Corvera Solicitors letter received - Breach of Contract

Maria I understand that this has gone through First instance and appeal court but I will speak to my contact and get the court numbers for you so that you can get a copy and received some local publicity

I know that your approach to cases fits well into the Spanish process but I believe from feedback on this forum that the only thing that the majority of people going through the legal process will acccept is a full refund of deposits, interest and costs

Hi Roy.

Thank you for asking the questions of Maria for clarification.

I for one am not really interested in "Valencia" precedents or indeed what has happened in Andalucia. What matters to me and many others is what WILL actually happen if a case is brought before a court in MURCIA for that is where our interests are and we all know from previous almenacs that each autonomous region has its own translation of "Spanish" Law.

The No Longer Want a Property at Corvera-ites have made their minds up and will not be swayed from their actions toward Calidona but the questions still remain for those of us who have not yet completed but do not necissarily want to withdraw from our purchase.As I've said before Roy, do not get into a web-argument with them as they will only try to denounce your comments as biased advertising (although I cannot see the difference when a lawyer suggests a legal action?).

If you have any more questions either from yourself or on behalf of clients, please feel free to p.m. me and I will cut and paste to the forum on your behalf, after all I agree with all of your queries so far and can still empathise with both sides.

ps regards also to Kev, Jored, Spanhod, Searay etc. this is not intended to cause conflict, merely acting as an intermediary with broad shoulders.

pps Maria.... I totally and unreservedly agree with your last post encouraging price negotiations etc. although I understand that this may not help the 'pure investor' that was told he would be able to turn over a sell quickly at a profit.

inspectahome

" but i believe from feedback on this forum that the only thing that the majority of people going through the legal process is a full refund of deposits , interests and costs "

with all due respect when did you become the spokes person for people on the forums ?  people can speak for themselfes , most people are aware that the murcia courts are most likely to find in favour of calidona in the firtst instance ( it would be nieve to think they do not have any influance in the area ) , presumably this is why maria is reffering to the supreme court .

as regards the question of using the forum for advertising personally i couldent care either way , i just fail to understand how you became a spokesperson for people who had the ability to go to a foreign country and make the decision to buy a property for whatever reason go through the due dilligence , pay the deposit and the first installment , and they suddenly they can no longer contact a lawyer or use the internet ( in which case how did they come across your services ?) , as you have pointed out many times you are neither a lawyer or an owner on either of calidonas resorts , why not simply refer these people to an independant lawyer ?

as my earlier post please do not take this as a personal issue as i am sure you offer a professional service in what you do and will continue to so in the future .

ps steveand jane , icant see the difference between a lawyer or a snagging company posting other thay the lawyer appears to be posting on legal matters !! whereas the snagging company appears to be posting on anything ( maybe thats the difference ?) 

The problem is that people remain afraid to speak for themselves because of the response they get from certain members and while you quite rightly point out this is not a persoanl attack on me some other people still choose to do this

I don´t claim to be a spokes person but it is well documented on the forum that a number of people are seeking a full refund and costs and do not want to complete so surely the question and Maria´s comments are of benefit

Perhaps one of the problems is that te lawyer that originally acted for them isn´t quite an independant as they should have been or they don´t have the funds tto start actions so the fourm surely can help thes people with public comments 

Seray you asked me why I hadn´t commented or helped with the corruption issues etc and I was able to actually show that I have with a number or articles, published on this and a number of other forums, local and national press

Because i live in Spain, work in Spain, have daily contact with local lawyers and agents I actually get a lot of often timely information as proven when I was able to assist people on the Fortuna Golf, Finca Parc and  Ochando Golf developments and there re people that have stated, on the forum, that they have benefitted from the local information

I  

If you read what Maria has said, the inference seems to be that the most likely outcome is a settlement where Corvera may accept (or be instructed to accept) a lesser compromise figure for the remaining money due on each completion. If that was the case, would most of the legal group be happy to progress on those grounds? Or is it that due to economic changes you simply want out?

I would not be surprised if a court agreed to a settlement figure, as I'm sure the courts would rather see a finished resort with some less facilities but costing the purchasers less money, than a half finished resort with constant outstanding legal cases clogging up the judicial system and doing the local tourism market no favours. Remember Spain relies heavily on tourism and Murcia is trying very hard to be be a main player. Also, it would seem a solution where at least everybody gets some result. I appreciate that a lot of people (including myself) signed up to the entire package, and from my perpsective the PGA association was the biggest influence - not the hotel or equstrian centre. However, I can't see a court in all seriousness awarding all the non finishers every cent back on the strength that the resort is not complete, when they have an easier option of trying to keep all sides onside, and by doing so also encouraging the tourist market to try and recover. That is not to include the legal savings of settling before expensive High court legal fees become due.

Frank, I can see the logic in what you are saying, and if some people are happy to complete at a reduced price that's fine, but I think most feel that the only fair outcome would be a refund for those who want it, and I believe most will justifiably want this, including myself. I think that if you ordered a Ferrari but were delivered something closer to a smart car, a mere reduction in payment would not be good enough.

kev

This message was last edited by kev2 on 03/02/2010.

It would be interesting in finding out how many people on phase 1 and phase 2 have not completed because of

1) The sudden drop in the value of property in spain (which they are not alone)

2)The drop in the euro to sterling.

3)The financial position they are in has changed.

4) Or is it they bought off plan for a fast buck.

1 2 and 3 are all factors that we all knew could happen when we all signed on the dotted line.If these problems had not have happened would anybody be worried about the year delay.I would say that most who have completed bought for the long haul ie family holiday home. Those who have not completed are maybe the ones who bought off plan to sell on for a profit as had been happening for a while and nobody thought it would come to an end.If bet most of the people who are wanting to take court action are from this group and as i said before we all went in with our eyes wide open. By not completing this is causing the problems with phase 3.  Having been out 3 times in the past 4 months i have seen how the golf course has come on,they have always had green staff on the course working away.The golf course is why we bought in the first place as i think is most other people who have completed.

In response to Simon M, I paid my deposit in Oct 2006 (phse2) and was advised that my property would be ready within 18 months. 

Having investigated many of the developments in the area we decided that Corvera ticked all the boxes for a holiday home for the long term - it was never intended to sell on for a quick (sic) profit.  However we did not agree to purchase a very expensive property 'just because it has a golf course' as frankly there were many others offering a similar facility. We decided on Corvera because of the range of facilities to be included in a 5 star resort ie the hotel, spa, commercial centre etc etc, which would help to rent the property when we could not use it and would attract more than just weekend golfers. This is why we paid many more euros than was necessary to ultimately buy a lump of concrete on a golf course!

I wish all those who have completed well and hope the development fulfills your dreams and requirements but frankly, if Caledona offered to cut the price by 50% I would still tell them where to shove it !

hi simon

The golf course may well be the main reason why you bought and that's fine, there is a golf course so you should be happy. If you are on phase 3 and you are concerned that it may be delayed or not built, I'm sure that Corvera can do you a good deal to get you onto phase 1 or 2.

I know a lot of those who are not completing and they did not buy at Corvera because  it had a Golf course, they bought because it offered so much more, the PGAE connection, the De Vere Hotel, the Equestrian Centre, the Commercial centre, the health centre, a range of quality places to wine and dine etc. 

 These are not mere small extras that are of little concern, these are what make the difference between a run of the mill development and ' living the dream' as we were promised, these will make the difference as to whether the development is viable or not, these are whatwe  were promised, we were promised a,b,c,d.e.f & g but were only delivered a & b, it's not good enough, and I believe a judge will see it that way.

For those who are happy to complete with what there is, that's great,there are a lot of very good people who have taken that option,  but when we signed we were promised much more, and that is what they should have delivered,  they didn't, so  at the very least we should have the option of having our deposits back (with an apology).

kev

I am NOT a golfer, nor am I an investor out to make a quick buck.  I am retired. We sold our UK home and bought on Corvera at a premium price so that I would have the use of all the other facilities of the 5* Country Club while my other half was enjoying himself on the golf course.  Then at the end of the day we could go and have a refreshing drink in the bar, or a meal in the restaurant, or even pick up something from the shop in the commercial centre to put on the BBQ back at the villa. 

That was my "Corvera dream" Simon - I'm on phase 2 - would you like to buy my contract?

I'm interested to hear why Simon believes that people not completing on phases 1 and 2 is causing problems for phase 3?

Sorry to sound naive here but I was always led to believe the hotel, equestrian centre, shops, bars etc would come after the majority of the phases were complete. If so why are so many claiming not to complete due to lack of facilities. Surely the only argument is delays. My unit was only completed last summer (2 years behind expected completion) so to be honest I am not Calidonas biggest fan but I wouldn't expect them to start the facilities until the phases they have sold are completed - and paid for by the purchasers. I run a business (I hope better than Calidona) and know how important cashflow is, so am sure it is vital to Calidona before they can invest this into Phase 3, 4 and the facilities. Surely we can all see that by so many failing to complete this is holding up the rest of the resort.

Before I get shouted down - I agree the developer is totally at fault for the delay in starting this project due to their greed in trying to run Roda as well and allowing the down turn in property market ruin it for 'quick buck' investors. But sorry I can't see the arguement here regarding not completeing because it's not a 5 star resort. It never will be unless enough people invest in it - even if the facilities were all on site it would still not be a 5 star resort at present because not enough people have completed on the units - hence the site is a ghost town.

phase 1-2-3 what difference does it make ?  all the people are asking for is what they were sold and will be expected to pay for on both roda and corvera is that so wrong ??

just a thought all you buyers that are happy with the situation and posative about  both developments , if maria is successful in either obtaining refunds or discounts on the purchase price funded by the people taking legal action , presumably you will be completing as per your original agreements  and will not be expecting a discount or return of deposit ??? .... as i say just a thought !!!

kev 2    an apolgy from calidona !!! 

p wilson      perhaps people are concerned by the track record of calidona at roda , 4 phases sold , only phase 5 on hold and still no facalaties ,  the responsability for this situation lies at the door of calidna and its agents ( pure greed by both parties )  and not with the buyers with the courage to make a stand against what is clearly wrong .

if you are happy with the resort and have completed i wish you every success and hope the resort lives up to your expectations .

Sorry pwilson, but when we signed our contract way back when we were told, by the Corvera sales team, that our property would be finished in 2008 and the rest of the facilities in 2009.  We were happpy to wait a year.  We are now told by that same sales team that they have no idea when any of the facilities will even be started - yet alone finished.  I can understand some of the reasons for delay or non delivery - but this in turn make a nonsense of the price we are paying. 

DIFI  i am sorry about your situation but  pwilson is correct we also expected  that the hotel etc would come later.

We would also like to see everthing finished but i go back to my original point if the economic climate had not changed people would not have complained and would now be completing.

Ref RUS W question i believe that calidonia are holding off phase 3  as so many are trying to pull out on phase 1 and 2.

Yes golf was the main reason we bought on corvera as the course and the area was our choice.why else would you buy on a golf resort if it wasn't  for golf !

corvera was not the only resort offering hotel, shops, bars , restaurants etc.

I have an official Calidona newsletter whereby they announce that the hotel on Roda will be completed in the summer of 2008.

Yo Mr Unhappy

A great post. You should contribute more often. 

Hola SteveandJane

No harm to you but I totally agree with Mr U.'s comments. You are probably a great guy who I would like to play golf with but I always thought your distinction was very dorky and of course divisive by definition. It also makes you sound a bit smug about belonging to one group as opposed to the other, which I am sure you never intended even if that's how you feel. If you must have labels what about Dreamers and Realists?

Roy

Not sure why you have said that 'getting snagging work done is a nightmare'. If I follow your line of argument on all other matters a promise from Calidona that they will get round to it one day should fully satisfy you.

Anyway

Abrazos Amigos

This message was last edited by jdy on 03/02/2010.

This message was last edited by jdy on 03/02/2010.

This message was last edited by jdy on 03/02/2010.

mr unhappy 

a great factual post  ..... perhaps if people stuck to the FACTS of the issue then things would be a lot clearer , rarther than clouding the issue with emotion  investor or lifestyler what is the difference do we not all want the same thing  A COMPLETED RESORT .

simon m   perhaps you would buy on a golf resort for the security offered by this type of resort , a private gated community   for the use of its reidents ( although this does not appear to be the case at roda ) . 

I think we will have to agree to disagree here as we don't appear to be getting any where, but I'm just curious Simon & Pwilson when do you expect the hotel, commercial centre, equestrian centre, health centre, restaurants, shops, bars etc to be completed ? The way you are talking I would swear that they were just around the corner, soon to be completed.

While I appreciate that you are happy with the development because it has a golf course, many of us did not buy here just because there was a golf course. We bought here  because of all the additional facilities, we would not have bought here otherwise, not by a long way.  Clearly these do not appear to be important to you, but you should appreciate that they are very important to many. Calidona new that these facilities were very important to the purchasers, they would not have harped on about them otherwise, they were the bait to get us to bite.

You keep saying that people are ownly complaining because of the economic change of circumstance, this is absolutely not the case. I believe most people would not be happy with an apartment on a  golf development, miles from anywhere with basically no  facilities (besides the golf course), when we were promised so much more. We signed an agreement, a contract based on these facilities, both parties should abide by the contract not only the purchasers, otherwise they can promise what they want, to draw in future purchasers who will be willing to pay a premium, deliver very little and get away with it, what's stopping the next contractor promising every facility and service under the sun and delivering nothing but the golf course ( ie shafting future purchasers)? the wording and spirit of the  law appears to be quite clearly designed to stop such things happenning (despite some judges interesting interpretations of it).

I just read your excellent post Mr Unhappy, good to see you back, were you on a quest to find the lost facilities of Calidona? Your post helps to remind us that Calidona's reputation to get facilities completed was far less than perfect in the economic good times, and you're right many of us have absolutely no faith in them,and for good reason, except to not get the job done.

Kev

This message was last edited by kev2 on 03/02/2010.

Just finished watching one of my most favourite feel good films 'Dirty Dancing' so not sure why I am posting as I will only get shouted down and feel fed up again.  However, I am still going to ask the question I have asked numerous times - how many of you who are not completing because of lack of facilities were actually told that all facilities would be completed and in place before you completed on your property?  How many of you, if told that your property would be completed when all facilities were completed and in place on the resort, actually had that written into your contract.  We all purchased off-plan.  Had we purchased properties on a finished development the price would have been higher than we are paying - obviously on a scaling rate depending on which phase you purchased on.  That is the whole point of purchasing off plan, no one really knows what is going to happen or when - especially if its not written into your contract.   That is why you pay a lower price at the on-set.  I agree the delay initially by Calidonia seems unreasonable, (I say 'seems' because I do not have factual information as to why it was delayed) but nothing was written into Contracts to say they had a timeframe in which to start construction - correct me if I am wrong.  Infact, I think we all believed the agents who sold us the development in the first place - one in particular comes to mind.   Unfortunately, the world has gone into turmoil since and people's circumstances have changed - some more than others.  There are certain purchasers who, without doubt, need and deserve their deposit refunded.  I am certainly not sticking up for Calidonia, but it is not only purchasers who have suffered this economic downturn, but companies have also.  There has also been widely publicised corruption in Spain which has added to the whole horrible situation.  Obviously, things are different now financially with the currently climate.   People losing jobs, impossible exchange rates, the list goes on.   But please, can someone tell me where it has been said that Calidonia will not, at some point, complete what they set out to do - may take years but that is where off-plan comes into the frame. Personally, we were told five years for completion from commencement of works, its only been two years.  Now this is where someone is going to pull me to pieces.  I know the delay has been massive, we purchased in May 2005, but that has given us time to save a cushion - albeit only a cushion which doesn't go far with the exchange rates.   It was said in a previous post on this thread that the only reason Calidonia are progressing with the golf course/driving range/clubhouse/equestrian centre is because the legal group are piling on the pressure.  Novel thought - perhaps the development would be further on had certain purchasers not put the brakes on Calidonia's finances by not completing on properties because of facilities that are not completed  that were never promised on completion of their properties in the first place.

Anita  (please don't be too harsh - it is only my opinion :))