"The Biggest Con of all Cons" - They Want More of Your Money

Linda  i understand exactly what you are saying in your post, shame some are still on here to rubbish it.

Everyone has different reasons for different outcomes.  Personally i would like my money transfered stright back to me.  Thats not going to happen so i think would prefer to see bricks and mortar, then a choice on where to go from there, rather than wait 5yrs and maybe still get nothing.

Dave   after the way some jumped on you before you must be thick skinned.  With respect tho not everyone knows everyone on here personally, so we dont know if they are honest people or not.  So i read a report from a solicitor which i assumed was word for word and assuming he is spanish i just thought GIST was a funny word to use.  So i thought maybe wrongly someone may be fabricating something.   As i thought we werent going to hear till March how come some already know.  Sorry if it caused you offence personally.  

I also know why you want them liquidated and thats your choice.  I meant about why the ones supposedly paid out still being on here was aimed at a certain person who just likes to wind people up and keeps promising to go.

MM

Why have a go at Linda when all she is doing is putting her point of view, which surely she is entitled to do?  She is also explaining her personal circumstances, which quite honestly deserve a bit of sympathy rather than slagging her off.  Linda has not been on this forum to insult other people, only to try and help.  And yes, Malc and all, we do know her as well as Dave and GAL plus many other people on here!

At the risk of being slagged of too, we put down 30% deposit and didn´t get a bank guarantee in spite of asking for one.  We have asked for our money back however, if San José (Herrada del Tollo) is liquidated, we do not see where our money will come from.  We have both retired so live on our pensions, and don´t have the money for expensive lawsuits.  We cannot afford to lose our deposit, so it would be interesting to hear people´s thoughts on how we can get our deposit back without forking out even more money.  Do we say force them into liquidation, in which case we lose everything, or accept a meagre offer in the hope we may get something back?

Sue

Suemac,

Until we all see the fully translated proposal we won't know the details.  But what I do know, is this vote might be our last chance to put these crooks to bed.  Their policy has always been that of take take take, at no point in the last four years have they ever offered anything, not one single penny, not one apology, not one explanation as to why we all ended up in this position, and now they want more money off you before they can continue along this path of deceit.

One question would be, does a vote against the proposal only effect HDT or does it effect SJ.  In any walk of business you can guarantee it only effects the named companies as most go on to open another business under a new name with another family member as director.  As HDT was owned by one of the son's then it won't effect the big cheese.

Lets assume we vote yes, what's to stop them reaching this position again in another year, going back into administration for another two years, it will just go on and on.  I cannot take a chance on waiting another 4 years for nothing. 

We really do need to turn our attention to the banks and the legal baffoons who didn't do their job.

I agree with Redman we need to see the whole document translated.  I do know that it is a legal requirement  that the document be signed by the Director of HdT in front of the judge and this has not occured yet.  Following that it is in the public domain.

MM Constructive comment would be far more helpful at this point. Thanks.

I agree with Redman too, although we are in the process of executing our BG as said before we are at this present time in the same situation as those without a BG, no money, except that we have cancelled our contract and are therefore not bound like those who still have a contract to buy the property. Believe me you may have to buy whether you want the house or not as your contract is still in force

I was only talking to a couple of SARC members at lunchtime today, I couldn't beleive want they said they want thier house at Jumilla after all this deceit, 3 of the 13 of us who lived in the San Jose building at La Zenia, are SARC members very definately they want a house. That is entirely their choice if they still cant see that they are throwing good money after bad

Please Please Please think seriously about putting these crooks into liquidation it really is the only way out

Hi All, I agree that they should be put into liquidation. I would be lucky to get 2500 euros in year 4! GAL has hit the nail on the head, they will force purchasers to complete on their properties as they haven`t cancelled their contracts. As these contracts are still "live" I bet thats what they have presented to the judge stating the project is viable and they will return monies to clients who do not wish to continue, with the profits from the forced purchase of these properties . Nothing to stop them going back into Administration further down the line, and it all starts again, could go on this way for ever! IMHO put these crooks out of business, you might get something back from the liquidation of their assets, let SJ/HdT continue to trade and you may end up with a windmill and a balloon! Cheers Joanniemac

So if they went into liquidation where is the money going to come from to pay anything back to us after the big boys have been paid? 

Hi Malc, I would ask, wheres the money going to come from in 5 years time? IMHO  its all smoke and mirrors with SJ/HdT, they aren`t going to deliver the properties or our money. They will have had our cash for over 9 years if we agree to this proposal, a nice little interest free loan from every one of us. Nice work if you can get it, dont you think? Cheers Joanniemac

Joanniemac.  For those of us that have not cancelled the contract we dont have to complete at the end of the day.  We dont lose anything else if it is not built.  Liquidation is not in our interests regardless of what happens in the future we have nothing to lose..

Malc.  Wait to see the full Proposal.

 Best for themselves not purchasers  

Linda if it were not for you and the SARC leaders meeting with SJ/HdT and making out SARC was representing   " the purchasers"  (many of whom did not ask or want you to represent them )

 Quote from a SARC report       "The attendees for the Purchasers were Tony Malpass, Brian Dornan, David and Linda Needham."........   

 It is obvious from the recent offer that HdT have the impression that purchasers are so desperate to get their houses built at SADM the they will go to any lengths  .Where do you think they got this idea from if not from the meetings with yourself and SARC . You .Tony and Brian have played right into their hands perhaps if you had left well alone the purchasers would have been offered a much better deal based  on reality and not on the show of desperatation and gullibility portrayed by  Tony and Brian .

Quote from SARC report

"The proposed settlement agreement is close to being agreed with the administrators and HdT who both want it to be the most favourable agreement possible for all parties. "

Hi Linda, I don`t think anyone is going to get anything out of this mess, house or money. To wait another 5 years to get nothing at the end of it is a wait too long!  I`m sure none of us can afford to lose our money, and I do understand your situation, but can we all cope with another 5 years of stress.A case of another 5 years of will they or wont they scenario!  I don`t think our votes will have much influence on the final outcome, the big boys will decide which way the vote goes. If they cease trading then they cant`t con anyone else out of their money! Cheers Joanniemac

Well I got told the best joke of all today it was from my solicitor, LIQUIDATION, LIQUIDATION, LIQUIDATION thats where they need to go ! I'm sorry but they have had a 50% deposit from us since 2005 and I am absolutely disgusted with what they have put on the table and they need to go to jail never mind liquidation. They want us to wait nearly another 5yrs for a poxy 65%. They will have made a nice profit on our £60,000!

With all respect the ones who wanted the builders to carry on probably already live in spain i.e. Linda and you already have your dream.

I vote liquidation! RIP SAN JOSE/HERRADA DEL TOLLO

slgrainger you have obviously not read one of my previous posts.  Reality is something entirely different from a dream.

mm.  I repeat constructive comments would be more helpful at this stage.

malc I get it.   and just for once I dont care who I upset on this one.  It is those who have cancelled their contracts who are upset.

Linda not sure I get where you are coming from .Why would it be those who have cancelled their contracts who are upset ,this does not make sense I think you and MALC are now grasping at straws ! What  people are upset about is that after all this time there are still those who can not see SJ/HdT for the cheating bunch of crooks they are .

May  I remind  you of the last SARC report " HdT would also like it to include that those who have had their contracts cancelled have the option to resume their purchase, if they so wish. "

I doubt there will be a queue .

It would seem many on this forum have taken leave of their senses

Where was your constructive comment in that statement then Linda?

What I meant when I mentioned you was that you already live there which is a faraway dream for the people who have been devastated by all of this. We feel for everyone who has lost money we are ordinary earners but some people who bought there are pensioners who have lost everything who we have sincerest sympathies for.

I have not been on this site for a long time now and tonight I realised why! The reason i came on was to see peoples views on the proposal which by the looks of it very much agree with my opinion and so does my solicitor. He thinks that even if the proposal goes ahead it will fail within 1-3 years and I agree, we will just waste time and they will gain more interest by people having trust in them for any longer.

I await your constructive response x

Hi Linda

I'm one of those who cancelled their contract. Why do you think I'm upset? What do you base this assumption on?

I cancelled my contract as soon as possible for the following reasons:

1. I didn't want to be beholden to San Jose to continue with a purchase  I had lost all hope in.

2. I received sound legal advice to do so.

3. I needed to, to enable my bank guarantee to be executed. (Which I'm still waiting for to happen)

There is nothing in the above that says I'm upset. Apart from knowing that there are thousands of purchasers who where not advised in the first instance to get a bank guarantee. Something that the developer, the agents and the solicitors all should have advise as a legal requirement for off plan purchase.

I'm upset that thousands of people have lost all hope of any return of their money. I'm upset that there are thousands of honest Spanish people who have invested their life savings in this dishonest company.

BUT MOST OF ALL I'M UPSET THAT THIS COMPANY REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE MAJORITY OF PURCHASERS CAN BE PERSUADED TO HAND OVER MORE MONEY TO KEEP THIS COMPANY AFLOAT FOR A FEW YEARS MORE.

And yes I too agree that SARC have given San Jose the impression that most purchasers would like their property to continue. I don't think that was their intention in the beginning. San Jose sucked them in and then pampered to their feelings.

THE ONE POSITIVE I HAVE FROM THIS FORUM IS THAT A FORUM MEMBER  OVER 5 YEARS AGO ADVISED ME TO INSIST ON A BANK GUARANTEE, I WILL BE FOREVER GRATEFULL.

just my humble opinion of course. Cheers

Dave

Hi guys, We have had this horseshite as well!

Our Solictors are only reporting to us soundbites & 'tit-bits" of information at the moment as that is all they currently have.

Once they have the full proposal Im sure they will communicate the full proposal. So at this time we are al just speculating. I dont doubt however that whatever proposal finally comes forward will only be window dressed lies & the only proper & right place for HDT is in liquidation.

As I understand matters HDT was \ is the only remaining viable part of the San Jose Group as prior to the group going into administration they were transferring assets from SJ to HDT. I have heard reports that HDT have over 300 Milion Euro of asset & only 80 Million euro of debt, if this is anywhere near a true interpretation of matters then if HDT can come to terms with its creditors (Yes thats us!) then it will come out of admin & recommence trading. So we as a group have the power now to vote NO in May & put them down forever.

As I understand matters if they go down then we all have a decent chance of getting some if not all of our deposit monies back once and as assets are sold off. (albeit at fire sale rates in a liquidation of land assets they would only at best achieve a 50% return on there true worth).

If people want to vote yes then that is a matter for them, but you shouldnt forget the endless lies and crooked dealing you have had to date with these companies and you surely cant hold out any trust in a proposal to build at Jumilla, are you all forgetting the recent Shepherd case - there simply isnt enough water sources in and around Santa Ana area to ever sustain this development never mind support golf courses.

After reviewing the rights in our own HDT\SJ depoisit contracts (& I'm sure there are many variants of the same, depending who you signed up through), all long stop dates to produce & bulid the properties have long since expired ours was July 2009 and SJ\HDT cannot enforce you to stand by them and demmand more monies.

They would have to negoitate each and every contract again with fresh terms & compensation. The power now once again lies with us as purchasers as on an expired contract which the Builder has breached by time bars, you have the right to resolve the contract at any time, by giving due & proper notice that this is what you want to happen , then they have to release you and return your deposit funds (assuming they have them). In our specific contracts this is clearly set out at Clause 10.

I do think this is a major step forward for us all and the right vote now (which can only be to take 'em down) will help speed matters up & get our money back.

Magic Meg disclaimer below.....

Note I'm not stating facts here - just opinions & interprations of my own as I deal with administration procdures in LBighty as part of my day job  & repeating some of those held & discussed with another English lead property Co' in the region who I do have some faith that they know the region & have had access to extensive administration documnetation & have endless dealings with the crooks of San Jose on a daily basis as I have of late.

Hey  Linda, im glad you got it,  thats if we are on same wave length.    Funny i cant see why people have to rubbish what you say , its a shame as i think all you do is speak honestly and truthfully as you see it from your own circumstances.   

Sigranger  i dont live in spain but still hope to have a property there one day. Our dream was to move over this year with our property completed. Ok maybe we will never see it, but at the moment the only way i can see us having one is to hang in awhile longer.

The only thing i wont do is pay any more money to the builder. I also dont intend to give any money to solicitors unless its receive my money back.  So i look at the money as gone now and if something comes of it that will be a bonus but i wont be spending money to chase it.

That way i stay sane and dont get bitter and angry.
 

Hey Nigel hope you are well  .No need for the disclaimer  However last I heard SJ were out of admin and trading on although it doesn't seem that they are managing if El Pinet is anything to go on also according to the inform  accounts it was the other way round ie HdT passing money in to SJ .SJ are listed as owing money to HdT . Anyway not sure it really matters now as when all is said and done they are still a bunch of crooks who will never come good .I do agree that the ball is at the purchasers feet now . It would have been better if they had gone much sooner than this  before they had a chance to hide money and assets .Best they go as they are rotten to the core  and alway will be .Nice to see you posting again Nigel thanks for sharing your thoughts .Hope your playa golf thing has worked well for you MM

Hi all I have just received some more information as to what is in the agreement .It is my understanding that those who have not resolved their contract do not have the option to take the " money back " deal over 5 years and will remain as buyers. and wait for their property . 

Can anyone confirm that my understanding of the agreement is correct .

That would mean if  50% vote to accept the deal those that have not resolved their contract would have to go along with paying 30% of the balance owed  in the first year of building  then  70% 1 year before completion . What about those that will need finance or a mortgage .Next to near impossible to get a mortgage at all never mind on a property that does not even exist .

If this is the case then SJ/HdT have once again used SARC to mislead .

From Sarc report
 

It was reiterated that it is only the settlement agreement/offer that creditors are being asked

to consider and sign up to. If the agreement is accepted then purchasers can decide which

option they wish to follow.  It would seem this is not the case

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 19/02/2010.