Who should be next UK PM?

Likewise Baz maybe if the EU, well in advance of any referendum, had spent enough time to reflect upon the actual impact of their own decisions that were putting excessive pressure on the proper functioning of the UKs public services (already overstretched and not helped by denying the UK a timely change to apply a realistic break to in-work benefits of newly arrived EU migrants, as already identified) , plus a fair and more level system on the lifting of entry restrictions, then perhaps things might have been very different.

The realities however spoke reams of a system that failed to listen to growing UK citizen concerns until a breaking point was reached. To expect UK citizens to continue down that road in full knowledge that EU reform and willingness to listen and respond to such excessive pressures with all that this entails is not an option, is totally unacceptable to many who live in the UK I'm afraid.

UK citizens living in the UK have not been "doing alright " as you suggest by EU decisions, and when you observe the many "got over thats" , as you put it, I'm sorry but we didn't get over it.... we were drowning in it until a break point was reached. This is the sad reality that many who were not exposed to it every day failed to recognise.

As for expats living and/or working in Spain, so long as the UK still protect established rights (which the UK Govt have already committed to, so long as they are not abusive of the UK system ), and UK expats remain of economic benefit to Spain, then you should have little to be fearful of.

Currency fluctuations will always play a factor (as they have always done), but once the UK is allowed to move on unhindered following Brexit and a civilised trading deal etc is accomplished, as residents you will continue to depend upon the EU respecting your rights in Spain, and have to live in hope that Spain is not equally compromised by EU decision making as sadly was the case with the UK.

Surely ads it has been the job of the UK's MP's to sort out any changes made to the UK by the EU that didn't benefit us, not the other-way round, if we accepted these changes how did the EU know we didn't like them, seems to me that every last member of our establishment just went along with every new EU rule without question.

I didn't actually say 'Been doing all right' I repeated what windtalker said, and he actually added 'Without you lot' meaning the ones that left the UK presumable, didn't make that much sense either considering the small amounts that left the UK to the amount still living here.

I think considering the way the EU has been that we are doing so-so and we have still lived, again considering the stuff the EU has placed on us.

I honestly don't know the true in's and out's of the way the EU works in relation to many things that affect us, no defence for ignorance I know, but I have grown up with the EU to a certain extent, yes bundles of red tape, paperwork, rules, etc etc, but for my part I have done what I have done on my own since coming out of the forces, and I had none what you might call trade skills from them, same for a lot of people like me, and all while we have been in the EU it has to be said, so it would seem many of us have done alright, or perhaps okay is the better word.

I just wish now so much more, honest facts, had been explained to us by our people.

Ever this dope Boris has no idea what the outcome of coming out means truely, only a couple of years ago the UK was firmly part of the EU and he praised it up.

You can't fight the Mastricht Treaty and arrangements conducted under that guise, I'm afraid. These were the rules that made us complicit. Where our Politicians went wrong was agreeing to such a treaty in ignorance of the ramifications, and all endeavours to reform the treaty were met with intransigence, so we were on a losing wicket from the outset of those agreed changes.

This is where education of realities kicks in. But education for its own sake is not enough and citizens now need to ensure that they are more engaged in accountability. We can't afford to remain apathetic and ignorant of complex issues, so we depend upon those who provide information (from all sides) and make fair and reasoned judgements accordingly. But one thing for sure is that we cannot afford to remain in ignorant bliss.

But we learn from the exercise and have the choice now to re-address our own strategy going forward, without the hindrances of the unreformed treaty that has sadly left us compromised...., but in that process we must continue to make UK politicians accountable..

It looks like .. what  ever proposal the UK makes .. with regards to a trade  deal with the EU it is going to be rejected by the EU ..basically it is not in the EUs interest give us a deal in any shape or form as they can't afford to let the UK leave ...so it certainly looks like the UK is going to leave without one .. doing this is going to cause widespread manufacturing problems within the remaining members ..as they will not be able to trade / export goods in to the UK without permission of the EU parliament ...so as I said before I predict widespread rioting across the so called EU .. when the EU orders Farmers/Factory's within the EU to stop supplies to the UK.

That is the very reason why its in the interests of the EU to agree to a mutually acceptable deal and all we can hope is that members states pressure the EU Commission for such a deal..

And a strong UK negotiating team that no longer allows the EU to dictate terms that are so unacceptable to the UK as a whole, is why we have to now hope that the negotiating team (emphasis on team as opposed to one person), are well experienced and sufficiently knowledgeable of the realities and are now willing and fully committed to make adequate preparations in the interim, to minimise the risks wherever possible, should the no deal scenario arise.

But one aspect that has not been sufficiently covered to date is the following:

The EU Commission is undemocratic, mainly unaccountable for its failings, and the EU Parliamentarians should be supporting citizens to address this problem. The problem with that is that there are 27 member states each understandably pulling in their own directions, each with their own needs and agendas, each with their own varying debt levels and economic needs, and the UK has been just one member in that structure...yes frequently calling for reform...but this has largely gone unheeded by an EU Commission intent on its own federal aspirations, far too removed from the citizens it is meant to represent I'm afraid.

As for talk of what was intended...this is far removed now from what has actually been delivered, and unless there is major reform I fear that the economic structure of the eurozone will be massively compromised under the weight of unresolved debt, all too often hidden from view by "creative accounting".

It's highly complex but important nevertheless that the EU Parliament now stand up to the Commission in the upcoming years and face up to the mounting debt levels that increasingly depend upon realistic growth strategies without stripping member states of their essential labour forces or exposing them to major compromising factors associated with free movement that impact cohesion.

The EU need do nothing but play the long game.  A deal was struck but the UK reneged.  Sore losers.   

The whole world can see the the four countries of the Kingdom are divided.

Our political parties are miles apart.

Individual parties are divided including the governing one which has a majority of one.

The people are divided.   EOS is divided.

Meanwhile, the EU which according to the last few posters here is failing and falling apart, has managed to keep 27 countries, umpteen parties and 500 million people United.   Sorry tell me again whose got it wrong?

Brexit is dead.   There will be a new PM by Christmas. Long live XR

The EU did not dictate the terms of leaving that is pure propaganda. In fact, what took place was a negotiation and mutually accepted terms signed off by the PM of the day.

Clearly, the withdrawal agreement remains the only method of securing any deal. Johnson will not get anything by pretending to act tough. The EU knows full well he is a charlatan. A general election is inevitable.

The best deal between the so called EU  and the UK would be a no deal..by doing it that way we can start trading from day one ..we can buy goods from the EU .. provided they want to sell them to us ...and we can do the same in return...if the EU want to play hard ball and order the remaining members state's not to deal/trade with the UK ..then the UK will have no other alternative than to wave that big fat cheque book in another direction ...this will bring down the EU if this happens ..after all forget about the political bullshit who on earth is going to buy all this surplus overpriced/ price fixed stock that the EU was manufacturing /farming  for the UK ..the EU would have to put up with widespread rioting if they ordered members not to produce goods and so forth that was destined for the UK markets.

The problem is Windy that those arrogant powers in the EU will still have ample caviar and G&T to consume. At this level they don’t care if half of the EU starves. It’s an I’m alright Jack situation making the decisions. And if it all goes wrong it’s off to the yacht in the Bahamas from both sides.

Mickey

The EU did dictate that they would NOT negotiate any trade deal until a withdrawal deal was agreed, TM accepted that, many would not have.

Perry

Europe is just as divided as U.K., Spain has to hold new elections due to minority government, in France Macron is a busted flush, Germany & Ireland, according to their local press are under pressure from businesses to maintain trade arrangements.

The EU citizens are most certainly NOT united, only the bureaucrats of Brussels are trying to hold on to their cushy numbers.

A U.K. general election will tell us nothing as Boris will run a deal with Farage and Jezza will try to get into bed with Nicola and Swainson, there will be NO majority and no single party government again.

Do which Coalition will win out?

Why is any policy decision the EU commission makes and then implemented always then interpreted by the British as dictation? It was perfectly logical that if the British want a free trade deal after Brexit a withdrawal agreement must first be made. Any fair-minded observer will see that. It was a negotiation and agreement sadly not accepted in parliament. In any case, the debate has moved on somewhat after the recent rightwing coup d'etat in Britain.

The current political difficulties in Spain and elsewhere are a normal part of functioning democratic politics. It does not mean any weakening of the EU project. Quite the au-contraire in fact. One of its strengths is domestic politics functions well outside the structure of the Commission.

Britain will be able to trade with the EU after a no-deal and buy goods from Europe with WTO tariffs imposed and strict border controls like any other third country nation. Good luck with that. Ireland will have a border imposed and the GF agreement will be dead. Johnson has said direct rule will be imposed in that event. Do you believe the Republicans will accept that peacefully? I don't think so. Do you believe European political and social cooperation will continue with a fortress Britain?

The direction of travel for Britain is back to the seventies and isolation. 

Mickyfinn ...I take it you are not British then.

British by birth. European by choice.  

Mickyfinn.British..just like Nicola Sturgeon then.

So the 52% of those who bothered to vote, is a coup d etat is it?

Get real or is anything that the British decide not liked by Europeans by choice then?

You also certainly don’t understand the opinion of the EU by many various European electors.

Many will not dare vote against fir fear of losing their subsidies,

Paid for by who, exactly?

You appear to have forgotten the price the Brits pay for being members of such an exclusive & at times, selfish club.

Mickey

dictate

verb

verb: dictate; 3rd person present: dictates; past tense: dictated; past participle: dictated; gerund or present participle: dictating

/dɪkˈteɪt/

1. 1. 

   state or order authoritatively.

   "the tsar's attempts to dictate policy"

   synonyms:

   give orders to, order about/around, boss (about/around), impose one's will on, lord it over, bully, domineer, dominate, tyrannize, oppress, ride roughshod over, control, pressurize, browbeat; More lay down the law, act the tin god; informalpush around/about, bulldoze, walk all over; call the shots, throw one's weight about/around "my daughter is always dictating to her friends"

   • control or decisively affect; determine.

     "choice is often dictated by availability"

     synonyms:

     prescribe, lay down, impose, set down, set out; More order, command, decree, ordain, direct, pronounce, enjoin, promulgate; determine, decide, influence, affect, choose, control, govern "the government's official position is dictated by the prime minister"

2. 2. 

   say or read aloud (words to be typed, written down, or recorded on tape).

   "I have four letters to dictate"

   synonyms:

   say aloud, utter, speak, read out, read aloud, recite "he sent for his secretary and dictated a letter"

   antonyms:

   write

noun

noun: dictate; plural noun: dictates

/ˈdɪkteɪt/

1. 1. 

   an order or principle that must be obeyed.

   "the dictates of fashion".........................

2. You previously commented that the EU did not dictate the terms of any agreement to leave.

3. So if they make an implement a decision, exactly what is that if not dictation?

4. Why does there need to be a withdrawal agreement, before negotiating an ongoing relationship deal?

Standard alt-right tactics.  Try to discredit genuine criticism of a failing plan and failing PM by arguing that the authors are behaving in a way that is below the standard they set for Britishness.

hugh, talker, neither of you are anymore British than the rest of us.  I don't care if you were born and bred in Whithall or The Palace.  You still put your Union Jack panties on one leg at a time.

Perrypower1.. fantastic how did you know I preferred Union Jack boxer's to EU ones..I think it must have been a good guess on your part.. well since you have let the cat out the bag about how I prefer dress myself ...all I can say is that this true Brit doesn't have to make a foul of themselves by calling himself a European... when the proper term is a emigrant..what ever country outside the one you came from you will always be referred to.. as the emigrant next door by the indigenous population

Hugh -So the 52% of those who bothered to vote, is a coup d etat is it?

No the coup d'etat is the removal of an elected government by the parliamentary party and the coronation by 70K Tory party members of a right-wing junta unelected by the people.

If freedom means anything we are at liberty to consider ourselves to be anything we wish. I have lived in Europe for almost forty years longer than I lived in Britain. I speak French and Spanish and integrate into two communities. All my ancestors were either French or Scottish. I think considering myself a European is valid.

The British are fast becoming victims of a political ideology which will lead them to economic disaster. This will not end well. 

Well I’m most certainly not English and actually half French but choose to live in the U.K. & in Spain but declaring ourselves European is something I have rarely heard in my many years from individuals in any Country.

We are what we are and in the U.K. we are considered generally very Liberal and multicultural, even by European nations.

An EU State is not what anyone in Europe signed up for, they expected a trading bloc and easy movement of goods and people NOT wholesale immigration affecting the lives of individuals.

The resignation of a Prime Minister because Parliament would not agree her deal, by a new leader is not a Coup as the Tory government is still the majority party until such time as any election takes place.

The government of the day is still expected to carry out the law of the land which is to leave the EU in October after 80% of MPs stood at a General Election on a mandate of triggering Article 50.