Is living in Spain really that bad now???

Bit daft moving to Torrevieja and complaining about Brits speaking English, if you ask me. I was in Fuengirola today, which I imagine is much the same as Torrevieja, and noticed how many more local business owners there spoke English compared to Torremolinos - where there's not such a high proportion of foreigners. It's a truly international town, full of not only Brits but Germans, Dutch, Finns, Swedes, Danes etc. etc., both residents and tourists - all of whom long ago recognised the simple truth that English is the de facto international language, and pretty much all of whom (unlike most Spaniards) speak it fluently.

None of this makes it excusable, of course, for us not to make an effort, out of respect for our hosts, but it does help to explain a little why we find it so hard. The UK does not have a strong emphasis on language learning, because it's not considered such a priority as it is to, say, the Dutch, who know that outside their rather small corner of the world they will have trouble communicating in their own language. And once you've mastered one language, it's esaier to grasp the concept of learning another, which explains why generally the Dutch and others do make a better go of Spanish than the Brits.

Spain has not placed a strong emphasis on languages either, perhaps out of some mistaken belief that, because their language is spoken by as many people in the world as English as a first language, it is also widely understood and spoken by others. They are wrong - notice how many Italian and Portuguese tourists speak to waiters in English, rather than attempting Spanish, which one would think would be easier for them.

It's interesting to get a Spaniard's view, and commendable indeed that she returned from her time in England with such a good command of English, but I don't think this is necessarily a typical viewpoint, nor a very intelligent one.

We have just returned home after a wonderful holiday in our apartment. One day we were in one of the chinese shops in Quesada when a woman came in asking in english for a plastic tray, the young lad showed her a tray, No she said a tray for knives and forks speaking to him loud and slow like he was deaf, poor lad just looked puzzled and held up more trays.

Then in an even louder voice she said "why don't you people speak english" -- There she was in a chinese shop in Spain and she expected them to speak english for her.

She then found what she wanted herself and as she was paying  for her cutlery tray the lads mum was apologising for her son not understanding.

Talk about ashamed to be British. 

I know what you mean. I overheard a lady today getting frustrated and irritated at a young sales assistant in an electrical shop for not understanding her. From her accented English, I would say she was German, maybe Finnish.

Sadly, there are rude and ignorant people from all parts of the world.

I believe that if the only Spanish in your vocabulary is 'un cerveza por favor' you will almost be missing the true real Spain. I am currently learning Spainish, finding it hard, but intend to carry on regardless, I also feel this is an age issue when learning!

When I went to school the only second language on offer was French, now in most schools you can learn French, German and Spanish, so in a few years time we might be better presented!  

The British, Spanish and French all seem to be in same boat on this subject, being with any of these languages you could travel to numerous countries and still speak in your native tongue, I would say though that the French come out best on using a second language, perhaps being with France having more borders.

Hasta luego

I know this is slightly moving off thread but I have a wonderful French friend who has been living over in the UK for some time (hubby was relocated by his company) and she has an amazing command of the English language (with a sexy strong French accent mind you!). She's always asking me what certain colloquiallisms mean and then tries to introduce them into the conversation once she's learned them. It puts us all to shame to be honest.

Are Spanish lessons expensive over there? Is it purely conversational Spanish? How do you cope with the written word when it comes to admin and the like? Reading some threads it seems that the electricity and telephone companies are not very good with solving problems that arise. Do they have to provide English speaking operatives through EU law (don't mean to sound arrogant there, it's just a query!) When you come across everyday problems like that do you turn to your local Spanish friends for help or do they get fed up of sorting things out for you? Is there some person in the local town halls that you can turn to?. What about dealings with the Police, do they have any translators if required? More questions about everyday living in Spain I'm afraid and how its impacting on both the locals and foreign nationals for those who are still in Spanish learning mode!

 I couldn't agree more about the importance of being able to speak Spanish at least enough to have a go.  It may be true that English is the international language, etc etc, but as the second of only two languages (English and Spanish) which continue to grow outside of their native countries, I think people underestimate  both the pride and the competitiveness Spanish people feel where their own language is concerned.   People who want to limit themselves to English only will have to accept that they will miss out a lot - but if that is what they want that is their choice, but for me, one of the pleasures will always be to travel anywhere in Spain, with confidence enough to go into a Spanish bar and ask for directions or information.  We have had a lot of fun with Spaniards practicing their English back, and us having to check it in Spanish.

Oh and yes - it is hard - it is bloody hard.  I have just sat a 3 hour exam for my diploma, and I was exhausted.  Is it worth it?  It is to me, because I want to feel at home in Spain, and to have the solution of everyday problems (water, gas, electric etc) in my own hands.

Just one word about this business of life in Spain going to the dogs or whatever - I would urge anyone wanting to live or own property in Spain to read about the life the Spanish people endured through the civil war and under Franco, and then try to tell me that life used to be wonderful in Spain and now it isn't.  Things change everywhere, but in order to get anything out of something you have to put the effort in.  Comparisons between the two countries are meaningless really (new building laying to waste the coast? Have a look at the new build and empty apartments in any of our historic cities!  Start with Durham if you want to), you have to look at what you have and ask is it right for me.  Then enjoy it. 

Good to hear that those arrogant British souls who are rude are not being perceived as the majority.... but it is a worry and embarassing when you come across such ignorant behaviour. You tend to disown them!!!

Is living in Spain really that bad now ? 

       Which country would allow it to governed by the likes of these

Hi Chimps

My sentiments entirely, how can we Brits knock Spains goverment system, when our own is so corrupt, we should endeavour to put own house in order first!

Good point about knocking Spain when the UK isn't perfect (I read this weekend about an MP who claimed £60k second home allowance - on his parent's home, in Harrow - his "main" home being miles away in Hammersmith; he may have to apologise, may even have to pay back some or, God forbid all of it; thing is, it was probably all within the "rules")

But the same can be said about knocking the UK, when Spain isn't perfect. The investigations into fraudulent planning consents is likely to go on for years to come.

At the end of the day, this is a mainly British forum, mainly about Spain, so comparisons are inevitable and unavoidable. There will always be those with a bias one way or the other. I imagine corruption is fairly rife in Uzbekistan as well, but it doesn't get much of a mention here because it's not really relevant in this context.

So carry on slagging / praising Spain / UK everyone - it makes interesting reading!

Myra said: .....one does not only need the language. That will make communication easier up to a point. One needs to understand the culture and the people. The proof of this is noticeable when residents of twenty years or more who speak the language still have difficulties dealing with the system.....

So true, and something which I think many of us underestimate. Even if we couldn't speak the language (and the locals spoke no English) we would almost certainly find living in, say, Finland, a lot easier - apart from the weather, that is. The north / south cultural divide is greater than we imagine, sometimes, and is probably due in no small part to the weather, in fact. To truly be happy in Spain, I believe one has to first of all understand this and appreciate / respect it, and secondly, try as much as you can to adapt to it and accept it. To ignore it or try to change it is at best futile, at worst arrogant. Vive la diference!

Interesting reading it may be but it stil doesn't detract from the reality that many people's lives have been shattered by some of these "differences". I don't want to turn this into a justice debate but I do wish to stress that this is not, nor should it be a competition between countries. Forums such as this should be about learning of others' experiences, the good , the bad, whatever, to put it all into perspective. But in so doing it also has the scope to be productive. To identify potential solutions, to forewarn of pitfalls, to highlight the benefits, as well as understanding the fascinating realities associated with cultural differences etc.

Also good points. It shouldn't degenerate into a competition between countries, no, but the thread title, "Is living in Spain really that bad now?" does beg the further question "compared to what?" If it was simply asking "is it that bad now?" meaning, before the economy tanked & unemployment rocketed, then clearly the answer is, Yes. Or at least, "well, things have been better". If it meant "is living in Spain that bad now?" then the answer must be "well, no worse than anywhere else really".

Sorry, ads, that's not very productive, is it?

Roberto said

''To ignore it or try to change it is at best futile, at worst arrogant. Vive la diference!''

Roberto

that sentance does beg a few questions. While I agree that we have accept cultural difference and it's great we have those differences, I still feel that we shouldn't ignore basic human rights what ever country they are in?  Suzanne and few others have fought long and hard to bring about 'change' that is needed in Spain to give those cheated by the system some sort of justice. 

Is that futile?, is that arrogant of her?, or is she just trying to make those in power in Spain just 'do the decent' thing, and recognise their own arrogance and faults that have led to so much misery and must take most of the blame for the collapse of the Spanish property industry?

''Vive la difference''  indeed, but when important regulation/justice 'differences'  have a very negative result on those wronged, then it makes it hard to celebrate.

As for the thread title?, well there's enough info' about now for everyone to make their own mind up I guess?

10 months on and we are still very happy with our move to Spain and our new lives together. In spain sotograde estate offers all of the amenities and possibilities for the international businessman.

" In spain sotograde estate offers all of the amenities and possibilities for the international businessman."

Blimey, i have seen adverts like that in the classified sections under personal services......!!

Joking apart....there are massive differences between the cultures in the UK and Spain...some good,some not so good.

When i first came here you could walk out of one job into the next,the real estate boom created oppurtunities across the board,now work is thin on the ground you have to speak near fluent Spanish in any of the jobs that are available....

Just as a point of interest and something that will differ from area to area,my six year old daughter is taught Castellan(basic Spanish)

Valenciano (regional dialect) and English in the weekly curriculum at school at the moment, in the secondary schools here they are also taught Mandarin.

I would be interested to know out of curiosity if the Kids in the CDS or any other area are also taught a local dialect??

Quote Goodstich44:

Roberto said

''To ignore it or try to change it is at best futile, at worst arrogant. Vive la diference!''

Roberto

that sentance does beg a few questions.

Taken out of context as it was and plonked into one of your anti-Spanish justice posts, naturally "a few questions" may be begged, but don't hold your breath for a sensible answer

Georgia, I don't know what languages if any they teach here (I'll leave that to the parents to answer), but Castillano is the language of Andalucia - it's just the accent (can I describe it as lazy without offending anyone?) that's tricky. Personally, I find Latin Americans the easiest to understand.

I can't comment re Spanish schools, as we have put our son in an international school, but re language, I'm not sure which dialect my son is being taught in school, but will check that out (and I know what you mean about the Andalucian dialect, Roberto - they seem to 'swallow' their words!). 

In Dubai, in a British curriculum school, they always had French and Arabic in primary.  I'm a little concerned at the moment that in the school where my son is now they only have Spanish tuition and no other language.  Is that normal in an international school here?  We chose not to put him in a Spanish school because we thought it wasn't right for him at his age (10) and didn't want to disrupt his education any more than we had to.  I feel I may have to get private tuition for his French (or possibly arabic) to keep up what he has already learned.

Other than that, I'm very pleased that he's in the IB system.

And getting back onto the "Is living in Spain really that bad now???" thread subject, I agree Roberto - compared to living where??  How many people who gripe about living/working/the justice system/etc.., in Spain can say they have LIVED in Spain or anywhere else in the world other than their respective abodes at this moment?

Too many people think they can comment on LIVING in a country when they have never actually done so - let alone lived as an expat at all in their lives!!  And I'm sorry I had to shout about 'living" but there are too many people here who think they have a voice on living  in Spain when they have never done so!!

Go experience living in Spain or any other country/continent before slating it I would respectfully suggest!!

Roberto

must you take every comment I make as being 'anti Spanish?'   Could you not at least try and see the point i'm making before jumping on that bandwagon.

When somebody says how wonderful the differences are between the countries, then I fully agree, but please let's not forget that some of those differences that have a big effect on many people on the forum are very negative as you well know. As ads mentioned in his last post '' many peoples lives have been shattered by those differences''

You are being at the very least insensitive to deny that fact and i'm a bit suprised and hurt by your attack on me.