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This topic is meant to invite opinions so an open discussion is very good.
Some facts though to clarify the issues. Dishes pointing in the right direction is a very British point of view. For Spanish, French, German, Danish, Dutch, Italian, etc owner dishes have to point at another direction. That's why i'm in favour of a dual solution system. The large expensive Sky dishes as well as the much cheaper and smaller Astra dishes for the rest of Europe should be included.
The initial price for the communal dishes only with basic connection capabilities will be around 100- 150E a person. This is without connections to your apartment and possible decoders. That will be considered a hefty investment for people who are not interested.
Aircon installation is regulated not only by our internal rules but also by the basic law on horizontal property. You are under no circumstance allowed to change the architectural look of the building or disturb your neighbours unnecessarily except when this is explicitly ruled by the community. So yes, the aircon has to be low and can’t certainly be installed on division walls blowing out hot air to the neighbours balcony.
Putting on dishes, aircons or whatever on communal areas (roof, outside walls etc) is strictly forbidden. You are liable for any damage that occurs as a consequence of it and will be forced to remove or change the installation.
These are not rules made by me, the real president or the administrator, but basic laws on horizontal property in Spain (btw comparable to those in the UK).
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The administrator is happy to inform everyone, but the only thing he got from Arrohabitatge is a list of telephone numbers from lawyers. No addresses or other contact informatin. They are desperately trying to get hold of your information and that's why you got these forms with the question to fill them and provide as much information as possible. They provide information through their website as a fallback system but would be more than happy to sent letters or e-mails if they had solid informaton where to to sent it to.
They have hired a translator for the last minutes and although I'm not completely convinced of his or her skills it's looking much better than the automatic Bablefish translations. At least it's readable and understandle, So they do understand the needs of the foreign community and try to accomodate them as best as possible. However so far they hardly got any forms back so they still don't know who you are, what apartment you possess, what your e-mail account, postal address or telephone number is so it's difficult for them to communicate with you.
This message was last edited by max! on 12/7/2007.
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Oh forgot to inform you about the security situation. We are researching a more permanent and solid solution, but so far we won the pissing contest with the developer for the third time. The guard is still here in spite of all the threats to withdraw him the day after the last meeting or in november or at least in December etc. Can't expand on it, but rest assurered....
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Just to clarify my earlier post about aircon units on dividing walls I wasn't for a moment suggesting that they could be mounted on the top of the dividing wall between terraces blowing hot air into the neighbours, in fact I mentioned a pvc frame I have seen used in another development which closes off the gap at the top of these walls. Obviously the units would have to be mounted lower down on the wall.
As for my comment about dishes pointing in the right direction, that was a joke, Max!  I imagine that 2 dishes on top of each block will accomodate most people's requirements but we do need to sort this issue out quickly and at a reasonable cost. I have seen ads on Sur in English newspaper from more than one advertiser offering Sky Digital fully installed including Pace Digibox, 1.3 metre Gibertini Dish, support & LNB for a total of €499. If you subtract €150 for the digibox that leaves €349 for the dish, cable, LNB and installation which divided among say 20/25 owners in a block comes out at around €14/18 per person. I know this is a little simplistic and with a second dish the figure could double but I still can't see how this can get to the figure of €100/150 Max mentioned below when the cost is being shared out by all owners. Obviously I am missing something so I would appreciate more info on this.
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Hi Gericomm,
I completely understood that you didn't think putting up aircon on the division wall was the way to go but I just want to reiterate the problems we face with people doing just that.
And yes of course I understood the dish direction was a joke, but I also want to make sure that this forum is as international as possible. We get lots of mails from people from f.i. Scandinavian countries and I want to make clear that I'm not acting on this forum or as vice-president as a spokesperson for the British/Irish community but for all the foreigners who are able to read English.
I consider that very important because I want DJ to become a real community without division lines between nationalities. So maybe it sounded it a bit firm but I sometimes want to make that statement. At the end of the day we will be a community with lots of Spanish, lots of Brits, lots of Irish, but also some Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Dutch, italian and German people (and maybe more). The thing you can't see on this forum but which is high on my daily agenda is building bridges with the Spanish and explain to them why the foreigners sometimes have different attitudes or opinions. I want a working community and that means being as cross-cultural as possible. This message was last edited by max! on 12/7/2007.
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Max, I suggest advising the administrators to add another item to the agenda for the forthcoming meeting. That is what people are allowed to build or put up in their private garden areas. I think this is just as important an issue as SKy / Air Con etc otherwise there will more instances of owners putting up what they like e.g. a shed which blocks others views!
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Hi RG,
I have shown the administrator the explicit passage in the purchasing contract for the garden owners. So he is now aware that the private contract prohibitis all fixed structures, tiling, decking, roofing etc of the garden. I also pointed out that the shed may be removable, but the layer of concrete beneath it is not. They are looking into it at the moment.
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Hi if people are being asked for more for a shared sky/dish everyone will just put there own up and what a mess this will be 3 shared or 20/24 ?or 200 court cases to get them down bye irene
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I think we need to be careful about "blanket bans" and ensure they apply to really important issues of big nuisance value etc. Putting a shed in your private garden could certainly be described as a structure but adding a bit of tiling, decking paving or artificial grass for instance is an entirely different matter and should be allowed in my opinion. What about a barbecue ?
People who want to legitimately improve or enhance their property or it's appearance should surely be given every encouragement.
I can see why satellite dishes and aircon units can raise some concerns but other communities in Spain manage to find a balance in all these matters and it is up to each of us as members of our community to make our wishes known. I think the governing principle should be flexibility and the desire to accommodate as many as possible without infringing the rights of others to enjoy their property and the communal facilities. This message was last edited by gericom99 on 12/7/2007.
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I can't understand or see why some rules for the community were not in place at completion for important things. The developers should have made some preliminary rules at completion rather then leave everything for the community to sort out some months after. E.g. certain types of air con install create a real mess (especially if you want cooling / heating of the back bedroom) of the apartment and is best done right after completion and definitely not something you want to do after the furniture has been delivered. This would have eliminated a lot of misunderstandings and frustrations amongst owners.
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I agree RG. I think it's a real pity that provision wasn't made for aircon units in the design considering that they are to many people a real necessity and are to be seen everywhere. Even if provision had been made for the wiring and connections it would have been something. At least a place was provided on each block for satellite dishes.
On another subject, I wonder what is happening regarding the swimming pools. Can we be sure that they will be in operation for Spring 2008?
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Hi Gericom, I agree, it's just another flaw in the design of this development an ill thought out design by the developers not to consider that people will need air con. Especially as these days most modern apartment complexes come with air con at the very least pre installed as standard and it is the main source of heating and cooling (just as central heating is here in the UK). In any case I can't see how they can suddenly apply rules to everyone else when back in February long before completion some of the penthouses already had the air con units installed (as can be seen in photos posted around that time in the photos section). Again with the pools I would have thought that the developers should have had these ready and running prior to expecting people to complete on their apartment purchases. But nobody (including people's lawyers etc) seem to care and were completing regardless. If everyone had held back and not have completed unless the developers had the communal areas fully functioning i,e the pools, lifts etc. I am certain then the developers would have raced to get everything working but they know that the laziness of the lawyers and peoples impatient to complete were on their side. 188 people saying no can be very effective!
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The lack of working pools is affected by the problems with water supply. This is expected to be resolved within the next few (Spanish) weeks. The bad news is we will then all start having to pay for water. The good news is pressure can be put on the Developer to get the pools commissioned before the summer.
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David
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Below is the agenda for the meeting with my comments in italics:
AGM January 26th at 11.00AM (1st call) 11.30AM 2nd call) in Fuengirola Park Hotel
Agenda
1) Last minute Reading
This should be straightforward. The only possible complication would be if the developer turns up and disputes the minutes
2) General analysis of exercise 2007. Decision with respect to the reception of the book of the building and other breaches
The book of the building is the equivalent of As Built Drawings which are required to be handed over to the administrator so that he has a full specification for the property he is managing.
3) Accounts Balance 2007.
4) Approval of budgets 2008. Possibility of security services
Clearly items 5 and 6 can also effect the budget
5) Study of report of construction incidences. Approval if it comes for the demand by incidences and defects of work and in case of approval:
a) Hiring of architectronic report, approval of possible special taxes
b) Appointment of lawyer, approval of possible special taxes
My interpretation of this is that if the developer does not agree to fix the problems we will need 1st to get an architect to confirm that they are problems that need to be fixed and if necessary go to court to get the developer to fix them
6) Satelite dishes. Determination on its installation
Self explanatory
7) Several subjects, requests and questions
Any other Business!
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David
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Hi all,
Again of course David and I discussed and assessed this upcoming meeting . One of the hidden agenda points is to appoint David as a formal ‘vocal’ meaning a no body without formal influence but as I consider it very important that we have a proper British/Irish representative on the board I will make sure he has the information he needs to do a proper job and have his influence by listening to him.
So when the times come for the proxies and you want to be precise please add that agenda point and vote in favor of his appointment.
I have lots of clients who are not speaking out on the forum, but their opinions are quite clear. They have major problems paying through the community fees for damages done by individuals. The majority of these damages seem to be due to the installments of the satellite dishes on the communal roofs.
The roof itself is damaged because the installer laid out some concrete on a pebbled roof. According to professional builders this means that the membrane underneath the pebbles protecting the roof from rain etc will be damaged. Not necessarily tomorrow but unavoidably in a few years time. I can’t judge this myself, but I have spoken to at least three people who claim to be professional builders or even own companies in that field and they all agree on this it.
Secondly (and this doesn’t require a professional builders evaluation) there are holes drilled near the penthouses into the communal walls for the privately installed dishes. This doesn’t look nice and at least one owner of a penthouse is complaining to me about it.
Thirdly nearly all the cabinets where the cables for our future communal dishes are located are broken open with brute force by the installer. The guy who maintains the community property refuses at the moment to repair them as he says ‘it will happen again and again and it’s too costly to keep on repairing these'. The dish installer (always the same company by the way) doesn’t have a key to these compartments but being the cheapest at the Costa he just breaks them open leaving us with cabinets which are vulnerable to vandalism and rain. Some blocks have been without Spanish television (the preinstalled one) for a week or two because of it.
Fourth: the thin layer of concrete on which these dishes are fixed (on communal roofs) are not really fixed to the roof itself (a godsend considering the possible damages!) but also very dangerous. Our area is well know for fierce winds and it’s a matter of time before one dish with it’s tiny slab of concrete blows away and lands somewhere. Hopefully not on another person but there is no guarantee.
This in my opinion has to be remedied as soon as possible. The whole idea that people damage the building structurally while they could have easily gotten away with a dish on their own terrace as a temp solution is not only strange, but means that we will have a major fall-out in the community. Who is liable and who has to repair the structural damages? Most of my clients say they are refusing to pay for damages made by individuals but I would like to hear to EOS community on this issue. There is no way we can avoid this issue at the coming AGM so let’s prepare for it and think about and express our views on this issue in advance
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Hi Max and David
As we have been very civlised and patient about our request for satellite TV ( or its equivalent ) and will wait until the AGM voting has been done - We are not prepared to pay for any costs incurred by others who have chosen to just go ahead without the community approval -We agree that it does not form part of the community fees
In our opinion if things like this need to be addressed then a separate fund for these damages needs to be set up and all those who have caused damage should be the only ones contributing to it - Why should the majority have to suffer and be penalised by the minority....................
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I have just seen my apt for the first time and as i was walking up the path there was dog muck on the garden and path i was horrified by this as i have small granchildren going out soon and if they fall near this they can get a eye infection and go blind .I thought dogs where not allowed to dirty on the grass in spain and there should be a dog area for this like at the end of the path there is a lay bay for cars and it woud be easy to pick up the dog muck from the path.All the ares looked good and they have put up street signs and new bins in the garden area and the notice board by the front door is very good to.The only thing with the small bins is that people are useing these bins for house hold rubbish eg milk packets and as i was leaving today some one had taken the rubbish out and layed it at the side of our path to let some one see that is not the place to put it.Also people are leaving rubbish on top of the cable boxes by apts .There is two skips and bins are they not enough for are rubbish??i think they are. Our bins are up the hill to much for some?I dont know where people leave there brains on the plane or what sorry for this but if peter can walk up the hill to the bins after having three brain operations and walk up the hill with a walking stick with are rubbish so can everyone else.We need to put a notice upfor the dog owners to stop the dogs using the garden area please thank you irene/peter
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Hi
I agree with Westport the pools should be open for at LEAST six months. Can we use the pool without a security guard if the pools are kept locked, its seems such a silly rule to have to have a lifeguard after all the seas, oceans, ponds and rivers etc are not locked. I would like to ask if someone would discuss these issues. I would have been there if the dates in January had been slightly different, its a shame because I would have loved to be there.
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Janmet
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