Rough justice yet again!

coombsey

yes I think all Aifos victims will get the same, and yes we are being asked to pay a similar sum. Sounds like a standard amout.

Can this get any more unfair?.  After 7 years of fighting this including the courts taking about 12 months to bring our case to court and a further minimum 5 months to present a sentence,  resulting in ruining our chance of justice, we are now told we have just one month to come up with a 4 figure sum to join a creditors list. And with what chance of getting anything from that?

just so bloody unfair and wrong.

Dear All,

Chimps says the law is the law........ and of course he is absolutely right, no question.

However it seldom works properly, most especially when you have to pay for it.

In fact it does not really work at all unless well meaning people observe it without prompting, without that it is far too cumbersome, time consuming and expensive to be practical.

Lawyers charge for their time at extreme rates and this charge is levied, win or lose, productive or wasteful which is in itself bad enough, but they also draft the law which of course they do to create the most uncertainty and employment for themselves.

The best law is one that does not need a lawyer to be involved.

I am afraid that you will just have to keep paying until you are competent to not need their services any longer.

Good luck.

Regards

Norman

Hi all,

My wife & I seem to be in the same boat as many - trying to get back our deposit paid for the non-existent Puerto Golf Las Colinas project from Aifos.

Having paid more then Eur 4000 to a lwayer to pursue a civil case (which I am told will have a final hearing in Februray 2010 (not sure why when Aifos have already agreed that they have my money! and no hope of developing).

Now it appears that Aifos have gone into voluntary administration and my lawyers want approx EUR 1200 to enable me to register officially as an Aifos creditor! 

Why is it not possible to skip lawyers and register directly as a creditor of Aifos with whoever is appointed administrator?

Even if we do pay to get the official creditor status, is there any better chance of actually getting any money out of Aifos?

Would appreciate any options / advice as soon as possible as apparently there is a maximum of one month to register as a creditor.

I am VERY wary about throwing any more good money after bad.

 Hi Georgia, well done you for studying these subjects. No mean feat.

I looked into laser tapes a few years ago, they are monstously expensive here. I did find a company on the internet, USA and they were around 50 dollars or so.

Try Leroy Merlin, but best bet is to get one posted out from UK.

Good luck

Hi Puerto, I think we could register ourselves on the creditors list but i'm not sure it would be easy.  I don't know about you but i'm in the UK, don't speak Spanish and wouldn't fancy trying to collate all the necessary information.  Can you imagine trying to get everything together in under 30 days and then being sure that it is all in the hands of the right people?  Then there are obviously going to be flights and accomodation in Spain to be sorted, holiday time from work etc. I just can't see it's worth it, if I choose to pursue my position on the creditors list unfortunately I will have to pay my lawyer more money to do so because I won't be trying to deal with it myself. 

You can contact Aifos directly for them to let you know how to register in the creditor´s list, but that, of course cannot assure a fair position in the list. 

Of course, my advise is to have some legal help so that counting with enforeceable Law, Case Law and other types of precedents you can have a preferent treatment within the creditor´s list.

The Martinsa-Fadesa case tells how consumers can make an impact and drive some forces to their rights. There is enough legal coverage to have off-plan purchasers in Aifos being treated as first in the list to be paid.

Best August,

Maria

maria said

''There is enough legal coverage to have off-plan purchasers in Aifos being treated as first in the list to be paid.''

maria

well said indeed!.  That is very true and certainly makes good  sense. How do we best go about making sure that happens though?  If Aifos victims feel they will given some assurance that this is not just throwing another 1200 euros away, because we are so far down the creditor list, then I would think it will be worth  joining the creditor for those who can afford to?

You can try to form a group and act  together within the Aifos creditrors meeting. That will reduce your costs according to the rules of the Law Society.

Dear Goodstich,

"That is very true......"

for goodness sake why did you not post it then?????

if your "brilliant" lawyer had told you why not share that with the forum????

Maria, I am not, as you know, involved with Aifos but on behalf of the forum thank you for the information.

Regards

Norman

maria

that sounds like a great idea.

CALLING ALL AIFOS VICTIMS AND ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN HELP WITH ORGANISING A GROUP!!!!!

shall we try this then?. We need to work quickly I would think, going by the one month deadline.

maria said

''There is enough legal coverage to have off-plan purchasers in Aifos being treated as first in the list to be paid.''

Maria, what do you mean by  "legal coverage" ?  Why would off-plan purchasers  have preference over other creditors, such as trade creditors, people who sold Aifos land, employees, banks that loaned them money, contractors, govt taxes owed, etc? All of these will be rightfully owed money, so I wonder how one gets to be first in the list to be paid.

Thanks for your input.

Guy

maria said

''There is enough legal coverage to have off-plan purchasers in Aifos being treated as first in the list to be paid.''

Maria, what do you mean by  "legal coverage" ?  Why would off-plan purchasers  have preference over other creditors, such as trade creditors, people who sold Aifos land, employees, banks that loaned them money, contractors, govt taxes owed, etc? All of these will be rightfully owed money, so I wonder how one gets to be first in the list to be paid.

Thanks for your input.

Guy

GuyT

I think maria is refering to this below in her blog. I don't think we can get to optomistic, but at least it shows that for some people justice is possible.

Out of an agreement performed by now by the 54,7% of creditors, Martinsa Fadesa will give money back to those owners who were not given a Bank Guarantee for the return of money paid according to Law 57/68  and houses are not going to be built.

The refund limit is 400.000 € , just one refund is possible per person and it is obligatory that the house was being bought by an individual ( not a company).

The clause of the creditor´s agreement has already been accpeted by these banks: Caja Madrid, Banco Popular, La Caixa, Caixa Galicia, Bancaja y Caixa Catalunya.

I am as I stated in an earlier post obtaining information for a friend who is not in spain reference an Aifos purchase.. I am waiting  for a response from a lawyer friend before I decided what direction I will take for them. I am not getting them in any case until firstly I know that Aifos have the funds to pay and secondly that they do not enter into a long drawn out case which would be costly. thirdly  that I know  that they have a very good possibility of winning a case.

myra

ok, that will be interesting to hear that opinion from your friend. I have also asked my lawyer for his opinion about the possibility of a 'group act'  that maria speaks about. I am very aware of throwing good money at bad, or chasing a lost cause, but I really think the Aifos situation is exceptional with so much evidence against them, and even more so with the criminal element of it now being exposed.

Looking at the Martinsa Fadesa case, i'm assuming it wouldn't be Aifos paying back funds, but an agreement from over 50% of the creditors. I realise the details of purchase might not be identical, but some similar agreement looks like it could (and certainly should!!) lift us some way up the creditor list?

Please accept my apologies if i've got this all wrong, but judging by the evidence coming out and propsed jail sentences, it's very clear now that many of the actions that caused so much loss and hardship to Aifos victims were pre-meditated long ago, and I feel should be looked at that way. Not just market forces that caused the collapse.

Dear All,

my involvement throughout the proposed Spanish purchase did throw up an element of suspicion concerning Aifos, in fact we were warned against the company and this seemed to be general knowledge, perhaps the traders could confirm?

with the great emphasis on this forum with "due diligence", I wonder how investors in this company would be viewed in any form of priority treatment?

this forum is also sometimes quick to condemn investors as just speculators looking for huge capital gains.

once again just a note of caution.

Good luck as always.

Regards

Norman

Hi all - don't know if this will have any bearing on the aifos case, but just seen an article in the costa blanca news (sorry can't paste link) where a British couple have just won their case against Polaris World - even after PW appeale the original judgement. Maybe the tide is changing??

Goodstich44

I do not think you have it wrong its just that we have to look at each case on its own merit or lack of. I just need to know and remain optimistic that the money would be available to pay the hundreds of people who in good faith are losing so much. Please do not think I am being critical about investors. I live and work here and we need them all. That is another reason that we want them to be informed. I meet to many people that have gone through so much expense and heartache. Misinformation is my pet hate here. I do write for local newspapers and magazines to get the correct information to anyone I can. There are so many out there that have to rely on the system. I think between us we will find solutions or at least give correct unbiased information to all.

I am pleased to see the forum has offered a cheaper version of Spain Uncut. I am on the DVD somewhere and without being bigheaded know a lot about Spain etc. but certainly going to purchase so that this forum can survive. I know times are hard but why dont we the regulars on the forum put a reminder on our posts like. SUPPORT OUR FORUM AND BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION OF SPAIN UNCUT.

Hi Goodstitch and others.

Just in case you have not seen this, bullet point 4 below confirms that the court is only accepting applications bought by a lawyer, whether this can be group or just single applications is not clear.

Friday, July 31, 2009

TeamGB

I think most people on the forum know that cases here have to go to court with a lawyer. Can you imagine the minefield if you could do it on your own without a lawyer. What people are trying to do is to form a group or groups to share information and to find out if they have a case. Obviously working together saves fees and helps people to make the correct decision and even more important the correct lawyers.