Rough justice yet again!

Chimps  You stated catergorically:  Having observed the the past few days post where posting references have clearly been altered

Kathy, I'm of the opinion that if I started a petition about something so specific as corruption in Spain I would want people that actually had a problem and who were directly affected by the property scandal ,to sign it.   This was the case of another petition started by Roots on  the UK Government website. ONLY people directly affected could sign. Otherwise one could ask, just how many people who signed it were victims. It could "dilute" it's clout if only a percentage of signatories had a problem. I'm sure that's not the case with this particular petiion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have expressed mine and you have expressed yours.  That's what this forum does best!

Dear All,

Here is an extract from the contract for my proposed purchase of…..

the highest luxury extremely spacious penthouse apartment it is possible to build, this apartment to be on a closed holiday secure complex in a front line golf location with every possible luxury holiday facility, plus on site commercial centre, all built to the highest possible build standard, again within luxury tropical gardens and swimming pools. This project was to set a new highest standard in every way.

All as described by the agent Mediterranean Luxury Homes

………..

III.- That the company INTERLAKEN 2003, S.L. is in the process of building in the township of Casares (Malaga) a residential complex called “Casares del Sol”, made up of 527 dwellings, basement intended for parking spaces, storerooms and other uses; as well as swimming-pool and landscaped areas, according to a project drawn up by the Architect Mr. ……………………., member no. ………….. of the School of Architects.

IV.- That being part of the Residential Complex hereinabove described, and in its condition of new and independent property pursuant to Deed of Declaration of New Works under Construction and Divisions in Horizontal Property executed on the 7^th October 2003 before the Notary Public of Estepona Mr. Jorge Moro Domingo, under no. 3,889 of his Protocol, the following property is found:

Whether there is any problem with the translation or not?????, certainly the two do not seem to correspond to me.

As a prospective purchaser of the first, I had, nor have, any interest in buying Spanish urban residential property of any kind.

I have no particular view of Spain or its people, though I enjoy and respect both, as long as I am treated right for my holiday home in the sun purchase and visits.

When built and viewed, I found a cramped cheaply built apartment on an open public site with no golf or holiday facilities and no tropical gardens. This was worthless to me and a small fraction of the 425,000 euro contract price to anyone seeking such a thing as built.

I have reservations as to the general Spanish treatment of animals, the idea of holidaying next door to a Spanish worker and family with their regard of a “balcony” dog as essential security, would be a prospective nightmare.

I found it all a ridiculous fraud and could not understand how my lawyers, European Legal Solutions, could have possibly signed such a contract on my behalf.

My complaints to them led to their prompt resignation.

My complaints to Anish Verma, the Mediterranean Luxury Homes agent has got me the following response:-

“ Norman

The information on the project was provided by the development company

Norman

Apologies the previous email was sent by incomplete. I am more then happy to support your application to get your desposit back.

Kind regards

Anish”

Anish’s agency has now changed its business name.

The question is how do I get justice and recompense and who from?????

Maria, do you still say that you see no negligence on the part of the lawyers?????

Answers please.

Regards

Norman

norman

so sorry to read that, it's all crap isn't it. In any decent system a building inspector would check every stage of the development. If at any stage it strayed from plan, he would then insist on the developer making good before progressing to the next stage. If the developer refused he would face such severe penalties he would be out of business, chucked off the site and replaced by someone who could be trusted.  A lawyer shouldn't even be required at this stage after initial paperwork/contracts sorted. Does this happen in Spain?, not likely when lack of regulation and corruption and non implementation of law go hand in hand at all levels and to top it all the justice system is so slow and often hopeless to be of no use at all!!

It's just so clearly wrong in so many ways, and until the Spanish government recognise it as such then the majority of those wronged will remain that way. 

Dear All,

WHY ARE THE BRITS FIGHTING THE BRITS INSTEAD OF THE SPANISH LAWYERS???????????

I posted earlier.....

Thousands of them are, I believe, out there, MAKING THE BEST OF THINGS AND SHOWING THE TRUE BRITISH SPIRIT, working hard on their worthless unsaleable properties. Bless them.

The development I refer to has the following posts.......

I live in block 31 and I am ABSOLUTELY SICK & TIRED of people in the pool after 10pm making noise, shouting etc when we have to be up for work at 6am.   This is a danger as well as a nuisance.....Why can't we have the pool lights turned off instead of inviting people drunk....to climb over the totally useless fences......how long is it going to be before we find a body floating in the pool in the morning?   The signs are useless, the fence is too low and security non-existant.  Something needs doing about this now - before it's too late!

Dear Hazel

I read your posting on break-ins. I have been renting on CDS since 1st May and visiting the site to see my in-laws for over 2 yrs, in fact that's why I'm now living here, it grew on me......and I could see improvements being made, however, security remains very poor in my opinion, as anyone can drive onto and off the development unchallenged...A barrier would make a huge difference, if only as a deterent and would also stop people coming onto the site to use the facilities....this happens every weekend.

Not much happens here without me seeing it ! as I spend most of my time at home & I also look out for anything suspicious....So, be assured that there is a little added security and that your neighbours are looking out for you...unfortunately the last break-in was not stopped...perhaps the next attempt on someones property will be less succesful.

Regards,  JohnF

I am renting at the moment but am looking to buy asap.  My wife and I love it here and we also think that there have been many improvements over the last few months, including the security fencing.  We have also noticed that many people come into the development to use the facilities - this should be stopped immediately and security should be told to enforce this strictly !

At the moment there is no security whatsoever, anyone can drive onto this development unchallenged and park wherever they like, use the pools and then leave when they have finished.....it's famous for it...I have heard talk of this in Gibraltar....Some people find it very difficult to pay for 'exclusive' facilities when they are not exclusive at all....This may be a problem for anyone taking court action against non-payers of community charges....as the communities end of the bargain is not being kept, any existing contract is therefore being broken by neglect.

These are only the recent posts.

It seems that making the best of things  via the community workers has not, nor ever will, provide that which the developer failed to provide but nevertheless charged for.

They have all paid for something that can never be achieved, it was not in the contract, the developer owns no land for it, there is no planning permission for it, it will NEVER happen despite all that Maria says about brochures in contracts.

SO LETS FIGHT EACH OTHER, SWEAR AND CALL EACH OTHER NAMES.

WHAT IS SO BLOODY GOOD ABOUT BEING A BRIT THEN????????????

Regards

Norman

A development close to me also had the same problems regarding noisy holidaymakers using the pools after 10pm.

I was there one evening about midnight with friends and we could hardly hear a word of a conversation on the terrace due to noisy people in the pool.

The community put up signs saying that strong cleaning chemicals were automatically pumped into the pools after 10pm and that anyone using the pool after that time could not be considered for compensation should they contract any kind of physical complaint. There was also a long list of things the chemicals could do to harm people.

It worked a treat and this years there have been no problems at all.

Gillespie

nice one. Could also add that it has a white bleaching effect on sun tans!

Wow this thread has gone ballistic since I last posted !!

Maybe offtopic now but has anyone received anything yet from Aifos administrators ? Not me yet.

johnmfranci5

 I read somewhere it's likely to be 2-5 years before it's sorted out, but hopefully we should get some idea of where we stand long before that.

Dear All,

was there not a special thread started for exclusive Aifos victims???

I see this as more general.

It seems that Maria has forged a thriving business from EOS involvement but other lawyers are critical or jealous and complain of ambulance chasing, but no one has chased me for my few pennies. I wonder why???

Regards

Norman

but no one has chased me for my few pennies. I wonder why?

The way it works Norman is like this ............ you go to a lawyer...they don't come to you!!  Your situation will not resolve itself. You either have to take legal action or forget about it and you loose all your money. 

This thread really has gone full circle I think. 

Dear All,

thank you tish, but..........

a friend in similar situation.................

In response to your request of information regarding the amount of fees owed by you to my office to date, please refer to my e-mail dated the 1st of September 2008. After that e-mail you transferred the figure of 10.000 €.

To those figures you will have to add the outstanding fees as showed in that e-mail (Procuradoras in both instances) and if you want to continue with the enforcement of the judgement, all the expenses derived from the continuation of the proceedings until the auction, such as land registry fees, surveyor fees and other professional fees involved.

Furthermore, the amount estimated for an out of court settlement with the Banco Pastor claiming and receiving the amount covered by the bank guarantee would ascend to approximately 4.400 € + VAT. If the Banco Pastor settles the amount claimed out of court, they will normally refuse to pay my fees and they will possibly only want to pay the principal. Whether you accept this or not will be up to you and I would inform you in due course of the result of claim lodged. Anyway, I would advise to claim from the bank prior to the action in court.


Should the claim to the Banco Pastor be taken to court, this would depend of the kind of action you decide to use. Below you will find the estimate of fees and expenses for the legal action to be taken against the bank to recover the figures covered in the bank guarantee, plus its corresponding legal interest for the summary proceedings (“ejecución de títulos no judiciales”) and for the ordinary proceedings (“juicio ordinario”).

This estimates are comprehensive of the court costs until the first instance’s decision and the lawyer’s fees have been quoted in accordance with the rules of the “Consejo Valenciano de Colegios de Abogados of 2008” based on an amount of the proceedings of 79.500,00 € + 30% quoted for legal interest and court costs (in the summary proceedings).

The amount is based on the figure represented by the bank guarantee given to you.

Estimate of legal expenses pertaining to the suit against the bank in a summary proceedings without opposition from the defendant :

My fees:
7.849,00 €
VAT (16%):
1.255,84 €
Procurador’s fees and expenses (approximate figure):
1.500,00 €
Total:
10.604,84 €

Estimate of legal expenses pertaining to the suit against the bank in a summary proceedings with opposition from the defendant :

My fees:
10.465,00 €
VAT (16%):
1.674,40 €
Procurador’s fees and expenses (approximate figure):
2.200,00 €
Total:
14.339,40 €

Estimate of legal expenses pertaining to the suit against the bank in an ordinary proceedings based on 79.500,00 €

My fees:
8.795,00 €
VAT (16%):
1.407,20 €
Procurador’s fees and expenses (approximate figure):
1.600,00 €
Total:
11.802,20 €


In the case that the other party is condemned to pay the Lawyer’s fees, these will have to be calculated in accordance with the rulings of the Bar Association of La Coruña, which is far away from here and would require for me to stay overnight on up to four occasions in the case of the ordinary proceedings (pre-hearing and hearing, depending on the flights schedule).

In the summary proceedings if a hearing is requested then I would have to stay overnight in La Coruña.

Obviously these particular expenses for these out of office expenditures will not be included in the court costs for the savings bank in the case that they were condemned to pay and therefore you will be liable to cover these figures, which are not included in the shown estimates.

Please, note that if you win the court action in full, the judgement will decree that you are entitled to receive the court costs from the defendant. However, if you win the court action only in part, you are liable for the payment of your own court costs and if you lose the legal proceedings in full, you have to also pay the defendant’s court costs, but this has no bearing on the credit that the professionals contracted by you for this purpose hold over you.

The estimates cover only each related court case to be held in the 1st Instance until its decision and any other fees for subsequent court cases, such as appeals, etc. are not included in this present estimate.

As I have already explained to you, I of course cannot give you any kind of guarantee that you will indeed succeed in winning the court case that you choose as this will depend on the Judge’s interpretation of the law, the evidence presented, the valuation of the same, etc. I can neither give you any estimate of the time scale involved because this depends on many circumstances such as the different amount of cases in each court and the posture that the defendant adopts (admitting the facts or arguing against the same, trying to reach an amicable agreement within the proceedings, etc.).

Even if in my opinion the bank guarantees are titles which will allow the beneficiary to use this special action against the bank, I have been told by colleagues that in some cases the courts have not admitted that special “power” of those titles due to the fact that the law 57/1968 refers to the bank guarantee and the proof that the property has not been given to the buyer on time, as a condition for the executive action in accordance with the Law of Civil Proceedings of the year 1881, which was modified by the current Law of Civil Proceedings of the year 2000.

In my own experience, I have succeeded quite recently in some courts which have admitted those documents as executive ones under the provisions of the new Law of Civil Proceedings of 2000.

If you think on the fact that until quite recently, prices of properties have been increasing continuously, you will understand that most buyers have preferred to wait for the completion on the understanding that the value of their properties would be higher and this made them to wait without starting this kind of action in their own interest. That is why there are not too many records on the position of the courts in this sense.

Anyway, I can only show you the different ways because in the end, the choice of which court action you wish to initiate is completely up to you. Even though, to me the fastest way will always be the summary action.

I request that you please confirm to me that you are in agreement with the contents of this e-mail and the kind of action you want to start.

what should he do??????????

how much will it cost??????

Regards

Norman

Rip off merchant. Get another Lawyer.

normamsands

Maria and Lawbird contribute to the forum as you know, have you or your friend asked them for a quote?. I don't believe either of them are rip-off merchants and their reputation relies on word of mouth from this and other forums to some degree, so could be worth a try?

Norman.

Based on past experience, I would suggest that your friend looks for a recommended lawyer within the Region where the property in question is located. Finding one that has a proven track record of winning similar cases "In Court" would be the best route to go.

Finding these lawyers is not easy at all but ALL Court Judgements (Jurisprudence) are recorded on a Public Record system and you can ask a local solicitor to instruct a Clerk to search for judgements for cases similar to your friends.

The costs for a Court Action appear to be way out of proportion to the amount involved and the type of Case, particularly as the claim appears to relate to a Valid Bank Guarantee but Lawyer Scale Fees are ridiculously high in Spain and I've seen similar quotations for other Breach of Contract cases.

With any legal case you have to look at the work and risk involved but a well written BG should not in theory be that difficult to prove? Your friend could send a copy of the BG to any number of lawyers requesting an opinion and a quotation.

Most claims against a Bg are for late delivery of a property where the Completion date is stated clearly in the purchase contract or as in Tish's claim where the property wasn't even built!!

The lawyers email you've copied quotes:

Estimate of legal expenses pertaining to the suit against the bank in a summary proceedings without opposition from the defendant :

My fees:
7.849,00 €
VAT (16%):
1.255,84 €
Procurador’s fees and expenses (approximate figure):
1.500,00 €
Total:
10.604,84 €

For an uncontested case the Fee quoted is Barmy and your friend should look elsewhere and very quickly..................

Exactly what I told Norman re the fees. CRAZY!!

Dear All,

what can I say?????

thank you Justin for providing EOS, we should all be grateful.

Most especial thanks to Mike for spelling it out.

what must be realised and why I generally address my post to ALL is that we all benefit from such information, if that means I occasionally get some stick from the "sillies" that is a small price to pay.

thanks again tish and Mike but where is Maria, surely not frightened off by the ambulance thing.

I certainly feel that I and my friend need an ambulance urgently.

Great,

thank you thank you......

Regards

Norman

Maria is posting on the forum  but has taken all of her "identity " off. I'm sorry she has bowed to pressure as now nobody now knows(newbies that is) that she is a Lawyer.

Edited to say, there must have been a blip earlier as Marias posts are back to normal!

I fear we may have done this thread to death !!!!!           

dear, dear...

I am alive and still posting with all my identity !

And better than an ambulance chasing lawyer I would say we are ambulance lawyers... or even a good set of  ICUs!

Cheers to you all!  and please have a wonderful weekend... autumn is coming... also a gorgeous season in many places in Spain. Follow mu husband´s posts for rural places in Andalucia:

Que disfruteis!

This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 11/09/2009.