Patronising "No Reply" email

Quote: A source of sadness and lost opportunity for everyone.

Really??? Your opinion as usual, not fact! The only sadness I, and many others who actually live in the UK feel, is not leaving the EU on March 29th!

It would be a dull forum thread indeed if all we posted were facts. Leaving anything by definition means you lose something. When nations do it they usually find that loss impacts a generation. A union means stronger together weaker alone. The leavers believe the Uk can manage that. History is always the judge of wisdom 

I remember a couple of strong unions. USSR and Yugoslavia. Wonder what happened to them?

On a brighter note.....just seen Britain’s got talent on the TV. So entertaining, fun filled, kids that demonstrated unbridled joy, people from Japan and Armenia thrown into the mix ....what a breath of fresh air in this day and age of all too much talk of doom and gloom.

Optimism and self belief is what’s required now!

Enjoy your weekend folks....

😀

Couldn't agree more. Don't usually watch that show  but that school is very lucky to have that teacher!

Optimism and self belief, words the doom mongers don't understand. Britain can be great again if the politicians would let us get on with it.

Who said Britain isn't great anymore?

Oh, wait....that would be the Brexiteers, with their fantasy of a new “Global Britain”, allusions to the second world war and Winston Churchill’s readiness to stand alone. The Leave campaign promised to shut out an (entirely imagined) influx of migrants from Turkey. Not a lot of difference between such sentiments and the overt racism of extremists such as the English Defence League really, so yes - it was very refreshing tonight to see Armenians & Japanese applauded & cheered by a Great British audience who appreciate cultural diversity. What a shame 52% of us apparently don't, though.

And by the way, the implication that the EU can be compared to the former USSR......well, that doesn't really need dignifying with a response actually.

Roberto

Of course the British appreciate cultural diversity. We’re proud of it.... 😀

This is not mutually exclusive to those who voted remain! Such generalisations do no favours to honest debate. Likewise with talk of linking the majority of Brexit voters with overt racism and extremists.. So sad....

As you know there are many varied reasons why people voted Brexit depending on their own first hand observations and growing disillusionment, but with regard to movement of people at that time, many of these reasons related to criticisms of the EUs policies and the direct impact on their everyday lives from the lack of control to curb the sudden influx, where lack of allowance for TIMELY AND REALISTIC forward planning on the part of the EU only exacerbated the disillusionment. If we are honest it didn’t have to be this way ( and this is not to say I am ignoring domestic mismanagement at that time). But to continue to ignore valid criticisms of the EU and their OVERALL mismanagement and denials of how this was negatively impacting our society cohesion and infrastructure etc appears as denial of uncomfortable truths. 

None of us should be afraid to rationally review critiques from both sides of the debate and seek mutually beneficial solutions, but it isn’t helped by misleading generalisations that only further alienate and divide.

Mmmm...."to alienate and divide". Seems to me that so far that's just about all Brexit has actually achieved.

One of your "many varied reasons why people voted" to leave was posters depicting hordes of undesirable foreign looking people heading (supposedly) for our shores and the totally untrue claims that Turkey was about to join the EU. But maybe you're right - maybe some "timely and realistic" intervention in the war in Syria by the EU would have averted the mass migration of refugees, and maybe a policy of counteracting lies like Turkey being about to join, by perhaps educating/informing EU citizens of what's really going on would have diverted some of the frustration & disillusionment of millions of people away from Brussels and made them look for another scapegoat.....

Here's a thought for the day: (from rma37 in an earlier post) "the good old UK has to...cough up an extortionate amount of money to fund the rest of Europe. OK we get some back but it's still one sided.....we are way out of balance financially."

I came across this earlier: £1.6bn - Amount government has committed to Stronger Towns fund for England's poorest areas over next seven years; £6bn - Amount EU had committed to European Social Fund/Youth Employment Initiative for England's poorest areas over six years up to 2020

That’s interesting Roberto and always good to hear of positives. Perhaps best researched a little further. Did the 6 billion include an apportioned amount the UK had already contributed in general to the EU and then was reallocated as required for such projects? Good nevertheless to know that support is made available from whatever quarter.

More generalisations I’m afraid with regard to other points....many who voted to leave never supported the posters you describe and were critical of this, certainly not compliant with it, and likewise re assumptions you suggest with regard to Turkey. From the many regional TV debates I suspect all too many were wiser than you give credit for when it came to scaremongering nonsense that was being foolishly suggested by both sides during the referendum campaign. I think many from both sides were also disgusted with the media’s sensationalist reporting on these things and probably still are! But equally many have taken their decisions based on first hand observations re all the factors discussed to date.

IMHO, too little note is taken of voters ability to differentiate between local, national and EU issues. How often do we hear the inference that people didn’t understand the issues that related to the EU when they voted? 

From many regional ongoing debates in the country, many did recognise the lack of control from EU mismanagement and inflexibility and the wider impact that this had on their everyday lives. 

Many did recognise how unaccountable the Commission was and how remote the EU Parliamentarians were from their everyday lives. 

Many did recognise the impact from the rapid expansion of member states and how this resulted in EU decision making that decreased the UKs influence and ability to counter society’s growing concerns at national level.

These were major issues to all too many voters who saw changes in their country that went far beyond what they had ever experienced before, in terms of enormous pressures on their health service, their education system, their housing and infrastructure, the lowering of wages and proliferation of zero hours contracts, etc.

Many are now also slowly recognising how the power of financial institutions have impacted citizens lives since the financial crash, but also how powerful elites are “ hugged close” by the EU establishment with all the ensuing conflict of interests. This is an area requiring far greater transparency if voters are to be kept fully informed going forward. 

Many of those who have taken time to research the impact of the 2008 financial crisis and the link between these financial institutions and the EU power base have rightly highlighted major areas of concern with regard to conflict of interests at the highest levels of the EU establishment, and failure to adhere to stability mechanisms intended to protect etc.... but I suspect these are complex issues that the general public remain in ignorance about.

Re Syria, I thought the UK had decided to act a different way in terms of the Govt giving funds directly to support camps in Turkey rather than encourage people smugglers?

intervention in Libya and covert support for islamic nut jobs in Syria were the reasons for refugees and asylum seekers. All the fault of the idiot Cameron and the bunch of right wing lunatics who seem to be controlling the tories. The whole Brexit disaster is down to them. attempts to blame the EU are laughable

I'm prepared to discus and argue the point with anyone who actually lives in the UK and voted in the referendum. Those who have completely settled in other EU countries really don't count in my book, and there are a couple on this thread who are talking out of the part of the body normally reserved for sitting on. I've never heard so much rubbish from so few! Why don't you argue about the politics in your new country?

Good luck to you in your new country and I hope you enjoy the EU. I just hope democracy wins and we can get on with proving all the doom mongers wrong.

ads: IMHO, too little note is taken of voters ability to differentiate between local, national and EU issues. How often do we hear the inference that people didn’t understand the issues that related to the EU when they voted? 

I agree. The EU is blamed constantly for the failings and inadequacies of British politics. Too much influence over the electorate from one side rightwing media encourages people to believe otherwise.

ads: Many did recognise how unaccountable the Commission was and how remote the EU Parliamentarians were from their everyday lives. 

You can apply that statement equally to Westminster politics. How remote is the House of Commons to the bloke in Barnsley?

ads:Many did recognise the impact from the rapid expansion of member states and how this resulted in EU decision making that decreased the UKs influence and ability to counter society’s growing concerns at national level.

Yes the EU provided member states with a veto and qualified majority voting as a counterbalance.

ads: From many regional ongoing debates in the country, many did recognise the lack of control from EU mismanagement and inflexibility and the wider impact that this had on their everyday lives.

Really most peoples knowledge of politics extends to local issues. What EU mismanagement, please? I think classic mismanagement at Westminster such as MP's expenses carried more attention than anything for the people of Britain the EU ever did.

I ask the simple question if the EU is so awful and terrible why then are other member states not clamouring to leave? It's a valid question. Why do the populations of other member states rise up and demand "independence". Why do they not feel the same as Brexiteers that their democratic values are being trampled on? The answer must either be because what leavers say is bogus or the people of Europe are asleep and have no concept of what is happening. Which option seems the most likely?

Thank you ads brief as always.

The way companies communicate with their users, and how they handle and process the information they hold about their users, will soon need to change. This is so all company practice falls in line with new GDPR  guidelines. The guidelines are EU-led, but identical guidelines will almost certainly be written into post-Brexit UK legislation.

Mickyfinn

Barnsley, you are insulting highly intelligent people like Arthur Scargill and Dickie Bird.

Mickeyfinn,

The problem of disillusionment across Europe is already sadly presenting itself in the form of extreme right wing revolts. Poland and Hungary taking control into their own hands ( causing rule of law issues),  Italy beset by major debt and corruption, let alone the pressures from economic migrants and asylum seekers, Greece’s crippling debts following the highly questionable entry into the EU in the first place, you know the French citizens disillusionment, and now a growing concern in Germany. 

The many regional and national debates that took place ( and continue to take place) in the UK have opened people’s eyes to far wider issues than just local issues Mickeyfinn. Perhaps you don’t see these?

The EU is in dire need of reform if the disillusionment across Europe is to hopefully be contained.

As for expenses maybe worth reviewing the following:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-parliament-is-failing-on-transparency-public-spending-rules/

Mickyfinn

Where were you born and when did you qualify as professor of politics and EU specialist advisor.

I think rma 37 proved my point about not being able to have a discussion or debate on this subject as it turns in to nastiness. I think he also proves that the Leavers aren't prepared to listen to anything that contradicts their POV and resort to name calling.

Things are exaggerated. Not necessarily made up or fabricated but exaggerated. Like the post earlier that every vote has gone against the UK in the EU parliament and followed up with FACT.  That makes absolutely no sense at all as the UK doesn't stand up together in the EU parliament. They join in with others such as the Conservatives with one faction, Labour in another, SDP in another bloc and the UKIP in yet another. So if legislation is proposed by one bloc with, for example, the Tories in it and they lose the vote then surely one of the other UK parties must have been on the winning side. And if that bloc the Tories is in with members from 16 other countries lose then surely it is not just UK losing the vote but the other 16 countries as well.

Which is what I mean by exaggeration.

And rma falls into the classic trap by starting to slag off those who have moved out of the UK and claiming they couldn't vote which was patent rubbish. Of course we could vote provided we haven't been out of the country for over 15 years. And if he thinks that Brits living in Spain won't be affected by, or have no reason to get involved, in Brexit then he will do great up on that fluffy little cloud with the other unicorns.

FYI Mr rma, my hubby and I still pay quite a lot of tax to the UK government, in my hubby's case it is over £500 a month (mine not so much but still a fair whack) so I think what goes on in UK does involve us quite a lot. The Little Englander attitude of "you've moved out" doesn't cut it, thank you very much.

Right, that's it. I will be lowering myself to the level of those who can't have a proper discussion without throwing in insults soon.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't think we should have another referendum. The vote was for out and we should be out. It's just that I was hoping UK would fight for a good deal on leaving instead of showing us how worthless those we elect (and I can vote in GE as well) can be. Old Jeremy and his Marxist lot will be in power soon which will be a sad and unintended consequence of the chaotic goings on at the moment. That' ll teach you.

The gilets juanes movement began as protests against the national government in France and Macrons insistence on reducing the taxation burden on the wealthy and placing it on ordinary peoples lives.

The problems in Hungary and Poland relate to the power of the judiciary in the democratic process. This descrption of complex problems are simple shorthand to illustrate they have nothing whatever to do with the EU. The only exception perhaps is Italy whose populist government which came to power promising massive public spending are restricted by EU budget controls and debt limits.  

Yes people don't like mass immigration but have the sense to realise its a global problem not an EU inspired conspiracy.

I ask again please supply a country that's clamoring to follow Britain's lead and leave the EU.

Religion or faith has an unfair advantage over the political or secular society. It doesn't have to keep reinventing itself to make it attractive to voters or fellow travellers. In fact it just has to remain in the form it's always been in. How does any society advance from that? Answer; it does not and that essentially is the point of it. People get bored or tired with the status quo of political life in democracies. Especially if they believe rightly or wrongly they are being left behind or they don’t relate to it's core values. Fatigue leads to disillusion. Religion on the other hand can be a constant, a reassurance an antidote to the anxieties of modern life. Sounds like a positive, n'est-ce pas? I believe that’s a form of cop out from the challenges, stimulation, evolution education gifts us all if we just take the trouble to look. It’s also a denial of that fundamental human trait of questioning validity and purpose. It may be banal to say the EU was successful, so successful that it simply became a victim to that desire for change, fatigue if you like. The referendum was the tool to gift a little power to the emotionally and socially disenfranchised and give the entire system a kick up the back side. Just for the sake of it. It’s a sad theory maybe not far from the truth. Christianity is in decline from it's previously dominant position in Europe that is an accepted process developed as education became more advanced. Secular societies in my view usually develop better without the burden of church and state being one of the same things. In France there is a separation and religious teaching in state schools is banned. I agree religion in the US is still a force but not in the way it once was. I have no axe to grind against any established religion but it has a place and should be separate from all other political considerations. There is no actual conflict between Islam and Christianity both religions live side by side with each other. The world is not re-living the middle ages. Religion rightly in modern western culture has a minor place not a dominate one as in Middle East cultures. What is going currently on is a vicious extremist terrorist campaign using a dominant religion to recruit and alienate ordinary people of differing beliefs towards each other. The purpose is political advantage and power. I think most level headed people can understand that. Just as there are consistent attempts to discredit the European Union with political propaganda, fake news and skewed truths. No political or religious organisation is perfect. It fact it has now almost become a rite of passage to destroy what previous generations have built. Like religion the idea that an organisation as large and complex as the EU could satisfy everyone is an impossible dream. It gets things right and wrong, often in equal measure. The power of anti-EU propaganda worked its nefarious purpose into the minds of a significant section of the UK public. It wasn’t done by bombs or terrorism but with more subtle methods which actually work. Sin Fein and ETA have both realized in recent years that the way to win hearts and minds is not through violence but through social media propaganda and tabloid journalism. I have heard it said that many people voted for Brexit believing in ‘freedom’. That seems a strange concept since Britain never actually gave up any of its freedoms when they joined the EU. What the UK did was share their sovereignty with other European states for a greater good. In return the nation gained much at relatively little net cost. Leaving will mean the UK gains nothing at enormous cost but that’s one of the consequences of believing in ideologies.

Nice post-Angeleyes but the attributed source should be indicated, please.

“The EU has faced considerable criticism for lacking coherent, effective migration and asylum policies, which have long been difficult to forge because of national sovereignty concerns and sensitivities about minorities, integration, and identity. Despite the overall reduction in migrants and refugees currently seeking to enter Europe, the influxes continue to have significant political and societal ramifications for the EU.”

”Debate has arisen over the economic impact of the migrant and refugee flows in the EU. The surge in migrants and refugees in 2015-2016 strained welfare, education, and housing systems in many European countries”.

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R44249.html