Is living in Spain really that bad now???

DavidW

Why so nasty?. I was just trying to be friendly to you and was interested in what you had to say. Of course I accept your opinion, as I hope you can accept mine. I was just quoting a shared opinion with Poppyseed along with my own thoughts. Nothing more or less.

 Dear All,

great posts from both sides excepting the ape man, thanks for the rebukes long overdue.

you have clearly got things right now but unfortunately it is not yet over........

"Britain’s finances are in shambles. The country’s budget deficit is running at more than 12 percent of gross domestic product, roughly the same as in Greece. In fact, for the first time, the country recorded a whopping $6.7 billion deficit in January … much worse than the $3.9 billion SURPLUS economists were expecting."

Anyone dependent on a UK pension to pay a euro mortgage and live is in for even more trouble I am afraid, the exodus will continue.

What has happened to our knowledgeable traders who told us that the UK share of the estate market was too tiny to bother Spain???

Whilst in court the other day I was informed that Canterbury Prison is full of immigrants for their criminal behaviour.

There was no mention of knife wielding five year olds chasing anyone.

The weather continues to improve with an icy East wind dropping somewhat.

Regards

Norman

normansands

....in court again eh!.  You really must put a stop to this streaking. That cold easterly's gonna freeze your assets!!!!

Justin - a good appraisal..but who is Colin?

All I know is that the Spanish in what I would call "real Spain" - i.e. areas 2 or 3 hours inland - are in dire straits.  Without tourism or construction, what is left?  Subsistence farming?

The youngsters survive because of the Spanish lifestyle of living with mum, dad, grandad, grandma, great-grand...you get the idea...so that all of their earnings can go towards the series 3 BMW and nights out on the Cuba libres.  I should say DID survive (sorry for the capitals, Mr Fish), because they too are now feeling the pinch. 

I honestly don't know what is going to happen.  Whatever it is, it won't be pretty.

Regarding the Spanish people (or should I say Andalusians), when my wife was ill, I couldn't cross the village without being stopped with offers from neighbours to do shopping, help with cleaning, bringing vegetables etc.

When an English builder messed up my roof, it was a Spanish builder friend who came and put up scaffolding and came up with me to repair the bodge job - for free. 

Yes, there are rogues and scoundrels.  No country can say it doesn't have those, but there is true kindness as well.

Justin and Sanchez1,

Just about every time I go out, we hear ex-pats moaning about how bad things are here now and how they wish they were back in the UK. They constantly complain about the Spanish and yet they have not made any attempts to integrate into what is quite obviously a different culture, in addition to a different language and a different country. And then when I come on this, and other ex-pat forums, I read the same from others who appear to be exactly the same.

You both and I move in different circles, so that's why I see the ex-pat situation differently I suppose, and yet we have many Spanish friends.

Also, it is different for you two, as both of you know me, and know where I come from, and also know that I have gone to great lengths before making a huge, life changing decision to move to another country. You also both know that it takes a lot for people to wind me up.

That being said, I'm afraid that I have listened to far too much moaning on this thread from people who have no first hand experience as to what life in Spain is actually like, as they have never lived here themselves, and it is to those people that my last "rant" was aimed at.

How often have I ranted on this forum... very rarely. But lately, I suppose since life changed the Mrs and I dramatically late last October, I just can't seem to take the flak anymore and just 'give as good as I get'.

Other posters complain, whinge, rant and give their opinions.

So why is it my, shall we say, more optimistic view of life in Spain isn't any more right or wrong than anyone else?

Norman seems hell bent on demonising me, and for why? He doesn't know me and seems to think that I am wrong and he is right, and yet he has never lived in Spain!

Everyone else is entitled to rant on EOS and have their say, and yet when I do, I'm crucified for doing such!

Goodstich44

Yet another David W thing

Can't we just post and read each others valid points without the need to be questioned on every point

As fo me being "not friendly'' i don't think so!!

We all sympathize with your plight, we have all wished you a successful end to it but in the mean time take on board others opinions on broader issues. If you don't like what they say ignore them there is no need to "write'' back to every individual.

If you want to "back slap'' and "high five'' with your EOS cronies enjoy

As Normansands says " just give us the facts'' but  on the subject thread!!

Mr Fish,

Yes! I emphasised some points of my post as it was those points I wanted to make strongly, and I achieved such by using such emphasis.

The use of capitals is deemed as shouting, so I therefore highlighted those points in order for readers such as yourself to understand that it was those points I wished to make more strongly.

Poppyseed,

Quote "Technoape doesn't seem to have any tolerance for people who don't see things his way and he assumes far too much about things he doesn't know anything about. Justin gave a good balanced response."

If you read my previous post, you will see that you are correct in at least I have now lost a lot of tolerance. It is rather unfortunate, however they say "time is a good heeler", so I'm sure I will return to my "good ole self" at some point... hopefully sooner rather than later.

And for this I am truly sorry, so please people, try not t take offence.

However, I am quite taken aback with your statement that I assume far too much about things I know nothing about?

I have lived in Spain for over a year now and spent just over three years researching, preparing and ensuring that it was the correct thing to do for my wife and I. Therefore I believe I can and do make valid statements from time to time.

And what Justin said “Spain is a very different country to the UK and anyone wanting to live here needs to appreciate that this will bring with it new positive experiences as well as negative and frustrating ones.”

Did I not say the same “We are still learning Spanish and still integrating into the Spanish way of life, and even though we are not happy with everything that has happened, due to the world wide credit crunch which affected every country in the world, we are now living in another country and they have a completely different way of doing things, and we have accepted this and we get one with our lives.”

Lastly, Norman,

IMHO You have the least valid opinion of living in Spain, as you have never done so. If and when you do, then I will listen to your then valid opinions. Until then my friend, you and I are most definitely on different sides of the fence of life in Spain.

You do have valid opinions on other topics, and we have many times agreed to disagree, but I do believe on more than one occasion  we agreed to agree!

Everyone,

Please do not take offence to what I say, and more importantly how I say it, as no offence is intended.

Normandsands this will make me have sleepless nights!! lol

Techno i think it is bad form to belittle Norman, because if you think of his history (and the of Goodstich44) they have tried to buy in Spain and through no fault of their own haven't been able to.

So, yes a different side of the fence but not one i'm sure you or i would like to be on!!

Have an Alhambra reserva and enjoy your weekend

Colin

Please

You don't need to justify your views to anybody!! Especially those who have never had the balls to sell up and move to a new country. You carry on saying it as you see it and don't apologize or appease.

I agree.  Everyone is entitled to their own views even if we don't always agree.  I am glad you've settled well here although I know you've made a big effort to integrate and be a part of it all.

You have nothing to be sorry about.

Justin

Technoape, my comments related to the derisory comments and  assumptions you seem to have made about other people and their efforts (or in your opinion their lack of them) to change their lives etc. I don't think any of us know the full extent of what people have or haven't done unless they spell out in full detail a blow by blow account which many don't.

Team GB, many people have had the balls and tried to move to another country but have been thwarted for various reasons but certainly not for the want of trying.

The use of capitals is deemed as shouting, so I therefore highlighted those points in order for readers such as yourself to understand that it was those points I wished to make more strongly.

You are patronising me again

TeamGB. Please don't patronise Colin.

Who's Colin?????

 Dear All,

it seems (if allowed to comment), that what is bad now is only the beginning.......

For example, Spain, the third largest economy in the euro zone, lost its AAA rating in January.

and if you are dependant on the £...........

And that's where the outlook for the pound looks grim. Already, this week, negative forces have gathered against the pound taking it to its lowest level vs. the dollar in more than ten months!

Pitby got out of Dubai and perhaps it is time to get out of Spain?

but of course everyone's circumstances are different

also of course these general observations are based on only wishing to holiday in Spain, if the weather improves, and may not be valid.

do we live when on holiday??????

Regards

Norman

PS Colin is of course Techno' by another name

Dear Norman

Yes, some of us are living in Spain and don´t have a home in the UK  to return to. so how is it for us?  For the moment, we are enjoying life and able to manage here in spite of the poor exchange rate.  We don´t really want to read about people pointing out that the exchange rate is bad, although that is something we have to face up to.  We moved to Jumilla in June 2008 and feel that we have a better lifestyle than if we had stayed in London.

Sue

Suemac - yes, we are those people. 

We don't have a pension to rely on either...just our wits.  That is why in the last 13 years I have worked for a town hall, as a builder's labourer, cutting lettuce (the worst), welder/steel erector, fork-lift driver, warehouseman, salesman, owned an estate agents, owned a business (see web site), work as translator / interpreter, along with rebuilding from ruins an old farmhouse.

All well and good.  So what? you may ask.  The point is we WANT (sorry again, Mr Fish) to stay in Spain because it is SO much better here in every way.  But....if there's no money, there's NO MONEY! 

We are appalled at the thought of returning to Britain. 

I suppose I could try standing on the roundabouts in Torrevieja but I think I would probably be posting negative returns to my accountant!

I think one of the main problems is that, as most of the people on this forum seem to be British, everyone compares to the UK - when, in fact, that is not the case for all.

First rule of living abroad: don't convert your money back into your native currency!  Spend the local currency without comparing the prices by converting back!!

We didn't leave the middle east for financial reasons, we left because we began to hate living there and wanted to have some culture back in our lives!!  We chose Spain because we had a holiday home here - had we a holiday home in France or Italy, we would be there right now, no doubt.  We don't convert everything back into Dirhams (and certainly not Pounds) because we are paid and spend in Euros.

There is the same crappy weather here that most countries in the world enjoy at some point in the year (as is demonstrated by this torrential and persistent rain at the moment).

"do we live when on holiday?" - no, Norman, and you will never be able to grasp what it's like to live in a country until you have actually done so!

And other than the horrid weather and even more horrid income tax (that we haven't experienced in decades!), we are, at this moment in time, enjoying being here!  Next weekend, when it's meant to be clear again (and forecast to get better after that!!) we may even be able to get back out on the golf course!!

Edited to say:  Obviously, if you rely on currency exchange rates to live, then it's a different matter - but then maybe your "five year plan" or otherwise should have allowed for fluctuations in any exchange rate!

Also, remind me to avoid the Torrevieja roundabouts!!  The Estepona one is bad enough!!

Agree, to an extent, with Pitby.  When we lived in Cyprus we "thought" in Cyprus pounds and compared prices using that criteria rather than comparing them with UK prices.  In Spain, a big problem is that many people have imported a UK style of living and buy goods that they were used to in UK hence quite a hike in costs.  I personally like the Mediterranean diet and, whilst not going the whole hog and having roast rabbit paella every night, do enjoy the Spanish delicacies, especially the lunches.

Looking back a long way on this site, virtually everyone was happy with their lot in Spain with very few negative points.  What obviously changed a couple of years ago was the crashing pound which affected virtually everyone on the Costas.  The Brits stopped buying, the builders went to the wall.  If you look back to previous posts you will see an almost overnight change in the tone of the posts.  A thread like this would never have even been started then!  Where I do disagree with Pitby is the planning for currency fluctuations.  We did but certainly didn't expect it to drop so much.  In fact, we thought the worst it could get would be 1.25 (and that, at the time, was being very pessimistic).  To have it fall so much has affected those who rely on their money from pensions or other fixed incomes from UK.  

Of course, the greedy town hall officials who jumped on the bandwagon to grab the money coming from (mainly) UK haven't helped.  Perhaps if the previous government had enforced regulations a little bit more, we wouldn't have the problems that the local governments are now facing in trying to clear up this mess (building on restricted land etc.).  I do feel for everyone who has been caught out by these unscrupulous people and realise that it's no good saying "they should have done their homework" because, in most cases, they did.  I was caught out (well, not as bad as many) at the outset by trusting an obviously flawed system.  In my case, it has been resolved without too many tears but it did teach me not to trust anyone in the property market (apologies to those honest estate agents out there) and to seek independent advice all along the way.  

I hope the really negative views don't put too many people off moving to Spain as it is still a great place to settle down in provided you don't keep comparing it with UK.  I know I don't actually live there yet but I have had a place there for some 10 years and have lived abroad most of my life so I do feel a bit qualified to put my pennyworth in. 

The biggest piece of advice I could give anyone who is contemplating buying in Spain is to take out a mortgage regardless of how small (even 10%) as the banks do more to protect your (and their) money than any of the solicitors, agents or builders/developers. 

I am very much looking forward to moving over permanently but would never "slag off" the UK to the extent that some people do.  I no longer like living in the UK but feel this has more to do with this present governments control-freak attitude and the lies and deceit that seem to permeate every level of public life.  I can't see this changing overnight even if the government is changed at the next election!  It will take a long, long time for the British public to regain confidence in any politician or our target driven public services.

Hi Suemac

Sanchez

Apologies if you have mentioned this before - being a pensioner myself, my short-term memory isn´t as good as it used to be!

What age group do you and your wife fall into?

We are in our early thirties.  Jumilla sounds similar to my wife's home town in Jaen.  It is always lively and the bars are usually full with a mix of different people.  I think Manilva has been hit particularly hard by Spain's economic depression.  It's economy was entirely based on property speculation and tourism.

It's funny - after reading your post before leaving work on Friday, I was in Mercadona and ended up buying a couple of bottles of red from Jumilla.  I don't know if it was your post or the 1€ price tag that made me choose the Jumilla!  Unfortunately one of the bottles smashed on my way home on my scooter.  I ended up with 750ml of Jumilla red in my scooter helmet box!  It just sums up living in Spain at the moment