Patronising "No Reply" email

But Mr Mikyfinn you are grasping a straws. The vast majority 99% of the British population have no interest in being a Spanish resident and not that many more other than Madge Harvey are that interested in a drunken holiday in Benidorm. Your just exaggerating the whole thing, who cares, other than the Spanish mouths to feed that the few Brit expats and tourist facilitate. The British had a democratic vote which you refuse to accept. Any obstructive action from Spain to the few British expats and tourist would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. When will the reality penny ever drop?

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So no separate S1 healthcare agreement between Spain and UK after BREXIT. EU dictates. Is this fact or are you making it up?

Well I think there's some truth in the fact that Spain will not be any longer such an attractive retirement destination as it has been during the UK's membership of the EU. The taxation and residency rule requirements will prove too difficult when other destinations around the world offer superior advantages.

As for holidays I doubt Brexit will change much. The consumer demand will always be there because of the superior climate. As long as Spain offers people a cheap and cheerful experience the market will prosper. The government have little to do with it. It's pure market forces at play.

My objection to the referendum is the result was skewed by fraud, lies and exaggeration. Even the UK courts agree. Given that fact another vote if you believe in democracy is essential. Parliament I believe will force the right outcome eventually that's their reason for being. 

 Quote       So no separate S1 healthcare agreement between Spain and UK after BREXIT. EU dictates. Is this fact or are you making it up? 

Anybody remember Suzyhart? I actually assumed her question was a wind up, because I hardly think EOS is the place to get your info on Brexit. And predictably, the thread has subsequently morphed into the usual spat between the two opinions (as Acer pointed out - it all depends which view you believe)

But going back to her actual question: "What will it also mean to british people whom have a holiday home in Spain." (sic). The S1 and reciprocal healthcare agreements for residents are irrelevant here. The significant thing is that the EHIC will no longer be valid, so if you didn't before, you'll need private health insurance every time you visit your holiday home (or be willing to take a major risk that you'll never need emergency treatment in Spain). And secondly, your non-resident tax will be charged at a slightly higher rate (even in the event of a withdrawal agreement, since you will no longer be an EU citizen). 

Other than that, I can't see that going on holiday to Spain will be any different from going on holiday to, say, Turkey. 

As for the wider implications of a no-deal Brexit, however, I think John has it about right by saying that, basically, nobody knows. Which is precisely the reason why any MP (or anybody else for that matter) with an ounce of common sense can see that it is a Very Bad Idea.

Some light reading for anyone who prefers to get their info from any source other than Fakebook or the Express: https://fullfact.org/online/what-does-wto-rules-brexit-look/

No doubt some, after reading that, will be squealing that we should "take back control" and leave NATO, the European Convention of Human Rights and the WTO too. After all, we'll still have our hard-earned & valuable free trade deal with the Faroe Islands....

This is an extract lifted from the link posted by Roberto.

Following a no deal Brexit, the trade agreements we’re already signed up to as a member of the EU will cease to apply and trade will take place under WTO rules.

Under WTO rules, countries set their own import rules, so a no deal Brexit means that the government could, in theory, allow goods and services from all countries across the world to be imported into the UK without tariffs or quotas.

But it doesn’t mean other countries would have to do the same, meaning that UK exports to those countries would, in many cases, face tariffs and restrictions.

In any case, the government have said that under a no deal Brexit scenario, tariffs would still apply to 13% of goods (by value) imported into the UK for up to 12 months. During that time it will undertake a review on a long-term approach to tariffs. 

Another way of thinking about free trade is that the UK would be able to decide for itself how trade with other countries would operate. In the longer-term a no deal Brexit would give the UK the greatest agency over its future trade deals, although the exact terms would have to be agreed in negotiation with each individual country. These deals would likely take years to negotiate.

WTO lawyers have already said reducing import tariffs to zero as the UK has indicated it will do is illegal under their rules.
 

You know how it is with lawyers .... One can find 2 equally and highly qualified people totally disagreeing on matters of law.

There are a group of eminent lawyers (& QC's) that argue very effectively for us leaving in a couple of weeks on WTO rules.  If you open the links you will read well constructed and well explained arguments, but beware, in advance, that they are firmly  pro Brexit. 

It takes a little time to carefully read the information here, but these are obviously VERY complex issues.  I do believe that one-liners or short paragraphs dont give enough information to decide.  So have a read if you have a few minutes free.

Jon

https://lawyersforbritain.org/leaving-the-eu-on-wto-terms-pulling-down-the-barriers-to-world-trade

https://lawyersforbritain.org/we-dont-owe-the-eu-any-money

https://lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-legal-guide

https://lawyersforbritain.org/about-us/who-we-are

https://lawyersforbritain.org/why-brexiteers-right-to-reject-theresa-mays-deal

The sad aspect is that if you ask MPs about the actual detail that they are voting on, very few appear to have been prepared to read this level of detail due to preconceived political ideology. Many appear to have refused to even debate this level of detail, preferring to quote generalisations and political mantra. So much for a willingness to listen and learn in this process.... 

It's not really about listening and learning ads it is about raw political ideology. I think the public has little patience or understanding of these arcane UK parliamentary procedures. Basically, the executive (government) can overrule the majority decision in parliament if it arrives at one today finally. They (the executive) can accept it or not and bring back their own deal for a fourth vote. If that fails again which is most likely parliament can legislate for their agreement assuming there is one. The government can then ask HM not to give it the royal assent.

That brings HM and parliament into direct conflict and a full-blown constitutional crisis. The last time that happened was with King Charles 1 and the ending was very messy indeed. Civil war. Political ideology at it's worst.

It is amazing how bitter and twisted some people can become when they cannot have their own selfish way. We have all heard of a ‘’sore loser’’ but BREXIT has put a new definition on that. Respect for democracy has truly gone down the toilet.

I am a Spanish resident and wanted remain but accept the democratic vote, for better or worse. Time will tell despite the know all’s.

Now we are warned of a civil war if the remoaners don’t get their way. This sounds like incitement to me.

Now we are warned of a civil war if the remoaners don’t get their way. This sounds like incitement to me.

You misunderstood my point. I was making a historical comparison. Nothing more. The fact is Britain is deeply divided politically on this issue. The referendum solved nothing because parliament has the final say. The referendum was flawed because no suggestion was included in it on how the UK would actually separate itself from the EU. That is parliaments decision and it's being led by political ideology, not common sense.

You introduced the civil war issue. Britain is not divided; the referendum produced a democratic result. The referendum was a IN or OUT vote that even Noddy could understood.

Why not just respect democracy and get on with your life?

Britain is not divided

You jest, ç'est par?

Well said Angel. The only people causing division are those that do not or will not accept a democratic vote, no matter what they say to the contrary, and the others who do not give a damn about the UK only looking after and feathering their own nests.

Jon

Here’s another detailed analysis produced by the economists for free trade as far back as March 2018.

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Alternative-Brexit-Economic-Analysis-Final-2-Mar-18.pdf

Is anyone aware of this economic analysis being debated IN DETAIL in Parliament in the interim period?

How many are aware that the treasury forecasts and modelling methods were in grave need of review?

How many are still refusing to open their minds to intellectual economic assessments and recognise that forecasting errors of this magnitude should be taken seriously, especially when this directly impacts the no deal assessment going forward?

The talk of now mitigating the effects of a no deal Brexit relies upon not only trusted economic analyses, but also good faith on both sides of the channel to reach sensible and mutually beneficial outcomes going forward.

I would question these economists who believe Britain will prosper outside the EU why it was that Britain struggled economically so much post-war and then after joining the common or single market in Europe why prosperity resulted. Free trade is an attractive proposition for countries and brings benefits.

That is why the EU has successfully negotiated 39 free trade deals for its 28 members around the world. The latest being with Japan. To replicate that position Britain will need to spend the next 20 years trying to achieve what it already has by negotiating on its own with the same countries and without the muscle of 27 other nations behind it. By any common sense standard that will be an uphill task likely to achieve less than it currently enjoys.

Like it or not the referendum was a public advisory process to parliament to leave the EU, not a decision set in stone. It is for the parliament in a representative democracy to find the least damaging way to achieve that wish of the people. In the almost 3 years since the vote, many attitudes have changed as more detail and knowledge has entered the public consciousness. It must, therefore, be right that a second referendum is held to be sure the public is still of the same mind. That is by any standard more democracy not less.

There is no harm in writing to MPs to request they gain DETAILED answers to this alternative economic analysis ( quote the report) and request they swiftly debate the issue in a far more transparent manner, otherwise there will be even greater distrust of the political establishment.

Only when this economic detail and major discrepancy in forecasting  is brought to the forefront of OPEN and sound intellectual debate will people gain any trust in what is continuing to be reported. What have you got to fear from sound good intellectual economic debate I wonder Mickeyfinn? We have already had far too many sound bites and intransigent political mantra from both sides of the debate....time for good and measured analytical reasoning? Time for sensible mutually beneficial agreements to be reached from those that claim to represent US ALL??????

http://www.writetothem.com

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Alternative-Brexit-Economic-Analysis-Final-2-Mar-18.pdf

The worst economic outcome is uncertainty and that's what we have had for almost three years. Europes economy is starting to suffer in part because of it. Expected growth in the UK has fallen along with foreign investment. Yet there is a market belief a deal will still get done. Once that belief evaporates everything will head south.

What everyone now desperately seeks is some form of settlement. If it's no deal then so be it. I predict the damage to the union in Britain will be immense. Ireland will likely move closer to a reunion as one nation seeing a brighter future as a European state. Scotland will almost certainly want independence in order to join the EU. At least all the predictions by either side will become manifest and the country will know who to blame or praise.

I predict firms like Lawyers for Britain will have a field day with all the resulting lawsuits. Welcome to comment Jon, but I suspect your work here is done.