Who should be next UK PM?

Not very impressed with Andrew Neil, he is good at bullying less intelligent people than himself but I thought he was far too dogmatic with these 2 and did not come across well.

I know his reputation as a Rottweiler is the norm but not his best performance.

I thought both candidates handled themselves reasonably well in his provocation.

Boris still not easy answering direct questions, perhaps too much optimism and low on realism.

General election very likely soon imho.

If the Govt didn’t  deliver Brexit and there was a general election, the talk is that both major parties would be badly affected as the Brexit party would act as a magnet for “leavers” and the remain voters would split across Lib Dems, SNPs and The Greens?

 The recent EU Parliamentary votes in the UK however demonstrated support for the Brexit party but the turnout was not as large as the referendum vote. Having said that these MEPs could be disruptive in the EU Parliament, so the establishment won’t want this, which adds to the pressure on the EU and UK negotiators to find a mutually beneficial deal, which includes resolving the backstop arrangements.

I really think that IF a way around the Backstop could actually be agreed by both sides, then it may well get parliamentary removal.

You right the EU will not want continued disruption from Brexit Group.

Not sure that the EU parliament really cares about 29 Brexit MEPs against a total of 751.   That does not add to the pressure to reopen the WA negotiations.  SNP will carry the vote in Scotland.

The Labour Party will fight the election as remain. 

The only question is will there be a coalition of Lab-Lib Dem-Green or LibDem-Lab-Green.

Brexit is dead.  You heard it here first.  

A few questions...

Wouldn’t that sort of rhetoric re labour fighting any election as remain give a boost to the Brexit party who have always suggested that UK Parliamentarians were never going to pay heed to the democratic referendum vote? 

Re disruption of the EU Parliament hasn’t the suggestion from the Centre for European reform think tank been that 

“Potentially more disruptive is the temporary status of the incoming Brits, (73 in total) which could upset the delicate balance of power between Parliament’s major political groups.

The Parliament spends the first months of its terms forming the coalitions that will confirm the new slate of European commissioners, including the Commission president, in the fall. They also select the powerful rapporteurs and committee chairs that will drive the policy discussions for the next five years.

With Brexit delayed until Halloween, the U.K.’s MEPs will be part of the Parliament exactly at this critical time.

“British MEPs will have to be included in the whole game of thrones,” said Agata Gostyńska-Jakubowska, senior research fellow at the Centre for European Reform think tank. “These elections, irrespective of the result they will bring, will bring a certain chaos in the internal working of the European Parliament.”

For the Parliament’s power brokers, the British presence — and the uncertainty about whether the U.K. will ever leave at all — sets up a dilemma.

The Parliament’s game of musical chairs will be even messier than expected.

Do they include the British presence in the negotiations over committee heads and the top jobs in the European Commission — essentially allowing the U.K. to have a say in the coming years of Brussels policymaking?

Or do they negotiate under the assumption that the British MEPs will be gone by the end of the month? Then what happens if the U.K. decides to revoke Article 50, cancelling Brexit? Will the MEPs from one of the EU’s largest countries be expected to sit out from committee chairs and rapporteur positions for the next five years?

“It is putting the individual political groups in a very difficult position,” said Gostyńska-Jakubowska, “because it is difficult for them to think strategically, long-term.”

It will, but on the basis of 20% vote share for each party, Brexit and Tory will not be able to form a government.

it is one thing to vote Brexit in EU elections it is another to trust them with the U.K. Parliament.  

EU will be overjoyed at UK remaining and the slight thorn of having to deal with Farage & Co will be just fine.  Chances are they will only attend ten percent of the time, not vote and not join any panels.  

Even if the labour leadership come out in support of remain, wouldn’t  some labour MPs who actually respect their own constituents decision to leave in the referendum, support a deal? They would never be forgiven for not respecting their constituents democratic decision, would they?

Or are you suggesting that the EU establishment have no intention of seeking a mutually beneficial deal and were just waiting for labour leadership to come out in favour of remain, and in that process are “ happy “ to disrespect one of their nation states citizens democratic decision to leave?  (And repeated in the EU parliamentary elections). 

In other words for both of these political “organisations” is this purely a political power game that pays scant regard to citizens democratic decision making? 

And they wonder why there is such disillusionment in a system where citizens are scapegoated in this power game and treated so disrepectfully.

I wonder if citizen disillusionment has been completely underestimated in this regard, and may backfire in them voting for a party that tries to restore some democratic order and respect for those it is supposed to represent?

The U.K. was offered a deal by the EU, it refused to ratified what was mutually agreed.  The reason is simple, the radical  right wants fantasy.  The rest of us want to remain.   Parliament is finally recognising that.  The true will of the people, to remain, is at hand.  

The error is not to recognise that this is not a tribal right or left issue ......it is a citizen issue where they want their voices and decision making to be respected.

Yes, and that works for both leave and remain

And the citizen leave vote WON the referendum (and there was also a UK majority for leave in the more recent EU parliamentary election) which should be recognised and respected.

You cant pick and choose to ignore who won, as and when it suits!!

Just crazy... the majority have demonstrated their desire to leave, in not one but two elections....

The EU must recognise this if they value democracy and must not close down the ongoing negotiations on the premise that a deal was agreeed that had not been ratified by the peoples parliament!

The new leader must ensure that they reflect the majority peoples votes in both elections relating to EU membership and anything other than this is not democratic.

Perrypower

A majority of voters, albeit small voted to leave the EU.

A majority of MPs preferred to remain even they stood at an election in 2017 supporting the triggering of Article 50.

The impasse has always been, who decides on policy for the U.K., the electorate OR its elected representatives?

IF, big IF a new PM & team could persuade the new EU that itis everyone’s interests to do a deal, then it’s just possible that Labour MPs following the wishes of their voters, may support a deal, IF not a no confidence vote will be the only way of preventing NO Deal as parliament has so far voted NO to everything but YES to triggering Article 50.

Tories would do a deal with Brexit not to contest Northern Labour seats and Labour, Lib Dem’s etc. would presumably do a deal to appeal to Remain voters.

The result once again would be quite close, the nature of global politics, so what does that prove or tell us?

Ireland exports much of its produce to Europe via Dover etc. Will it be in their interests to see 20 minute delays in lorry movements of fresh produce.

EU GDP is currently slowing even quicker than U.K. due to the same uncertainties, European governments will need to make sure a deal is in place in order to prevent NO Deal for which there remains much support among the people.

Brexit is dead.  Just waiting for the documents to get signed.   Surely no one actually doubts that is the current will of the people

The final showdown debate today between the two candidates.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4afF-SKXCO8

(Fast forward about 17/18 mins to start).

Brexit has become a three billion pound vanity project for the nasty Tory party and their ugly step sister The Brexit Party.  They do not care about poverty.  That is why there are children during school holidays having to rely on food banks in what is suppose to be fifth or sixth richest country in the world.  

And that my friends is why there was a protest vote in 2016 for Brexit.  

Not so Perrypower.

As debated on many occasions many were disillusioned with the impact from EU decision making that subsequently impacted the UK. This has been demonstrated across many political persuasions both at referendum level and the recent EU parliamentary elections in the UK.

With regard to accountability, many want to rightly tackle their own MPs on issues of poverty and the like from within, and feel that accountability from the impacts from decision making by the EU has been nigh on impossible given their remoteness far removed from citizens control. 

Whether supporters of Brexit or not, many sincerely care about issues associated with poverty but wish this to be tackled within their own parliamentary democracy, especially when EU Commissioners have sadly failed to recognise and respond to the knock on impact from their own decisions on the UK.

It’s not so black and white as you suggest, as  disillusionment in political establishments has arisen not solely with UK Parliamentarians as you infer but also at EU level.

Where the difference lies however is that many who voted to leave don’t want outside interference which impacts in such a way as to cause major concerns, over which they had little democratic control. They understandably don’t want to be denied accountability and control and the current status quo with the EU and the way it is structured with 27 other member states and a ruling EU Commission taking greater control currently challenges that desire.

As stated on many occasions let’s hope that a good civilised deal can be finally achieved going forward and that UK citizens can also continue to make their own MPs accountable within their own democratic system, no matter which political party ( or alliance) is in power.

Whether supporters of Brexit or not, many sincerely care about issues associated with*** poverty ***but wish this to be tackled within their own parliamentary democracy, especially when EU Commissioners have sadly failed to recognise and respond to the knock on impact from their own decisions on the UK.

ads, what poverty are you talking about? also where is this poverty?

Brexit was a protest vote against the Nasty Tories, pure and simple.   There is no point trying to read more into it than that.

Poverty affects millions of people in the UK. Poverty means not being able to heat your home, pay your rent, or buy the essentials for your children. It means waking up every day facing insecurity, uncertainty, and impossible decisions about money. It means facing marginalisation – and even discrimination – because of your financial circumstances. The constant stress it causes can lead to problems that deprive people of the chance to play a full part in society.

• An estimated 14.2 million people in a family are in poverty in the UK
• 8.4 million are working-age adults, 4.5 million are children, and 1.4 million are of pension age
• Around 22% of the public are in poverty, and nearly 33% of children
• 58% of those in poverty are in “persistent poverty” (people who would also have fallen below the poverty line in at least two of the last three years). 
• Working-age people in poverty are increasingly likely  to be in working families
• Most poverty rates aren’t all that different to what they were at the start of the 2000s. The most marked reduction has been in pensioner poverty, it is almost half as common as it was back in 2000, while rates for working-age adults are now slightly higher
• Poverty rates fell in the years after 2010, as the UK recovered from the financial crisis, but are now showing clear signs of rising again

Poverty is relative to the income levels of the country and was exacerbated in this circumstance when austerity in the UK was required to deal with major debt caused by the Banking crisis and sudden uncontrolled movements of people that led to zero hours contracts, major impacts on infrastructure, housing , health system, education system, transport system, social care system, leading to food banks, and homelessness, that in turn all of which had to be dealt with by increased spending that further impacted the country’s debt, which at that time in turn required increased debt repayments. 

A cycle of events, some of which were significantly impacted by the EUs refusal to recognise the uncomfortable realities at time of asking, associated with freedom of movement policy, I.e. at a time when the economic pressures on the UK were immense.

The Joseph Roundtree Foundation has one set of figures while other sources have a different set, so who do you believe?

It's stated that only 7.3% are in persistent poverty which equals to 4.6 million of the population.

33.4 Million are working, while 9.2 are over the age of 65.

Subscription to paid TV is 15.4 million close to half who are working.

Go to any large shopping centre and see the buyers, okay perhaps credit cards but what ever still has to be paid for.

Thousands of new cars are being leased and have to be paid for.

Someone is buying all the new build houses that are springing up everywhere.

Maybe the Tories are not the best to have as leaders, are Labour so much better then? Well, better at letting you believe you are wealthy while borrowing money left right and centre for sure that is,  remembering what Brown said when he went, wasn't it something along the lines of 'There is no money left'.

The only thing that has affected the UK from the EU is that the UK has had no leaders with backbone to stand up to the EU and use the laws and rules we already had, and have in place.

These two we have in the running now are not worth the clothes they stand up in.