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The time frames in Darrens post were what we were told/continue to be advised upon are the same as our Laywer expresses and thank you for your down to earth posting. The quickest solution was to transfer to an alternative property and even that is held up now. To Julie Anne, we couldnt agree more, if we could get out of this blessed mess we would.without any shadow of a doubt. Money back or another SJ property.. no contest. A week ago we asked if we could use the media/tv to highlight this illegal, downright disgusting situation we are all in. We had no respsonse. Im not sure what position you are in, but sure as eggs is eggs, we would back you as best we could. People may not enjoy some of your postings but you talk good sense as far as we are concerned.
sally and martin
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Sal
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regarding some comments, just to clarify, these are comments between my solicitor and i that i am sharing and i clearly stated that it will probably conflict with what others have heard.
As for timescales, the comments were made based purely on past legal experiences and therefore an 'indication' of how long we should be prepared to wait. they may be speaking beyond their jurisdiction and i applaud them for it, if it's wrong we may as well close down this forum tonight as all of us are as guilty of conjecture and speculation, regardless of our trades or backgrounds.
AVAL - go ask the Spanish Banks if unsure, and AVAL does not have a time frame or renewal date against it like it is being suggested here and that makes me wonder if what has been written on many Guarantees is in fact correct. If you are so sure your Bank Guarantees are correct, then it is law to be able to reclaim immediately what is owed. Has anyone with a BG been onto their solicitor to check it validity???
darren
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Darren
I completely agree with you .You did not have to tell us what you lawyer siad but you did and for the correct reasons .It is very important for us all to compare the info we are getting as then and only then will a true piccture emerge.Of course as you said in your original post inf o is going to be conflicting . I understand that is the whole point of posting it .As it wil enable everyone the opperchancity to make sense of this situation.
The minute the first Lawyer comes forward and says I will represent you on a no win no fee basis I will choose to believe all is well. The fact that none have speaks volumes .The first one to offer no win no fee I would not mind paying a higher rate to at the end of the day and I am sure it would restore confidence in the Spanish system. Everyone would jump on board ad we could end up with the biggest group action in history.We and the lawyers must beaware thaT there are some on the forum and probably plenty more who can not in the current economic climate raise the money to pay up front what about them .What happened is when SJ went into admin a lot of people hid thier scrupouls and moral values up thier a _s _ s.for the sake of profit I for one do not believe it has to be this way.
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Julie
I thank you for your comments........as for the BG's i will offer a week out here to anyone that has one that can get it sanctioned within the next 7 days, if it is a true AVAL, this would not be difficult to administer i assure you, as I tried to say, many of these documents i am getting the impression are not as binding as first thought, and I'm not blaming individuals, its the unscrupulous people that mascarade these guarantees to aid the sales process. If you cannot get your money back by it's validity, then it's not a Guarantee surely, the Banks issue them therefore have to honour them..........anyone from the Banking world want to comment differently.
if someone wouldn't mind doing me (and everyone) a favour, sound out with their own solicitors the validity of an AVAL so we dont only have my 'say-so' for it.
Darren
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Darren
I am going to do this tomorrow I am also going to phone the BG company myself with the help of a Spanish person who works with me. Not with an outcome in mind just to see first hand what thier take on it is.I will keep you posted as to what they say.Whatever that is .There is far too much of a shoot the messenger approach on this forum people must post what they find out to inform others then people must make of that info what they will. good luck ! IWATTGA
JA
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Julie
let me know how you get on please. As for posting, i suppose that's what forums are for and in a way am glad that posts do get negative responses sometime, it gives a good sense of equilibrium to what is written and discussed, it's when it turns personal and nasty that is not needed in my eyes. All of us have an ultimate goal and we are only going to achieve it individually but group action may pave the way to achieving it easier, whether its keeping the property of getting money back, and that group action may only be the advice or help of someone on this forum posting something that could be of relevence.
Consensus seems to be we are in for the long wait, both from information provided by individuals on here and professional people and that is the approach I am taking. What I want today, may not be what i want in a years time, things change as we've all found out with buying at SADM, who'd have thought we'd be in this position now at the same period last year, can anyone forecast what we'll be thinking or doing this same time next year, I very much doubt and if they can, please PM me with 6 lottery numbers and it'll take away all the worry and pain this current situation has caused.
regards
Darren
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Darren
I sent my Lawyer a copy of my Bank Guarantee in May and he says it is OK. The bank also admit they have a copy of the bank guarantee but they do not have the original (it appears San Jose had this). The problem we have at the moment is getting a duplicate original copy as this is needed to execute in court. I do not think the bank are querying the authenticity of the Guarantee but they do say we need an original copy.
Jane
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Hi All
My BG has both the words AVALA & aval on it when it was issued I asked my agent to send the original to my solicitor,
I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I will ask to see the original one
she has the originals of every communication I took photocopies for my file knowing I would be moving
Jonik you are probably the luckiest perosn with a current bank guarantee
GAL
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Great Auntie Linda
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Julie I asked about the no win no fee situation in Spain some time back. Martin at Abolex posted on this forum that Spanish Law does not permit it but he is doing a 50% now and the remainder at the end of the process I believe.
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Linda Needham
La Alberquilla
Jumilla, Murcia
R4 308 For Rental
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Hi Darren and hi all.
Just a few comments on the post from Darren that starts the present thread:
Official Bank Guarantees - It is true not everyone has a bank guarantee. Unfortunately, some of the bank guarantees I have been sent were no BG at all; and some BG that are 100% correct, are refused by the banks. As Maria de Castro and some others have said on these forums, BG's will need to be executed in Court as banks don't want to attend them. The reason being (in my opinion) is that probably they get away with 50% of clients that do not pursue the BG and just end on the list of the administration process. I can only recommend those with a BG must execute it in Court. Costs will be recovered as these have to be assumed by the bank (by Law).
Timescales - No one can yet set a time scale for this case. It should take between 1 - 2 years unless something really big happens. 5 years is far too much in my opinion. In any case, time will say.
Charges - I can only speak for myself on this one. All our clients have in writing (by email) a fixed quotation of fees which vary from 1.000 to 2.500 Euros approx, depending on the amount claimed. Our fees follow the Alicante Law School Fees and only needs to be added on top the Procurador fees (between 300 and 600, again depending on the amount claimed). Someone that says there will be "extra charges" like "Court fees", etc, is either not knowing what he is talking about or deliberately "leaving it open" for obvious reasons.
Deposits - It would be the first time in 7 years that I see a developer that actually uses an escrow account to leave client's funds secure. No, I don't think any funds are secured, except for those covered by a BG. Otherwise, everyone would have a BG.
I.V.A Inclusion - The creditors lists for both "Herrada del Tollo" and "San Jose Inversiones" have missed the VAT (7%). We are including for all our clients a warning to the Court of this situation, asking them to formally request the administrators to rectify this situation.
Once again I insist that anyone wanting to know if their name is on the list of creditors and for how much, please feel free to pm me or email martin@abolex.es.
Kind regards
_______________________ Martin de La Herran Sabick
Abogado / Lawyer (reg. 851 Jerez)
www.abolex.es
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Hi, can anyone advise me on a legal stance I wish to persue against my now ex Lawyer firm (recommended by our Agents in good faith). I have employed Iberbrit on LaManga who I trust implicitly, but wrote advising my previous Lawyer based in Murcia (who I wont expose at this point in time), that I was dispensing with their services. I paid this Company 1200 euros in advance of gaining BG's, notary Power of Attorney fees, etc right up to completion. I wrote explaining my reasons for dispensing with them and have only a a note back through my Agents saying they will not be refunding any money (despite our signed Contract stating quite clearly the charges in advance and for what - few of which was ever done - especially obtaining the BG). I cannot believe that having written twice now asking for an explanation and a breakdown of costs incurred to-date), that I havent even had the common decency of a reply from them and not just a message via my Agent!
Has anyone else experienced this? Can anything be done or offer me advice?
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Sal
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Wasn't sure which thread to put this but thought I'd leave instructions on accessing the information on the site for the 'Registro Publico de Resoluciones Concursales'
I can only find the administrator details at the moment. Can't see any data for creditors yet though.
1) Go to https://www.publicidadconcursal.es
2) Then select 'deudores concurasales' (I think any of the three options bring up the same page)
3) Select 'Concurso' from the drop down menu
4) Enter 275/2008 in the box
5) Click on 'Aceptar' button
This will give you details of 'Herrada del Tollo' administrators. I believe the number for San Jose is 278/2008 but nothing seems to appear for this.(I assume the same administrators are appointed for SJ)
If I find out any more I'll post it.
Regards,
Steve.
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Hi Martinbrothers, I have had the same experience. I dispensed with my lawyer as they failed to pursue obtaining a BG . We paid them 2000e includig IVA for legal fees for house purchase, 500e for wills, and 348 for NIE numbers. We asked for a refund of 2000e as we have no house purchase at the moment.. They point blank refused to refund anything and claimed they had done work on contracts, wills, and NIE numbers. I pointed out we had paid for work done on wills and NIE`s and they still refuse to refund money paid in advance for the house purchase. To add insult to injury they were prepared to represent us in the Administration process and give us a discount and would only charge us 11,000e plus IVA. They were prepared to refund the money we had left in a provision of funds account a whole 193e. I think they are behaving dreadfully, as they are playing on the fact that we dont know our consumer rights in Spain. Any advice on how to get a refund would be great. Cheers Joanniemac
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Joanniemac,
My first thoughts would be to obviously find a friendly lawyer who will at least give you some advice and be prepared to take on your work and advise you on getting this money back. Even what you paid for wills and nie was a bit over the top. As for the 11,000€ quoted , I can only assume that they were quoting 10% of your monies owed and using the Spanish Law College rule of thumb on litigation, however, administration is not litigation and they should know this and not even be suggesting such an amount.
I think this type of behaviour is what makes it difficult to trust the legal system wherever it is. But there are some good legal people on these forums and they might be a good starting point.
Perhaps we should have a 'USwitch' type of web site where you can see at a glance the quality of service and costs of each.
Regards,
Steve.
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Hi Steve, thanks for the advice. I will speak to my new lawyer about trying to get a refund. I have been consumed with the SJ situation as are others, and had put the refund to the back of my mind, it was only when I saw Martinbrothers post that it brought it back . Cheers Joanniemac
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Hi Joanmatic, we had done the same thing, other priorities you may say.. but now I am beginning to tar the whole total procedure with the same brush I have given a copy of the old Contract to our new Lawyer who suggested in the first instance writing with my views and a polite request. I will now persue and name and shame should this not happen after my next letter... Then will look at adding a 'relatively' small cost in a Legal Letter in the grand scale of things... hey ho
Take care everyone
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Sal
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my sincere apologies joanniemac for your name spelt incorrectly. its either red mist today or new glasses which still had the labels on the front!
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Sal
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