Is living in Spain really that bad now???

bobaol: yes, i know certain types of pension are not subject to tax in spain, i mentioned it in an an earlier reply. my husband has a small armed forces pension which is subject to be taxed only in uk. however, it is not enough to pay tax on and the tax accountant in spain says it will still have to be declared, as all income has to be declared anyway. regarding your nhs pension( which i also have) you cant just ask the nhs to pay it without tax deducted- you have to do it via the tax office at the number i gave before. they will send you an f9 form in english and spanish which you complete and send with other documents, such as copy of padron and nie to the spanish tax office in your region.  they will send the english half back to you stamped, which you then send to the tax office in england. your nhs pension will then be paid gross. it doesn't matter if it is paid into a spanish or english bank account, the tax liability is still the same.  i am not "making sweeping statements" i have lived here many years, been through this procedure, unlike many ex pats who simply refuse to pay tax on ther pensions from the uk  out here. you cannot sort your tax affairs out in spain without contacting this office. also, if you have  savings in banks or building societiesin the  uk, you have to declare the interest on them as part of your income. again the tax office mentioned will send relevant forms. its a pain sorting it all out, but that's life!

 Now how the heck did this thread get around to talking about 'tax in Spain'????

Anyways, back on topic....

Yes it is, maybe it's not, no it isn't.... depends where you are coming from.

As for us... yes it is from two years ago when we planned the move, but we are still far better off here in Spain than we ever could have been in the UK!

TechNoApe - they used to say  "Never buy anything from Bill Gates that ends in a .0" - only Bill could use his clients as beta testers!

I'm delighted that you are offering a great service to your clients.

Camposol - I understand your anger and I agree with you.....but...even the crooks (and they are legion) have brought something to the Spanish economy, in IVA etc paid on everything they have bought such as petrol, building materials, food in restaurants.  Think of the billions and billions of euros that have come to Spain in the last 30 years.  Where has that gone? Don't forget that a Spanish / foreign autonomo (self-employed person) could die of starvation in Spain if their business were to go bust.  Spain is the greatest place in the world as long as you don't need to eat.

ayrez....."Just for the record we also drive a Sspanish reg car despite living within 10 minutes of Camposol."...you don't  think that you can legally drive a UK reg car in Camposol do you? - it is still Spanish territorial property, even though they may wish it wasn't!

bobaol -  as I plan to die before I'm of pensionable age, I have no idea about pensions.....so...a question...why are you paying tax on pension payments when you paid tax when you paid the premiums?  Isn't that tax on tax?...with VAT thrown in for good measure?  Ah...I get it...someone has to pay for the Kinnock's, Blair's and Brown's expenses.  All clear now.

Getting back on topic, it doesn't look like things in Spain are getting much better judging by the latest news.  Unemployment is still rising and there is a growing glut of properties on the Spanish market.

Meanwhile, the UK seems to be recovering very strongly at the moment.  Consumer confidence is at a two year high and the Services PMI figures were very strong. 

I still think Spain is years away from any recovery, especially as we are stuck with the current government for another couple of years.

Sanchez1

yes, the UK is starting to move forward I feel. Our website has had far more enquiries than this time last year. I think the fact that all political parties are recognising the need to deal with the debt crisis is helping, though how it will be done remains to be seen?

This is not a rant...

Goodstitch and Sanchez...

...And all this talk is doing wonders for the exchange rate ...again...NOT!

My pensions are down 3.5% on last month...another 65 Euros lining someone elses pocket...

The Winter Fuel Allowance just about balances out the deficit over a year however, so whilst for pensioners in the UK its a bonus to those over here its just balancing the books. I just wonder what the UK pensioners position would be if their pensions were subject to between 3 and 5% variation every month...usually downward...

Are things so bad over here?

Well, I guess I'd have to say yes if only from a personal point of view and thats all any of these thread responses are.

Half of Spain under floodwater, including the valley in our village, a 2 foot deep ford across the back road out of the village.

First puff of wind and the power goes off for hoursat a stretch. Can't even use the netbook for the internet then because we have no 3G coverage for the dongle and the router is mains powered...

Last night amid yet another torrential downpour the powers that be decided to turn off the water.It is now 6.15pm and its still off...nary a trickle...not that you can drink the tap water anyway; its declared non-potable, fit only for washing and flushing the loo. Its a trk to the other end of the village to fill several 5 and 8 litre bottles from the well or buy commercial bottled water from the shop.Last time they turned it off was Christmas Eve and it was off until the 28th December.

So yes, I guess you could say that things are pretty bad...and yet...would I give it up and go back to England? No Way Jose!

The thought holds absolutely no attraction for me whatsoever.

"I appreciate a challenge," he said, tongue in cheek... and its just as well because every day, every week, every month brings a new one! The latest challenge is yet another street dog who has attached herself to us...so we now have our original two from England and the two abandonados.

fb

I have to say 'Yes, it is!!!!!!!!!!'

I have returned to the UK to visit my daughter and to be honest I am having the best time. As Foxbat says, I have no problem with water, electric, internet, telephone, communication, opening hours of shops, getting a descent bottle of wine, going to the supermarket 24 hours a day, going out for a decent meal at a decent cost, meeting like minded people, visiting the library, obtaining any information from the council without having to make 13 appointments to get a response!!!!

It has been the most enjoyable trip, so enjoyable I have decided enough is enough, this is not an overnight decision I have been thinking about it now for 3 years,  I am moving back to the UK rain and all, I don't care.....

I have definately noticed a difference in the attitute of the spanish where I live and I am not knocking that as it is very understandable, they have had an invasion of the brits and they have had enough so I am quite prepared to move over and let the Belgiums and Germans have their share.

I will probably just lock the house up and leave it for a year as nothing is selling at the moment and to be honest I don't need to sell, I am one of the lucky ones. I have owned a property for 10 years now and have noticed a massive difference in attitutes to the brits since we came to Spain.

I think if you enjoy drinking and socialising then you will be happy in Spain but to be honest there is more to life than a little sunshine.

After a long day at work today, and having had some tapas during my two hour lunch break, I came home and cut the grass on the lawn, as it was bright and nice and warm.

Then, when I finished, as it was still so warm, I grabbed a cold beer from the fridge and sat outside in a chair on the roof terrace, and watched the sun go down!

Cor! Living in Spain is so bad now... really!

I mean, as I speak, it is now 9.15pm CET (8.15pm GMT), quite dark outside and only 14 degrees!!! So I've had to come inside now.

Techno, ok, we know it can be great here, as it can be anywhere in the world, but a few days - or even months on end - of good weather doesn't a good lifestyle make!!!  There, obviously, are many other factors!!

We had good weather most of the year in the middle east, but that didn't make it a place we wanted to live in and bring up our child in  - it was just convenient at the time!  We chose to live in Spain, after deciding to leave the middle east, because we had no desire to live in the UK, wanted a life which included culture, history and morals that would be good for our son and, as it happened, had a holiday apartment in Spain, so chose to base ourselves here (have lived outside Europe for many, many years).

So - the weather for us has been absolute crap!!  The tax for us has been an absolute smack in the gob!!  The attitude has, in most instances, been very welcoming (save for some arrogant Brits, I have to say!), but overall I'm really enjoying being here!  Can give you a thousand reasons (and more!) why I would never consider moving back to the Middle East - but can't really comment about living in the UK as we haven't done so for so long!  So can't really compare anything to the UK - but it certainly, for me, beats living in Dubai!!

Following experiences in Spain, South Africa and an Arab state in North Africa it has made me appreciate and respect the UK  despite it's faults far more. 

When living in North Africa Malta seemed like heaven, but I remember saying this to a Maltese friend who was shocked. They reminded me that compared to North Africa Malta may seem like heaven but compared to the UK it was rubbish, and they were quite right. So anywhere can seem good depending on where you are comparing it to. Our experiences in North Africa inlcuded attempted coups with road blocks and tanks on the streets and bombing raids by the US. And they were the minor details of day to day life! South Africa was like living in Dodge City with gun crime the highest in the world. 

At the end of the day it all boils down to individual values and priorities, we're all different and what suits one doesn't suit another. I for one have discovered that sun, sea and sangria doesn't bring the peace of mind and security I feel I need as I get older and I certainly don't feel secure in Spain, if anything it sends my blood pressure and stress levels soaring!!!  All be it for different reasons  I have found Spain to be on a par with North and South Africa, so that drink in the afternoon and sundown is a necessity in Spain to calm down!!

Scandinavia however must be one of the best places to live despite the cold winters (where they cope very well),  the summers are good and the infrastructure, integrity and honesty is second to none.

To those who have found the place they want to be I wish you all the best wherever you are.

This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 05/03/2010.

Interesting to read all these messages and it is funny how each side comes up with exactly the same arguments for or against the UK or Spain.

I lived for over 10 year in Spain and in the UK and if you drill down to the bits you will find that the main problem is based on the language.

In the UK you can talk, you can understand, you can reply, you can interfere, you can complain. You most likely live in a established area, have friends and family and go to your local to moan or party if you feel like it.

All very reasonable points

In my experience, in Spain you live around other expats, a lot of them are crooks trying to cash in on you, you miss your family and friends, you watch English TV and at the beginning you tell yourself how great it is not to live in the UK anymore. You make an effort to learn the language, but it is just too easy to call the English plumber and anyway why don't they all speak English, it would be so much easier.

I think it is important to compare apples with applies. If you live around Madrid or Barcelona you rarely have issues with water or electricity. Everything is very much organised and a proper structures in place. Try to get Broadband or 3G in rural areas of Britain? No chance there.

In the end it depends what you really want. Because of the very bad work situation in the UK, the horrendous house prices, the incredible high crime rate, the terrorist thread at your house door and the total bankruptcy of most councils, I now live in Brussels, where it is still possible to find a well paid and good job. But I only work for one thing, to return back to Spain, back to my Spanish friends which are all suffering at the moment, to the healthy, pollution free air, the healthy food and to Juan's bar around the corner for a good old chat about all the things wrong in Spain.

I think if you all read what I say in my posts about life in Spain, you will find that I'm not saying Spain is the best country in the world in which to live and also that I agree Spain has problems. However....

The question of this thread is:

"Is living in Spain really that bad now?"

And my answer is No!

Why?

Because it doesn't matter about the problems that Spain is facing, we still live here and have to make the most of it!

We did the same in the UK until we decided, that for us, we would face the same problems but would be better off and have a better quality of life whilst living in Spain as opposed to the UK, and for us that is true!

So my last reply, whilst being very 'tongue in cheek', was making that point! I still work for a living and get stressed, I still have to cut the grass or do DIY jobs around the house when I come home from work... but when I'm finished, thanks to it being a much more temperate climate, I can sit outside and breath the fresh air, our health is better, we have a healthier diet, we go for walks on the beach or in the campo... we have a much healthier life full stop.

I suppose I'm getting fed up with people complaining about how bad things are because they live in Spain. If it is that bad, then do something about it!!!! Go back to the UK if you think that will be better for you!

Four years ago when we made a five year plan (yes! I know!) to make a better life for ourselves, we didn't come on this forum and moan at people how bad things were in the UK... no! We just got on with it and looked forward to making a new start in Spain.

In other words... we just got on with it!!!

We now live in Spain and even though things aren't as great as they could have been, say had we moved here four years ago, we made the move and started a new life... we did something about it!

We are still learning Spanish and still integrating into the Spanish way of life, and even though we are not happy with everything that has happened, due to the world wide credit crunch which affected every country in the world, we are now living in another country and they have a completley different way of doing things, and we have accepted this and we get one with our lives.

I believe that most ex-pats that do moan about life in Spain are the ones that cannot, or do not want to, integrate into the Spanish way of life! The amount of people we meet here that have lived here some considerable time and haven't even bothered to learn even basic Spanish, and treat the Spanish as if they are in a Little Britain. No wonder then that they think that the Spanish are rude, but it is those ex-pats that are the ones that are being rude!

So, if you are fed up of life in Spain, the UK, the Middle East or wherever you live... then be like ourselves, Pitby, JodiSte and many others and either make the most of what you've got or do something about it!!!

Having just got back from a six week stay in Spain it has started to give us a real insight into Spanish life. This is the third time we've done this as part of our own "relocation'' process. We have tried not to treat this as a long holiday, but as a serious integration exercise. We have kept to a strict budget, tried to eat and live heathier and mix with as many Spanish people as we could.

Well!! Firstly the weather my god has it been awful. As far as food and the healthy life we both feel great, i have lost twelve pounds and believe i drank less in Spain than i would in the UK. We did feel that we are to young to retire completely  and on our next trip (01/05) we are going to look at employment, legal employment. Were not sure that cleaning, airport runs are our thing!!

The thing we noticed this time is expats fall into two definate categories those who have  retired here and those who have swopped sterling morgages for euro ones and the life that goes with that.

The pensioners have suffered with the exchange rate and what that entails with a fixed income. The younger expats seem to have had no continuity of work, have spent the savings and now seem to charge higher prices mainly to other Brits offer a bad service, and end up ripping them off (the only two problems we've had in Spain is Brits ripping us off) and then HAVING to go home.

So is Spain the place??

For us it all revolves around what WE determine as the better value for OUR retirement. This includes weather, standard of living, and peace of mind. We don't have to decide today but if we did we would opt for ............................................

Please accept that just because i have not mentioned the fraud/injustice issues doesn't mean they are ignored

Colin, I have to disagree with your post.

The expats that moan the most are generally those that HAVE made a serious effort to fit in with the Spanish way of life.

We have English friends who wouldn't hear a bad word said about Spain yet they can't speak or understand Spanish, have no Spanish friends, live in predominantly closed expat communities, drink in English bars, never read the Spanish news, etc.

They are so isolated from real Spanish life that they could be living anywhere in the world.  Most are interested in the weather and cheap beer...but they are happy and if they are happy then that's great for them.

These are really the expats that rarely moan (they can't really) and who appear to remain in Spain far longer than those who truly make the massive effort to integrate and hence experience the frustrations as well as the joys.

It IS very difficult to truly adapt to the Spanish lifestyle.  I am fluent in Spanish, I have a few Spanish friends, drink in Spanish bars, live in a predominantly spanish community and read the Spanish news every day.  I see the good and bad in Spain and I see why it works for some and not others.

What makes me sad is how bad things have become for so many people and so many businesses.  Everyone in the private sector is really struggling.  Many expats are leaving as they have little choice and things don't seem to be improving.

You mentioned the weather in your post but since the middle of December we have had non-stop rain, often torrential causing huge damage to surrounding areas.  Yesterday was a rare day even though we still put the fire on as it was cold indoors.  There is so much more to Spain than the weather.

Spain is a very different country to the UK and anyone wanting to live here needs to appreciate that this will bring with it new positive experiences as well as negative and frustrating ones.  It's how people cope with the negatives and the level of their integration that determines how long they remain in Spain.

Justin

David W

It's very interesting reading all the different opinions on living in Spain. I'm with Poppyseed on this one, as I have far more repect for the UK now, having had nearly 8 years experience of Spain's legal and justice system. Much as I love Spain's climate (apart from this year!), the people, the space etc etc, all the sun, and pace of life  in the world wouldn't make up for the corruption and dreadfull injustice in Spain for me. The scandinavion integrity and honesty holds far more appeal for me now, but I feel the UK sits somewhere in between, so probably suits me best, warts and all! . My kids have a good education, we don't live in an area of violence or robbery, and the main thing for me is knowing that when things go wrong in the uk, there's a fair chance of regulation sorting it out without having to take everything through a very dubious legal syystem. That's what I call peace of mind !

Again, as Poppyseed says, I wish people all the best where ever they choose to live. I very much believe in each to his/her own.

Goodstitch44

Thanks for your TITLED reply to my GENERAL post

Why you felt the need to inform me by name of your new Scandnavion leanings i don't know?

I just gave a GENERAL opinion of MY life in Spain for six weeks.

Please just accept it as that!!

Hi Justin,

Nice post.

The expats that moan the most are generally those that HAVE made a serious effort to fit in with the Spanish way of life.

I think I probably fall in to this category.  Despite having a Spanish wife and having lived here for 14 months now, we've struggled to meet many Spanish people.  Mainly because the area is very British, apart from Manilva pueblo, which is still quite Spanish.  We try and avoid the expat bars where we are and tend to go to the Spanish ones, but the only Spaniards that seem to be able to afford to go out are the pensioners!!  So it seems difficult to meet any Spaniards our age.  I do have rather a large extended Spanish family through my wife, but they are spread out all over Spain, so don't get to see them as often as we would like.

I think longer term I'd like to move to a big Spanish city to experience the real Spain rather than the "version" of Spain we currently have, which is not really for me.

TechnoApe, You come across as very patronising, emphasising your words as if you are speaking to naughty little children or simpletons. Ok we've heard you now many times. Give it a rest...

Quite right Mr. Fish, Technoape doesn't seem to have any tolerance for people who don't see things his way and he assumes far too much about things he doesn't know anything about. Justin gave a good balanced response.

Sanchez

Apologies if you have mentioned this before - being a pensioner myself, my short-term memory isn´t as good as it used to be!

What age group do you and your wife fall into?  We live in a predominately Spanish community in Jumilla, northeast Murcia.  We meet friends for coffee several times a week, and there are always young people in the different bars as well as pensioners.  Usually a mix of women with babies and young children nattering away to their friends for hours over their café and tostado, work colleagues enjoying their morning break and pensioners reading the papers for free (that includes us!).  At weekends, on the couple of occasions when we have been out for lunch, there has been a mixture of young and old and similarly when we have been out for tapas and vino in the evening.  This may be because the bars here are offering lots of deals such as "vino y queso" for 2€ (with a scratchcard for every glass of wine and tapa you purchase) or caña y tapa for 1.50€.

I agree with Justin that life can be frustrating at times, however we are still enjoying ourselves here, having moved from London to Jumilla nearly two years ago.

Sue