Community Charge meeting

I think they use the 'off plan' as a reason for not doing exactly what they advertised- a bit like 'buyer beware'

It would be interesting if we could find anyone or any committee that has actually had any success when going up against PW. Aren't Hacienda in the position of not having the town centre they were promised?

Forgive me but I am getting a bit confused as to what it is you are reporting about.  Is it the community charge or the positioning of the supermarket or what?  I seem to have lost the plot a bit on this one.  The only things I can say are that at the back of every book I read pertaining to the development there was always a disclaimer saying that they reserved the right to amend the layout etc if they felt the need to and that the info shown was for illustrative purpose only.  Also, I have no idea why anyone would wish to challenge PW at this stage unless the changes they have made are going to impact a buyer on a scale so massive that it would fundamentally disrupt their life.  Legal challenges will only serve to delay the project and put a strain on PW finances in what is an already lean time for builders - and a time which, until now, Polaris seem to be managing reletively well - mercifully.  Of course, I am not suggesting that we allow them to take the Mickey out of us but, as I say, unless the changes etc are truly on a massively inconvenient scale, I am not sure that a challenge is warranted???

Hi all,

Well said AJW - totally agree. I and many other buyers are quite happy with what PW have delivered to date under difficult circumstances. The issues with setting up a community and pitching the community charges at the right level will get resolved we just need to be patient. None of us want very low charges and no services nor do we want services that aren't necessary (or overcharged) and high charges. We need to be challenging through this early period but be patient and keep everything in perspective. Until another full community meeting is held we will not know much more I suspect. Bear in mind all these other unofficial meetings are exactly that - informal gatherings of a few owners with a common interest looking to move things forward before we have elected representatives. They do not necessarily speak for all of the owners on Condado. However, they are useful in that they will help identify items that we need to be challennging on.

Hopefully we'll get moe info from RPM soon and things will begin to clarify and settle down.

Does anyone know when the next meeting is?  I don't think we know yet but just incase we've not been told.......

Thanks

I totally agree with AJW and Kev - at the moment there is absolutely no evidence of PW not providing facilities.  Any challenge to PW under the "Trades Description Act" or Spanish equivalent, is in my view a complete non-starter.  The only contract you have with PW is in relation to your own property - and as far as I am aware, PW are fulfilling their part of the contract by building the apartments.  They are also providing services on the resort, and whilst this may not be as quickly as some would like, in the current economic climate I think we should just be grateful that it is happening at all.  It makes sound financial business sense to hold off certain areas of the development at the moment - and whilst I appreciate that this is disappointing to people buying on Golf Suites, El Mirador etc, surely they are being offered alternatives or money back.  If not, then they should be pushing for that. 

All advertising literature is water-tight in so far as legal challenges go.  It quite clearly states that they reserve the right to change layouts, specifications etc which would make it extremely difficult to challenge PW.  If they failed to provide any golf course on the resort, or a town centre, then that would be a different matter but at the moment that is not the case.

With regard to the community charge, of course it is considerably higher than any of us expected and it does need to be resolved.  The problem of the high community charge is exacerbated by the poor exchange rate as well but as Kev says, this will hopefully be resolved through the proper channels and not by small groups getting together on a Sunday morning threatening to challenge PW under the Trades Description Act!  For now, I have accepted that we just need to send rather more money than expected to our Spanish bank account to cover this higher community charge but that hopefully in the not too distant future, we will all receive a very welcome refund and can then arrange a fantastic BBQ and party to celebrate!!!

Just like many other buyers, we are very pleased with our properties and the resort generally and look forward to seeing the progress over the next few years.  As they say, patience is a virtue, particularly in the current climate.

Debbie

Well said AJW/Kev/Payton,

OK, there are going to be some difficult times during the next year to 18 months and a lot of the issues will not be settled overnight but to put things into perspective look at what we have where things have been finished & handed over and ,importantly, compare this to some other urbanisations and note the pavements & roads that you still see unfinished 5 years on, foundations in for properties that have been taken no further, concrete skeletons of buildings that were meant to be the communal facilities. This sort of thing is not something that has just happened in the last year though - these are developments started years ago. We must give credit where it is due. I look at the latest photo's posted of La Isla with the lake lining in place and think 'wow, that is going to be one nice place to look over sitting on your balcony when it is all in place and landscaped. We in turn on Jardines/Naranjos/Penthouses also benefit from that overview as it comes into existence as we commute around the whole resort.

Think of what we have and the reasons we bought into Condado and the Murcia region in general. Once this credit crunch has passed, and it will, £100,000 paid for a 3 bed in the surroundings it will be in will seem like a pretty good bargain. Look at something like this on the Costa Del Sol, even with the drops in prices factored in, and you would get nothing like it. Murcia is up and coming and I think most of us knew this and that probably influenced why we bought there. Look at the infrastructure that has gone in around Condado and the area in general. There are superb new road systems that can get you to anywhere you want quite painlessly and I have not heard anything saying that the new airport construction has been put on hold, just delayed a little longer. Where don't building projects on this scale not get delayed ?

On the community fees issues, I think we have work to do with RPM but once we get the community built up and people on board with the right kind of experience and buisness minds then I,m sure we can improve the present outlook. I think this will be taken up a lot quicker by the Condado urbanisation than previous Polaris developments because we have all learned from their experiences and postings on the likes of this forum (which has been brilliant). We have to keep faith and pay our fees to ensure our chosen 'place in paradise' is achieved and stays that way. Once we have our own sub-presidents & president we can influece where and how we spend the money and determine what is wastefull and excessive.

I for one can't wait to be going over on a regular basis and appreciating even more than by photos how to place has come on since your last visit. To this end, we must ensure that we do not put obsticles in the way of Polaris finishing off what we have been promised and give them an excuse for not coming up with the goods. This does not mean of course you should not still campaign & nag for everything to be delived to you that should have.

Regards,

Excellent post Debbie........&.........from Kevin before.  Really good common sense comments

I am pretty convinced that PW are trying deliver as best they can within the current climate - which is having massive consequences everywhere, but particulaly on the Spanish construction market.    The main facts are:

1) The properties already sold are being completed ahead of target - we know the main driver for that is to enable PW to recoup cash, but if that keeps them going - then so what.  A healthy PW is in our best interest is it not?

2) The course is developing.  The layout is a belter & although it may not be playabe as quickly as hoped, it wont be long now.  Things such as temp clubhouses are the norm in this type of situation

3) The Foro is only a couple of months away now.  Yes it will probably a couple of months behind the first dates we heard, but Christ...this is Spain.  At  HR they are still waiting..... 5 years on.  So lets not get too critical over a couple of months.

Anybody expecting to pay only €40/ month Communidad are living in cloud cuckoo land.  We were told about €70 & my guess is when all the properties are sold, it will end up about that.   Everybody wants value for money.....which is why I still twist at the cost of a pint in the surgery etc, but taking action against PW for something that can't be won, can only damage them & utlimatley that means the future of Condado & all of our investments.

One of the great assets of the E-O-S website, is that so far, it is has been full of very positive people, all trying to help one another in so many ways. It's been a great forum.    I sincerley hope it does not end up going the way of many of the 'other' forums, which have ended up as sounding off board to crtiicise all things PW.   We all need to take with this matter.

Of course this should not mean we let PW get away with murder.    Hopefully our communities & sub communities, with the right representation, will prevent this from happening

Patience............

Nick

I was merely saying that challenging PW wouldnt be an easy process, they wouldnt leave themselves open to that and whether its valid is another question anyway.   Challenging PW would be an expensive process too so is always likely a non starter just from that viewpoint.  Ive read elswhere people threatening to go to the media- That might reduce the number of  future purchasers but I think most people couldnt care less what we are all paying for a community charge on a Spanish Resort when they are tryng to find the money for the mortgage on their present home anyway.

I think a lot of people have other concerns that aren't specific to the community charge and those concerns are probably better discussed when a truly representative committee is set up.

In the present climate we have been happy to see that PW haven't just upped sticks and left half built sections of the development- they do seem to be trying to complete those pieces that they have begun.

We hadnt expected our charges to be 40euro's but had been told  50-55euro's and even with some expected natural increase 100 euro's is tad higher than anticipated and therefore we are hopeful that when RPM get their act together there will be some reduction.

Hi every one

I too , i`m afraid ,jumped on the band wagon , finding reasons to critisise PW untill Sunday night.

My son bought a new build off plan 1 bedroom ground floor appartment at the same time as we completed on Condado.

He too found that there wetre differences in his apartment to the drawings & the show home. but nothing to drastic. He pointed out all the things he doesnt have unlike Condado.

No fantastic views, his car parking slot is quite a walk from his apartment. No greenery...Bbecause the apartments are built like 3 story houses he has his own front door but still has to pay service charges because he  has a back door too which is part of the communial entrance even though he never uses it

 The area he lives in is a regenerative area, though very little regeneration is taking place at the moment so its not a particulaly solubriouse area. His community fees are almost twice as much as ours on Condado . He only has 1 bedroom & though his living room / kitchen is roughly the same as ours. he has no private outside space & he also has to pay community tax to our government.
So all in all I think we  really do have a great deal .

Jan

We do need to challenge the community service and lack of facilities. Most of you who don't live here have little idea of what it's like to live here. For a start, we live in a ghost town, the cafe on site is charging very high prices compared to other local facilities and the only people who use it are those who are new here or just arrived and don't know any better. We are promised more of the same when the Forro is finished.

My only means of communication with my the kids is by mobile phone, which although not cheap, will still be cheaper than the proposed international charges proposed by PW. Also the lack of internet and the proposed monthly charge of 39Euros (Approx.) a month for a 1Mb connection, going up in three stages up to 95 Euros per month has led me to get a wi fi modem from orange at 39Euros per month. PW have persistantly stopped outside companies from providing phone and internet connection. It could have been in place and running by now.

The charges mean possible bankruptcy for one resident here that I know of.

Yes, we finally have the TV we were promised would be here by Christmas but they neglected to tell us we could only get the BBC channels after 18.00.

I'm sure those of you living in the UK can be patient but when you are trying to set up a business in a ghost town without even a basic phone line, I don't think you'd put up with it for months on end in the UK. Also, lets not forget the 30Km round trip residents of Los Naranjos have to make just to collect mail from the post office. 

Mel

Well said Mel.

I am not a resident but your discription struck home as to the isolation of Condado and the importance of getting access to competitive products and services and not to be held to ransom by Polaris' monopoly.

Of course none of us wish to over emphasis problems asssociated with an on going development and  Kev,Ajw and others are right to restate that so far so good. and 'maturity' will bring with it a better organised and more efficient  Condado and the smoothing of problems..  Nevertheless we've all worked hard for our money and we all wish to see fair play when it comes to charges, fees and costs.  Polaris not only want our money from a one off property purchase but also indefinitily into the future by  controlling those services and structures and preventing open competion.

Well......I'm more than happy with my purchase and what I currently see, on what is planned to be a new town, is exactly what I expected, yes the economic situation is not helping and we'd all like to but we can't change it.  We'll just have to hope that improves with time.  What certainly isn't going to happen is a ready made town spring up overnight. 

As for the community charge, €100 per month is what I was told from the beginning (2 Years ago) and that's what I've budgeted for.  That amount may be right or it may be excessive, so until we know the full details how can we ask for any justification let alone challenge decisions?  personally I'd rather pay a little more on the charge as opposed to Condado turning into a dump as you can see with some other sites.

This is Spain not England and not everything is the same!

I do understand everyones point of view but  if you purchase on a 'golf resort' that's exactly what you get - a resort, geared up for holidaymaker mainly.  If I were looking to live in a bustling community I should have purchased in an established town or village.  In addition - Polaris completed on the apartments way ahead of schedule, a problem for some but, as it turns out, VERY fortunate for many others whom, had the completions not been done early, would have really struggled in this economic climate to get funds secured.  I completed 9 month early and - after the shock - was delighted at being given the keys to the apartment I was so eagerly awaiting.  It is estimated that approx 25% of properties will be occupied at any given time.  It is never really going to be mobbed but 25% still equates to around 2000-3000 people moving around when the resort completes. 

It strikes me  lots of people have not researched the offplan building purchase pros and cons.

I asked loads of questions and was told to expect changes, quiet periods, slow infrastructue, and teething problems with community facilities and charges, as it is I was also told to expect to pay anything from £80 -  £100 (or so) per month.

We do not live on site but are there approx every 4-6 weeks.

Look for faults they will be found.

We were at the community meeting and to be fair to management company they had no chance, they were shouted down and no one was letting them try to explain anything (Brits and spanish)

Iam sure everything will come good and charges will settle out, it would be very unwise to not let things settle down and this may be upwards of a year (+) from now.

Can only speak for ourselves but we are very happy with purchase and current progress within Condado, we would not be supportive of any management company challenges (At this  time).

When we bought 2 years ago we'd already seen a couple of Polaris resorts and have stayed in Polaris resorts many times since.

Both Hacienda and La Torre went through what we are going through now with the community fees.  After a couple of years things are now starting to settle down and the community fees have been reduced by quite a substantial amount.  Our concern is about the people among us who have no intention of paying the fees as this will only damage the community finances and we will be left with hefty fees for years to come.

We now need to concentrate on getting the community up and running so we can start to take control of the resort we all think so much about. 

I can understand the frustrations that are held by the permanant residents of the resorts but at least the town centre is in the process of getting built.  We are fully aware that the prices in the town centre are not going to be cheap but hopefully they will be first class.

We have bought into something special and due to the present economic climate it is going to take time to get the resort completed but we will get there eventually

We have got a couple of friends who have bought on other resorts in the south of spain and neither have completed after 5 years of waiting.  They are now fighting to get their money back through the courts.  We have had problems of our own with Polaris but at least we have got a property at the end of it and are looking forward to many future holidays in the sun.

Picking up from Mike & Dawn's post, yes prices are hefty on Polaris resorts particularly with the devaluation of the £ against the euro, but anyone who has visited the finished up and running establishments will have seen for themselves the standard of the decor and fit out. Now I, like anyone else do not like paying through the nose over-inflated drinks prices (I must have slated my girls enough over the years for the exhorbitant prices they have paid when they were out 'clubbing') and will cut my cloth accordingly to the prices being charged i.e. buy less drinks over the course of the evening or not stay out as long. We need to take advantage of the offers and discount cards that apply to residents to soften the blow. I think at the end of the day, market forces will eventually influence Polaris to price their product at a level people are willing to pay. The old adage, 'you gets what you pay for' still applies to a degree though. Pop along to the Irish bar on La Torre and look at the surroundings and then compare it to the Irish bar at Camposol (not knocking this at all because every establishment has it's place and I would be quite happy having a few beers there watching a game) and you can see the difference in the outlay to get the place built & furnished. I still beleive we will get more reasonable prices eventually. If not, you always have the supermarket, a fridge, a nice patio with wonderful views and probably plenty of willing neighbours to share a drink with and return the complement next time.

Regards,