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I have deciided I dont want my house because I dont want to be neighbours  with people like tonymal brian 55/mags (cant remember which) and arnoldg.  I simpley couldnt bear it to be surrounded by closed mindedness, ignorance and fools whom I have to suffer gladly, it is more than I could bear.The attitude of  IWMH/SARCO has been appualing  cloak and dagger to say the least .The last post was cryptic and was put on the forum for no other reason than to make the rest of us think that they have something important to discuss .Why would they not have had this conversation by PM for it made no sense to anyone else. You know nothing NADA, ZERO ,  except for what SJ want you to believe and say.I for one wiil listen to no more of your crap and noncence you are fools unto yourselves.

Youy seem to rely on Anna fo all your worthwhile information ( copying and pasting her memos ) I thought you guys were in control . Truth is you are in control of the info that comes from SJ  or the agents  so why dont you all shut the f . . . up  and let  us concentreate on the real facts that come from Anna and other reliable sources..

This message was last edited by julie anne on 6/30/2008.

This message was last edited by julie anne on 6/30/2008.

If you guys at  IWMH/SARCO are soooooooooooooooo in the loop how come you are relying on information from Anna.Who last week was the devil incarnate. It  would seem you have no links at the top of the chain and are actually a laughing stock  in chamber s and with the administration . Actually there was  a cartoon about your campaign in one of the local papers  It was entitled  "  White Scab want their houses in the dry land "     to you and I that means dessert               think on

DEAR Julie Anne,
                            Information is useful to everyone this was from Anna's solicitor. we were asked if what was said was fact.
                       
                           As for ANNA I did publish an appology for the misinformation that i was given and on both sites in large print and Anna was happy with that . I unlike some people  don't mind admitting to getting things wrong and correcting them if Ican prove them to be inaccurate.

                         Now  for the letters not every one has all the corresponance from SJ or copies of the licences so we asked and recieved them and then sent it to all in our address book and they will be uploaded to our site latter this week as some people were asking about whether SJ had correct exhisting licences and if the build was legal now they have copies of them thats called commincating .
Highest regards 
brianmags
R4 556 
yes I still want My house

Hi

To get back to the information i was interested in.....the posting i was on about said.....

Re deposits as I posted yesterday Anna M has got confirmation that the deposits are in a ring fenced account as they are legally supposed to be. I will therefore be up to the courts as to what is done with the money in conjunction with the solicitors representing those who deposited their money with SJ/HDT.

It looks like this information came from the following e mail info.

1. Owners monies are in a special bank account except for 36,000 Euros which have been used for construction purposes. Antonio has requested clarification in this regard.
 
2. The Judge has ordered that the bank account remains untouched until he is provided with the report of the administrators. Under Spanish law the administrators have to issue a report within 2 months of the insolvency declaration with relevant information on the finance, etc. 

I know people read things the way they want to but i dont get that information from that e mail.  I just get more questions.....

Like..Is owners money the same as deposit money?  I have a deposit but i am not an owner.  
Who said it and what level are they at to make that statement?

On point 2....of course the administrators have ordered the bank accounts not to be touched....thats what administration is about, the control is taken away from the directors until the administration is completed and then a decision is made on what happens next.  This is not some kind of favor done by anyone, its just what happens.

The main thing to be  reminded of is that San Jose are not in control at this time, they can only administer day to day events like unlocking buildings and then locking them again, answering phones and sending e mails (while ever the administrators pay the phone bills)  etc.

The expression ring fenced is not in any way a legal requirement from the builders accounts, its just a saying in accountancy that puts parameters on using an account.  For instance if all road tax in the UK was ring fenced, for use on the roads, it would be an indication that all money raised was spent on roads.............not a legal requirement but a policy.

Whats this racist joke you are on about julie ann.  The best thing the residents comittee can do now is write to that newspaper and have a retraction printed on racism grounds.....It would do more good than guessing about SJ's accounts eh?

I am not a white scab and i dont want a house in a desert.......if any of those are indications of me and my race then we are being taken for a ride................i dont want anything to do with that kind of rubbish.

Brian

Hi Brian ,
              I am assuming that they actually mean us as contracted purchasers therefor owners might be mix up in translation from someone who is spanish trying to put it into english. I know how difficult it is to do the other way round. and that our money is in a clients account please God.
regards 
Brianmags

Do we think this account is for SADM only or for all deposits on all SJ developments can anyone do the Math is there enough to go round?

It is our monies we have paid by way of deposits. Spanish Law, in fact any Country Law denies a Construction company access to that money to use as funding for building. It must remain in a secure account until such date that the properties are completed and the property is signed over to the 'client'. The client then becomes the 'owner' and the money is released into the Construction companies accounts. 

Building funds must come from the companies own finances, or through a Bank 'loan' which is why all this has happened. San Jose did not have ready-cash available to them when the licences were granted for Santa ana and El Pinet was given the go-ahead. The funding they needed from the Banks were declined therefore they had to put themselves into voluntary receivership for the Courts to becoming involved and force upon the banks to release funding, albeit it can be loaned at a higher level of interest to protect the interest of the Banks. If Spanish Banks don't comply, then it's open to International Investment.

All the time our monies sit secure and dormant and that is why I have every faith that monies will be returned, and once the administration process is completed, it'll be paid fairly promptly...........................only my thoughts though.

darren 

I hope you right but if it is all as sraight forward as this why are lawyers asking such huge amounts of money .I had a quote from a lawyer  9500 euros  .I cant bear to throw good money after bad I feel like the whole world is trying to rip me off.

Hi Julie Anne,
                    Some of the lawyers see a chance to make some money not very scruplus but thats the case we have had simular quotes but we now have one thats agreed a fixed price of 1200 euros each which tony and I have sent off today  if you want his details give us a pm and I will gladly sendit to you
regards Brianmags

please remember we are not the Bad Guys in Black cowboy hats  we realy are trying to get best outcomes for our members and ourselves which ever way it goes.      

Hi Darren

One of us is nieve and i hope its me.  When you give a developer money on a deposit, for example off plan, its because the developer can use the deposit money to develop.  Its cheaper than borrowing money from an institution and the person giving the deposit is gambling on the inflation and success of the scheme.

Thats the whole reason for deposits on off plans, isnt it?  Have i dreamt it?  The deposits are like stage payments on houses, builders can use any money paid to them for the build.............and developing land on large scale can always be argued its part of the money spent on your house.  Add to that the number of developments going on, i would doubt it can even be kept seperate from one site to another.

I would really like to think you are right when you talk of the laws governing deposits, but i dont know of such laws.  I have sent a message to my solicitor to enquire.  If you are right i owe you a big kiss.

Brian

Knowing Darren I don't think he would appreciate a BIG KISS from a man !!!!

Brianndo, not saying sj have done this as we know they are crooks, but your summary is not right.

the principle (unless a developer is  seriously cash rich) is in spain is developer has to show funders they have ability to shift properties. so generally the first 30% are seriously discounted to obtain coupons / or contracts to show the funders.

the deposits should be held in a solicitors escrow account, solicitors clients management account - something along the lines of joe bloggs santa ana unit 5 azucena 75000 euros. for example so when the houses get built (dont fall over), the developer can go to bank account take the 30% / 40% / 50% (whatever depost was asked for) and ask client to complete as house is ready.

the solicitor creates / receives bg and passes to client (client has contract of sale and bg). that is how is should work, not saying that is how sj do things!

the bg and coupon (contract of sale) are taken to bank and bank normally provides funding for whole development on basis of first 30% of sales. Not a precise science might be 20% of sales it depends what bank managers has asked for

This normally takes place before the site is even public knowledge. there are savvy wealthy spaniards who regular buy 20% of cute developments before it becomes public knowledge, these guys then release units back 18 mths later.

this was obviously before crash

the prices are then risen to cover cost of borrowing.

the 70% generally to complete pays of the funders debt and interest and the deposits held in solicitors account is developers profit

Alamred you are spot on anc couldn't have put it any better myself. The deposits we pay are seen as a 'guarantee' to the Banks that there is significant interest in that particular urnbanisation and warrant the funding. the crash has really hit the industry and banks are closing up the shutters of lending so to say. All the time our money is relatively safe, for those wanting to get their money back and those that want their houses built.

The big focus now has to be on the administrators seeing enough investment to warrant SADM and El pinet going ahead. i seriously think however the planned Ruta de Golf will be put on suspended completion

Briando55.....make that a sloppy one if im right !!!

 

darren

Hi Guys, This realy good news and positive. 
If we can show them that there is still a large interst in these projects the banks would be foolish to ignore it as they might have to honour their gaurentees, also it could help with knowing that even if there is a slump on the coastal ones and people are still willing to continue with the inland developements then it shows a confidence in the future of the area as well and that looks good for Jumillia as well
regards 
brianmags

Brianmags, you are scary. i would imagine if a burgler came to your house and left you with the carpet, that would be goods news because it took you ages to pick the perfect colour for carpet. despite the fact everything else was gone.

The issue with sj is the funders have lost faith in the project and sj. Sj cannot raise funding for development, and they have no money without funding.

my comment early was generic not at santa ana.

if sj cannot find a funder to underpin the site it is finished. we not talking a few pence here we are talking £10's of millions.

No bank in Spain has that sort of money at moment

The problem with this urbanisation and others is the slump in the property market. If you take SADM for an example, the plan which we all bought into was for an urbanisation planned for 15,000+ dwellings. I can tell you now, to this point approx 1700 have been reserved through either client deposit  and a further number through agents intention / pre-reservations. Now I know some of the agents are handing back their quota, one to the number of some 200 units. So, if we only take the 200 units off, we are left with a quota intention of 10%, not much to stand up and shout about for the Banks to take notice of. 

Furthermore, lets reduce that number of those wanting their monies back, for arguement sake 50% - so 750 properties. Doesn't give cause for the proposed sized urb to go ahead although I would expect building to be completed but on a much smaller scale, say 3000-5000 properties. Now those who still want to buy have to decide if it is an investment or as a retirement property, as an investment, some serious consideration has to be taken to the facilities and rental opprtunity there on a scaled down urb etc and the resale value. Also, will Banks want to fund when there are so many other properties remaining empty, ok they're by the coast but Banks still have to fund nevertheless. So it's now the administrators and Banks that have to decide if there is a sufficient market inland that warrants this urbanisation to go ahead and be completed. And as i say on another thread, there are other urbs being developed in the region, 4 we know of with full planning permission so is it better to continue investment in those at the cost of suspending this one...................................just thinking aloud but so many un-answered questions and many that you or I cannot influence or have any control over. It's out of our hands !!!

D 

Hi Alamred they are absolutely scary dont waste your  time others including myself have been trying for weeks the word brick wall and head come to mind you will only frustrate yourself .Everyhing you say will be twisted and manipulated to become good news and if you do manage to give them evidence that can not be refuted they will scream and cry like babies chuck thier dummies out of thier prams and pretend to all and sundry that you have some wierd and wonderful  hidden agenda  that includes the death of SADM .believe me its soooooooooo not worth it . Blue and face also come to mind .Leave them alone they just want thier houses as long as they make it clear to the administraters thet they do not represent eveyone they can do no harm.If they do otherwise they may find themselves facing litigation in the future.    IWMMB


This message was last edited by julie anne on 6/30/2008.

Hi Julie Anne thanks for the vote of confidence I hope that Lawyers details that I sent via PM as requested was of use to you. 
You know that although we want our house we do not wish bad things of others that want their money. 
 
As for almreds remark about comming back to an empty house you were proberly right but my first thought would be thank god all the family are OK wife and 3 daughters. 
Furniture and the rest can always be replaced on insurance and for those items that can't we still have the memory which no one can take away my most presious things are my family, then my friends, my mind and health , then there are the others like work, religion, then even you get a look in. 

But Like so many others I can't afford to throw money away so even if there is a glimmer of light I will always look foir the best but prepare for the worst as life has a way when you think everything is great it comes back and bites you in a**e
well best wishes to everyone
brianmags R4 556

and yes you got it 
I still want my house

Good evening All,
I have read and am saddened by the unnecessary and unwarranted snipping and personal attacks taking place on the forum today. I thought we had all put that behaviour behind us and accepted that there are those of us with different views but we are all purchasers at SADM  and should not be attacking each other. What does it achieve?  
So what has brought this about? A few facts:
The deposits are secure. Thats good news.
SADM has licences for the build so far. Not bad news
We know from the creditors list that Martin had that 45% of the purchasers are Spanish. Not bad news.

So what on earth is all the fuss about?

I do not know, what I do know is that I and a lot of other want the opportunity to have our houses.

Enough said
Tony  R17 18

Hi Tonymal theres no fuss now weve all made friends  I forgot  where the 45%  Spanish buyers had come from the list and that Linda had actually seen it all is calm now except for the debate about lawyers fees and what they are going to spring on us later on in the process.chill its all good and I really do hope you get your house. julie anne


This message was last edited by julie anne on 6/30/2008.