Should there be a second referendum?

Mickyfinn, 

I see where you're  coming from but that would go on forever, having a referendum EVERY year because whatever the outcome then the current 17 year olds could say exactly the same!

Just stick to the facts:-

Why did it only take 38 minutes for 27 out of  27 EU countries to ratify Prime minister Mays ( Remainer ) deal? It's  because it was a fantastic  deal for THEM!

However, NOT for Great Britain! It shows that the leave vote was correct and therefore a second referendum is surplus to requirement!

Just check Eye on Spains own poll to date.  55 to 43 to LEAVE!

I do howeve believe the minority will get their way and another referendum  will happen  but it could only be to say HOW we LEAVE not if!

Kavanagh.. in answer to your question  ..myself and my son run a business that has 16 employees ..we have been in business for 32 years we pick a phone up on a daily basis and order equipment from none EU countries on a daily basis... as it is cheaper for us to do this even when we pay the import duty & p&p it still  works out more cost affective to do so...this is how a business is run .it's.by people that know how to do a deal and run a cost affective business with no price fixing from the EU.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **, in your business empire what is the origin of your employees? What equipment does your procurement department buy on a daily basis and where from? Is it not available in the UK?

This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 02/12/2018.

Kavanagh...the equipment we buy in on a daily basis ...is readily available in the UK but a much higher prices some times even double due to price fixing from the EU... we buy direct from countries likes China/ USA/  Canada none of which are EU member states ...as for employees out of 16 we have 3 coloured and 13 white  the complete workforce is British born in the UK....mabe if we had a field full of potatoes to pick this would be a different story ...we are Engineers so we don't rely on cheap labour from the EU ..but if it was down to me  I would have the long term dole napper's and prisoners doing this work on farms ...especially prisoner's that seem to be left to rott in jail.

There is no such thing as price fixing in the EU. It is illegal under antitrust or competition law.

I agree about long term dole napper's and prisoners but the human rights bunny huggers would never allow it.

Kavanagh....no price fixing in the UK you make me laugh the EU tells farmers how much they can grow and makes them plow perfectly good crops back into the ground /the same can be said about fishermen within the EU they are also only allowed to land a EU quota of fish to keep the price stable is this not price fixing within the EU directive... This is only the tip of the iceberg ..it might  I'llegal for the likes of myself to phone round a few of my business associates and fix a few Price's ...but it goes on business we do it all the time ..it is well known in my trade if you win a tender for a job ..and you don't have the workforce to complete the job on time you lay some of the contract of to another company the majority of the the people you lay off to ( subcontract ) have tenderd (bid) for this contract themselves.

I'm not convinced a second referendum would change the small leave majority very much. The political rights propaganda machine would go into overdrive once more. The tabloid press and the BBC would resume their anti EU campaign. It would also go some way to polarise and increase the divisions within British society. It's for these reasons I have never really supported it although I have taken part in some direct pro EU political action..

In my view a general election is the way forward after May's deal is lost. If Corbyn won he would keep Britain in the customs union and the single market which I believe is no bad thing. If May or someone else won then Britain would leave the EU without a deal. The result will be catastrophic economic decline. However at least people would feel more confident they had brought it on themselves. So democracy wins albeit at very steep cost.

I believe societies need to regenerate anyway every 100 years or so hopefully without conflict or war. The young and working people of a certain age need to feel what hardship, poverty and shortages really mean. It concentrates the mind towards valuing what they have. My parents and grandparents generation understood that perfectly. Baby boomers and Millenniums do not A bit like deliberate bush burning, a form of regeneration for the soul.

Nobody will believe the advice of experts anymore until they feel it themselves and in their own lives. We all suffer from information overload and no longer trust anyone or anything.. So bring it on lets be done with it.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **..it they do have another General Election Labour like any other party would have to put forward the proposal's / change's they want to make in the form of a manifesto ..by proposing what you said they would be shooting themselves in the foot and most certainly loose ..and if you can remember back to the last general elections the the labour party's Manifesto turned out to be a joke especially the bit that said they would wipe out students Dept's with no money to pay for it...they coned the students into voting for them and still lost.

Nicolai Sturgeons SNP party that's wants Scotland to remain in the EU ...has also said she doesn't want Scotland to be part of EU common fishing agreement ...along with several other demands ..she was  reminded in a live TV interview the demands her party has proposed are basically the same as Mr David Cameron's so will be unacceptable to the EU.

I wonder how many have taken time to review alternative economic forecasts and analyses as part of their own “ due diligence” to dispassionately look at the various analyses associated with the Brexit scenario? How many are willing to review all scenarios and keep an open mind, without dismissing details out of hand? 

One such article worth reviewing is the following, which was produced in February this year.

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Alternative-Brexit-Economic-Analysis-Final-2-Mar-18.pdf

This report puts forward many arguments to counter the Treasury forecast analysis and goes into detail re the no deal scenario, so it would be interesting to hear the arguments why this report should not be taken seriously given the poor track record of the Treasury’s economic modelling to date?

Does this analysis still stand?

The following is identified in this report

“The results of a year-long project in which this was done can be found in the 2017 publication by Minford and Xu, Classical or gravity? Which trade model best matches the UK facts? This work showed conclusively that the Cardiff World Trade Model does, indeed, produce accurate results for the UK economy. Therefore, this is likely to account for an additional part of the different results between the Cardiff and Whitehall models.”.......

“So, in summary, what appears to matter is whether (a) the correct Brexit policy and other assumptions are fed into the model and (b) the model is ‘tuned’ to fit UK trade facts faithfully. If the correct Brexit policies are fed in, it seems that all of the models – GTAP, Cardiff, and gravity models – produce directionally the same results – all clustered around a positive 2 per cent to 4 per cent of GDP range. And the positive result gets larger the closer the model being used gets to the facts of UK trade.”

Therefore the question to ask is have people been FULLY advised of this alternative economic modelling analysis ( i.e. have they been provided with this level of detail) with a view to comprehending the UK’s best interests as a whole with regard to a no-deal scenario? Have the premises that have been made by the Treasury been wrong from the start?

It’s worth reading the whole of this report if only to retain an open mind and comprehend the details relating to an alternative analysis, and then debate with a broader appreciation of the whole picture going forward, rather than prejudging ( perhaps in ignorant bliss of some uncomfortable realities associated with the failings of the UK Treasury’s economic modelling!)

Well that shows how much Tricky thinks of the UK. To hope that Corbyn and his commie pals would win a general election says it all. If Liebour got into power any project fear forecasts would be nothing compared to the destruction of this great country that would happen with their Viv Nicholson ideals. Its a pity he hasn't had some form of poverty first hand, then he wouldn't dream of thinking that a Liebour victory would be better for the UK

what a load of old cobblers. Railways, electricity, gas, mail back in the hands of the peole. What's not to like. The last PM who was happy with state owned assets was one Ted Heath...Tory PM..of course that was before the right wing lunatics took over the tories and sold off everything that belonged to us....and they are in the process of selling off the NHS now. Corby is about as commie as Ted Heath...he'll be the next PM...suck it up

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

Corbin as the next PM would be worse then madness, if so Abbot could be his right hand person, according to the latest gossip, that really would put madness into a different bracket altogether.

Caught a glimpse of Blair on TV this morning, something about yes another vote to leave or not, so it's true then, he still wants to be the next leader of the EU.

Diane Abbott could be the best Chancellor of the Exchequer we have ever had in modern times. 

Tony is only looking after himself, what’s new about that?

A lot of posts going missing. 

At the moment you will always be able to buy and import goods cheaper from a sweatshop country that has no human rights and employs child labour for a bowl of rice a week. All down to your own morals and conscience.  

Its a waste of time posting at all when your posting disappears for no apparent reason and then your posts get put onto a completely different thread !!

Chrissie1

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/research-hub/uk-ethical-consumer-markets-report

Diane Abbott could be the best Chancellor of the Exchequer we have ever had in modern times. 

Tony is only looking after himself, what’s new about that?

You are deadly correct about Abbot being the best Chancellor ever, with her mathematical skills we would all end up paying no income tax, no council tax, no road tax, no VAT, can't be bad.

If Blair did become the leader of the EU chances are he wouldn't last very long having power over the people due to the EU wanting a EU Army, Blair would enlist everyone, then once everyone got killed he would have no one to reign over, he's quite the expert at this. Yes, I really can see the future wisdom in your words.

A series of posts have been removed as they added no relevant content to the forum other than insulting and inciting members on this site. Please keep to the topic and express your views in a civil manner. 

Thank you

EOS moderators

Could you please let me know which post/s of mine have been insulting etc.

Chrissie1