Legal Informtion

Firstly, my sympathy goes out to the innocent caught up in the recent problems. Not only on the financial front, but it must be a case of you wake up each day with a huge worry on your mind.

Personally I don't think that it is a case of the Spanish turning a blind eye, as it is not just Spain that is suffering. I believe that it is the economic downturn primarily and as a result, it has shown flaws in the system.  

The credit crunch may not have been happening a couple of years ago and if it was, it would have prvented many getting caught. No loans means no home in the sun for majority.
In no way am I saying that developers, lawyers, the system is not at fault, but the current situation has been brought about by the financial climate.
I would assume that if there had not been a financial crisis, SJ could have just borrowed more cash, paid all fees and for Licences, built out, got their cash and moved on to another development and again and agan, until a credit cruch in the future.
As bad as SJ may be, guaranteed they would have preferred to carry on and make some more money.

The real culprits may be the Spanish legal systems, but the same is going to be found in many other Countries where there is mass development aimed at overseas purchasers.

Will it recover?, yes, give it anothyer decade and the next generation will do the same. 
Remember the 90s recession, but many who lived through that have obviously forgotten and borrowed beyond their means.
Those who have been caught out now will learn, but can they guarantee their children and grand-children will learn from it?

Fair words FIN

The difference in now to the 80's seems to me to be that SJ didnt even seem to be hitting targets or even getting close to delivering on promises.

I remember the 80's being about greed and money worship, with lots of 'del boy' types trying to make a fast buck and overtrading or just getting it wrong.

This time i just get the impression its a great big con trick......selling what appears to be a good product, in the right place, at the right time.

BUT JUST NOT DOING IT, NOT EVEN GETTING CLOSE TO DELIVERING, AND IN THE END NOT GIVING A TOSS OR EVEN HAVING A GRAIN OF HUMILITY.

Asi said before......i dont give a monkeys about Spain anymore.......just get me some money back and get lost to the lot of em

Hi FIN,

I agree partly with what you say, and our words are filled with much anger and have to be tempered most of the time.   

I agree that had the Banks continued to loan money then San Jose would have continued and we would have all been none the wiser.  But it does not excuse the illegalities that were already taking place.  What the credit crunch has done has exposed all the irregularities that were once hidden.  

What angers me the most is not having a bank guarantee.  Its not like I didn't know, I was on the phone transferring my money being told it would be released as soon as my money hit the account.  And this will be the crucial point as not having a guarantee makes me an ordinary creditor.  Why should I lose out for someone elses criminal activity.  

Who was enforcing the law on this and previous developments?  I would be interested to know how many laws have been broken during this whole process.  And what is in place to enforce these laws and why they weren't????

I already have a property in Spain as do other members of my family, and that is a whole other can of worms.

Hi

I don't normally reply to this 'off plan thread', however I joined it and others when we looked at Jumilla 2 years ago with the intention of buying.  What rang alarm bells then and put us off buying was that when we asked for a bank guarantee we were told that we could have one but it would cost a % of the deposit.  We were also told that since San Jose are one of the biggest builders in Spain why should we ever need one!!  We ended up buying on a much smaller site at Hurchillo near Orihuela, built by a small reliable builder who completed on time and to a perfect standard and since have enjoyed many holidays. The difference being that this builder builds for the domestic Spanish market, indeed 50% of buyers in our development are Spanish.  I wonder how many Spanish have been affected by San Jose? Not many I would suspect, they would not put up with it.  Many smaller developments inland away from the costas are still being quietly being built with no problems.
Don't write all spanish developments off>
Geoff

I agree it does not excuse the illegalities that were already taking place. But these were already in place and had been for decades, as with quirks in the laws of many Countries, which you would be advised to check out before parting with money to invest in that Country. We should never assume that the comforts and safety you may feel from the UK legal system, can be experienced in other Countries. Why should they have the same laws as us. We do not own or rule all Countries worldwide.

I compliment you on your honest regarding the BG (or lack of) and wonder if we did not have the safety of consumer rights in UK, how many would part with such vast sums of money on the word of a seller telling you they would guarantee something.

In theory and morally you should not lose out for someone elses criminal activity, but the laws of the land and Company laws don't take your losses and hurt into account. 

Nobody needed to enforce the laws on previous developments, as punters were lining up to buy and if it were not for the credit cruch, they probably still would be.

Geoff says don't write off all spanish developments and I agree. Not all are bad. There is good and bad in all Countries. There are still some good developments (albeit not on the Costas and not aimed 100% at tourists) going ahead.
Rogue ice cream vendors trebling the price to tourists during heatwaves in London, doesn't make all vendors crooks and conmen.
It does seem strange that many are now anti Spanish, because of the problems they have experienced with their prospective purchase, but is is not the average Spaniard who is to blame, it is the laws of their land, the financial crisis and general trading difficulties.
I find it easy to understand when I read that after the last world war, all Brits were against the enemy, which carried on until recent decades, but the Spanish people are not the enemy, just because a few thousand have lost their money becaus of the laws of their land.

Hi FIN,

Thank you for your fair comments, but don't misunderstand me the Spanish people are the whole reason I want to spend a portion of my life there.  I have some wonderful Spanish friends who I would do anything for as they would me.  The reason they were mentioned was in relation to comments in EL Pais which blamed the purchasers of Spanish property for creating the bubble which burst. 

I don't doubt that other countries are any better and most are far worse, but we are involved in Spain and that's the part I want to put right.  I noticed today that some common sense was beginning to filter through as councils in Andalucia are trying to pass through amnesties for illegal builds to try to restore some confidence, some common sense at last perhaps.  Because I believe that if the Spanish Government do not address these issues now, the investors will turn their back on Spain and it will take a generation to repair.

As to how many Spanish are involved with SJ in answer to Geof's comments, having seen the creditors list I'd guess about 40%  purchasers were spanish.  Also, there are hundreds of people from the small town of Molins who were encouraged to put money into San Jose (12000 euros being the minimum amount) on a promise that they would double their money in twelve months.  These people were already protesting against the major shareholders for misappropriation of funds well before SJ ever considered administration.

My only hope is that the Banks and the courts use SJ as an example for good practices and give them the finance to continue but tie them down to their legal obligations, and allow purchasers to either continue or request their money back.  If it's a good product and people are confident they are more likely to stick with it and at the same time replace those who want out.  But who am I kidding.  Either way I want my money back now as I have invested elsewhere.

Hi

This is a quick reply, as we will be leaving shortly for the airport to get our flight back to London (for 6 days).  We have been living in Jumilla for just over 3 months, and the people here have been very welcoming, so I would like to agree with previous comments saying don't knock the Spanish people.  

Not only that, we recently visited Zaragoza, and every time we opened a map somebody came up to us to ask whether we needed directions!  I don't think I've seen that happen in London.....!

Sue

 

Just a small intervention it may be true that the current credit squeeze has had an effect on San Jose, Their real trouble started when building work was halted at El Pinet leaving a half built estate with no chance of any return on their expenditure, for the past two an a half years, plus the same situation at Albatera where building commenced apparently without any licences! All of the above did not stop San Jose and their agents still trying to sell property on both sites knowing the situation. That is not honest nor was it honest to say all licences were in place at Santa Ana when clearly they were not.  

Hi All,
just back from Spain and making a very quick posting. I met with Almudena and asked the questions from SARC members and I will be sending them their replies and with their permision and keeping maintaining confidentiality i will  report to all SARC  members and then post it on the SARC website.

I also had a chat with my bank manger whilst there and had a very interesting briefing from my solicitor. 
I will put it all together ASAP and get it on the SARC site and let you all know that it is there.

All the best to you all

I want my house
Tony R17 18

Frightening