Legal Informtion

Hi Briando,
                   Good to see you back in the chair.
brianmags
ps signing off now

Hi all,  to be honest I havent actually read from anyone at any time that they are hoping SJ go under!  We all understand the consequences of that scenario.   Its pretty obvious that every purchases has one common interest here and some really good points have been made (if a little complicated to follow at times) but they offer us the good, the bad and the ugly side.  Hope is one thing but information is knowledge and understanding.  I guess because I am one of the sceptics and have a nasty taste in my mouth at the word San Jose, and SADM,  I cant help but pick out the obvious flawsmade by FIn and the like in the wonderful dream I once had and sometimes we need the reality check.  They keep us on our toes that's all and we should be.  Im not a pessamist by nature but neither am I blinkered into false hope and spin (not these days..but that's now hindsight).  None of us are that clever, we kept giving this Company Deposits without BG's because we believed, we trusted and its most unlikely that we would ever have done this to anyone deliberately.  We are the good folk.

How many of us, if it were possible, would NOT take our money back right now?   Far more than would choose to wait for SADM I suspect.  That means no disrespect to Tony/Brian  and a few but would you really honestly, given choice, trust these people again if they ever get allowed to take control back?  My view is that those who end up having no choice but wait on the never never (if ever)  will do so for that reason only as they have no money  left for lengthy, expensive court costs.   We have been put in a despicable position by this Company and its not all down to Credit Crunch. 

I personally dont mind sifting through the postings and like most, can skip what we dont like if its gets too personal.  Its two strong opinions for both sides.. its good. 

Its was great to read Darren again he helped me enormously when I first joined the Forum and I have to agree with him , I will look after me and mine as will everyone else push comes to shove.  SJ/Administrators  are clearly relying on SARC  - you are a blessing to them guys but just dont get left 4th in the queue when the rest of us are planning escape routes as quick as  we can.

Sal (who needs cheering up!)

Oh brilliant news for a really lovely couple on the Transfer note to Playa III .   

sorrry Fin, your name shouldnt have been typed in the para... must be getting tierd.  

keep posting

Sal

hi i'm new to this forum and have not the time to sift through for relevant info but am extremely concerned about the possibility of loosing my 63000 euros. i would really appreciate someone taking the time to point me in the right direction so i can avoid the sniping and get to the facts (if there are any) maybe if i put down my specific concerns.... 1) as purchasers in jumilla do we have any power as individuals or collectively to influence the judges/court decisions regarding the recovery of our investments?.....my solicitor suggests not,he claims it is just a waiting game but i'm not sure of his experience in such matters. 2)does this message board contain any fact based material regarding the san jose jumilla project or is it just a collection of individuals speculation? 3) if this message board does not contain unbiased fact can anyone point me in the direction of sites that do? 4)am i asking too much thankyou for taking the time to read my posting.

Hi Jameslee, unfortunately theres not a lot of facts on the situation. SJ/HdT are in a mess fact. Chances of getting your money back slim if not near impossible. Santa Ana being built only if they get financed chances slim in the current economic situation. Your solicitor is right, it`s a waiting game,not good for your nerves! Unfortunately the dire situation we all find ourselves in, the fact we all stand to lose a large amount of money does not bring out the best in people, hence the bickering! On the plus side, the people on this forum do share information which can be of help, you just have to sort out  the wheat from the chaff ! Hope this helps. Cheers Joanniemac

thankyou joanniemac i really appreciate you taking the time to respond and understand your point..thanks james

Hi Jameslee,
The situation does not look good at the moment but I wonder if all the gloom merchants out there who keep saying there is no chance of getting back our deposit or our house are still paying solicitors to regester their claim.

According to my Spanish solicitor the builders are going through administration to raise funding for the developement.  It is said they have assets of 300M Euros? or some such figure quoted on this forum, but are still looking to borrow further funding (20m Euros?)

I have just had to wire my solicitor 1100 E to represent me.  I had to find a Notary here to sign and stamp the forms for power of atorney ( myself and wife) £100,  The form has now been sent to the foreign office in London to be stamped (£27), and so it goes on.  If it cost me time effort and more money to try and safeguard my deposit (60,000E) I have no choice.  Get registerd with the court and see what happens next.

I dont think anyone realy knows what is going to happen at this time.  I personaly feel if this project fails and we loose money it would have a bad effect on the Spanish government.  If people stop investing in property (land grap), or in off plan because they dont get built, it will send them into a worst recesion than we are having, as I,m told property makes up for a large part of their econemy.

If things go sour we may have to pay more again in legal costs or pull out.  I have a bank guarantee and a guarantee written into my contract with the builders.  According to my solicitor I am not due a refund unless the house is not built on time (this time next year), If they fold of go into liquidation a claim has to be made now to get a refund.

All we can do now is try and cover ourselves now and see what happens in September.  It has cost me about another Grand but reading this post some solicitors are charging a lot more.  it seems because of the special situation and work involved ( ? ) they have a set cost for this proceedure.

I hope this posting informs others and gives hope.  I want my house if I cant have it I want my money back.

So good luck to all.

Recardo

Well said Recardo,
                  the factthat they only requier 30million euros is possibly in their favour as opposed to what was it 800 million with ta t other company that went to the wall the other week. the other thing is the amount of spanish purchasers with a bit of luck a good wind we might get the SADM project running again
but we all ahve to wait until sept Oct to find out
brianmags
r4 556

Recardo

Exactly right.  We have to make sure we are all covering our backs with a Lawyer/Solicitor that goes without saying and hard as it is we have to just sit tight and wait until the autumn.  There are a lot of people in this situation and the Spanish economy would be hit in a big way if buyers are not treated in a fair way.  A
lot of people tune into these forums to see what is going on, they are aware this would mean certain disaster for the ' would be buyers' in the future.

Chrissie   enjoy your life in the meantime. 

It is all very well to speculate on SJs  assets but how realistic is it in the current economic climate for SJ to to realise these assets ,  what ever the amounts stated as assets how does this equate in real cash terms  . To my mind their assets are worthless right now which in turn gives them no clout to refinance  . Given the economic climate right now it does not seem to be a possibility for them . 
Who if anyone has the financial backing to buy SJs illegal  assets or take over the development of  not yet completely legal sites. Likewise in the current economic climate which financial institution is going to finance SJ . There are safer more secure companies all over the world  being refused finance of any kind . 
As I have said before if  SJ were able to refinance they would have done so before now . They have been trying for more than a year, without success  to secure finance what hope do they have now. Worldwide the banks are not lending .


This message was last edited by julie anne on 8/1/2008.

Good morning Recardo,  I am a little sad as to why you see those of us without BG's who dont believe a word SJ say, who are well past there promised completion dates and who are sending money out to Lawyer's to now deal with our situations, for me promised a transfer to another development on a contract that they shouldnt have even written (as they have absolutely no control over there own Company and owe too much mortgage on it), owe millions of euros and have basically lied to us for the last year... as ' gloom merchants'. If you or someone  can give me one good reason to feel cheerful or optomistic I'd love to hear it!  No disrespect to you at all, but with almost 98,000 euros and having to spend more to 'attempt' get some back appalls me to my core.  This month alone has cost almost a 1000 euros in fees to negotiate with the Administrators (and notary fees).  We have no choice but to keep paying and praying for the situation to have a good outcome, but I havent personally heard of one Lawyer yet who is totally confident of a truely successful outcome either way.. transfer, money back or SADM... its just a horrid waiting game for all of us and its not as if we dont want a bit of good news (for whichever  direction individuals are taking) , just that we havent had anything to base much optomism on.

So I hope they all have a lovely month off in August and come back and sort this mess out and give us a reason to feel cheerful.. Is it still correct that they have to have ALL finances in place by the end of August Brian as was stated at the meeting?? 

Sally (trying to be happy) - i actually do look like this at the moment

 

Sorry Brian, I meant October.?

Sally

Today the offices below us close they are moving the remaining 3 staff to Orihuela. Actually I have thought for sometime it is a total waste having a big office with only 3 people working in it makes economic sense  to me and it must save SJ money 

But there are  9 apartments with residents who have "been left in the lurch". No not quiet true they have put a post box on the wall for our post  the key has been given to one of our neighbours and  on wednesday a note was stuck on all doors telling us the phone number of Playa Golf Sales and Orihuela offices in case of problems.

Sally,

Dont give up!!   Its not like you to be so down. 

You said you would keep fighting for your transfer .. so keep fighting.  You know we managed it, so if we can you can.!

Its only a few weeks until everyone knows the outcome and I know how hard it is to be in limbo, but waiting a few weeks in comparison to the three or four years many people have waited, is not so bad.

Try to stay positive ( and that goes to everyone!) this is the final hurdle, lets hope what everyone wants will come true.

If it is of interest to anyone. 
I have spent about 9 hours in a notaries office here, over a period of 2 weeks. 
I have watched land and property changing hands as if this part of the world is not a part of the rest of it.  I was amazed. 
Last night in the town square (its fiesta time here)  the 2 guys from the notaries office were in Pinoso. I dont  know what they do but I would call them assistants,  and I asked them is it always so busy.  Yes always.  Thats why you had to wait so long to see the notary.  Land or property said I, both in equal measure  they said.  No let up said I, no they said at the moment no difference.  I asked them how many properties/land were changing hands on average a week but they said they couldnt tell me. 
Despite the slow down, providing the property/land is not way over the top price wise, stuff is still moving.  Its not the same as the costas maybe because there is not a glut of property and it is not urbanised in the extreme.  David my husband is a metal fabricator (makes rejas and security grilles and stuff) he has not seen much of a slow down even though its August.   This area probably appeals to older people in general.  These are usually the people with more capital and not a lot of debt .  Thats the only thing I can think of as the reason at the moment.

and Yes I still want my house because I'd rather have bricks and mortar than have to wait for 4 or 5 years to get a little bit back that will have devalued so much that it will just about cover the legal costs.

 Myra my friend you are so right I have far more in my life to be thankful for! Tell you what come and work alongside me in the wedding business and between us we could work magic counselling others in stress management (I can feel hormones driving towards me from 50 miles away poor loves) and I never panic for them!

We shallwhen we meet IN spain. to feeling glum anymore and need these when on our patio's, and finally whenever I visit Spain I see a  and as a Taurean who never gives up I shall know it was the right thing to persue!

Bless you
Sal

Oh how I wish I had listened to facere all those months ago and accepted the offer of our money back. We are one of the residents of the apartments in La Zenia above the office which has now closed down and is up for sale, along with other assets of San Jose, and awaiting any interested party that may put in a bid for it when San Jose, no doubt, will make a decision about what happens to us. Thank goodness the sale is likely to take some time but you never know - someone may be interested in buying it sooner.

I am thankful that these problems have arisen now and not after our house and a small number of others had been built in Jumilla leaving the unlucky residents with no golf course and no other ameneties at Santa Ana apart from builder's water and electricty. We have resigned ourselves to the likelihood than our money is lost and any other result will be a bonus to us whenever that may be. I want my house in Spain as well but under no circumstances whatsoever would it be a San Jose house after the way that the company have treated us over the last 5 years as beautiful as Jumilla is.

Best wishes to all of you who want the Santa Ana project to proceed and I hope you are successful as it will probably increase the chance of a return of our deposit.  James.

Hi James
 I feel so sorry for all of us mixed up in all of this .It is an awful situation and I like you am considering my money gone ,lost stolen whatever .  Getting anything at all now will be a bonus I  think having  this attitude is a self protection mechanism as I could not take any more disappointment over all of this . SJ have strung us all along for years now with one disappointment after another.If only they had told the truth we could have protected ourselves from the emotional and financial upheaval of all of this  . I can not forgive SJ for the way they have behaved over the last 5yrs .I wish everyone well in what ever they want or can claw back. Good Luck to all . JA

Hi

I have been resigned to a bad result since it all started to be common knowledge also.  I cant stop saying though that the building and planning laws in Spain are kept so stupidly archaic, just so that people can be screwed.

Its like going back to serfdom in England in the pre industrial revolution days.  They are so far behind and so unregulated, i dont care if developers never sell another house in Spain.

They will have lost 1000's of customers anyway.....daft sods.

Even the Spanish and the Spanish press are turning a blind eye to the real root cause of their economic downturn.  

They can blame it on the banks and credit crunch, but this wasn't happening when all the illegal goings on were taking place by the banks, developers and anyone involved in this circus.  

The real culprits are the Spanish legal systems and its inability to enforce its own laws.  The only ability they have is to cream money off people who end up on this conveyor belt.  Unfortunately the news of illegalities and underhand dealings has spread like wildfire and has done irrepairable damage to the Spanish property market.

Will it recover?  and more importantly  who will give a toss??