With the UK outside the EU a federal state is more likely. That sort of closer integration will require unanimous approval. The UK could always have prevented it. Now the British will lose all the influence they once had. Not just in Europe but the wider world.

I'm reminded of the Joni  Mitchell song, Big Yellow Taxi. "You'll never know what you've got till its gone"