Is living in Spain really that bad now???

 Tish,

My Son wants to work at our hotel (his language skills are so useful) he loves the hotel life and meets people from all over the world and from all walks of live,

My Daughter wants to get involved in the activity side of our business and will probably be very good at it too although she may want to change her mind as she is still only 13.

I think that anyone with 4 languages at "A" level standard will get work wherever they live.

A good education is essential nowadays unless they are "Streetwise" enough to be great entrepreneurs.

You've got it sussed Sid! They can look after you in retirement too! Good luck to you all. I sincerely hope it works out well for you. Your hotel looks fab.

Language skills are a great asset. ) My daughter got an A grade at A level in Spanish.  She was going to go to University to do Spanish & Business Studies but got  such a great offer from M&S whilst  doing temp work, that she did not go to uni and has never looked back.  She went on to gain a CIPD qualification, (Chartered Institute of Personel & Development ) and has worked for the last 10 years for another blue chip company. Sadly she never used her Spanish skills and they are now not much better than mine!!

I must say its an absolute pleasure to read a post that is not full of doom and gloom.

It proves that Spain despite its problems is still for many a great place to raise a family and enjoy all that it has to offer.

Long may you prosper.

Dear All,

the Devon news is shocking and the officials attitude typically appalling.

it sounds a lot like Techno's experience.

who would not wish to escape that???????

what a great story though, fantastic to read and perhaps visit, thanks again Sid.

I must live in a bit of a bubble here.

Regards

Norman

Sidyid....

I don't know if you are far enough inland for this or whether the humidity from the sea would spoil it.

When we lived in Almería, 40 minutes from the coast, one could sit out in the summer, turn out all artificial illumination, and look up at the stars.  It was incredible.  After about 15 minutes - after your eyes had acclimatized, the whole sky was white with stars, the Milky Way a brilliant streak across the sky.  And no - I don't use mind altering drugs, unless you include Mahou *****.

Could be a sales pitch for you!

 Max...

It is phenomenal, My house is on the edge of a village we are surrounded by pine trees and have no light pollution whatsoever, we can even see the satellites moving across the sky and often see shooting stars......incredible.

 i can't believe i'm living in the same country as guslopez and max kite. guslopez- do you live in a mud hut? my ibi is over 300 euros for a modest 3 bedroom villa. max kite, do you live in shangri la? you wouldn't leave your doors -open here, or car keys unattended. stuarte- if you are looking for a tax free life- for God's sake don't come here, unless you are looking for a life of crime!i've lived here 9 years and am sick of these people running down  UK.  of course it's cheaper if you don,t pay what you are supposed to, spanish car tax, work licences, spanish income tax on income from uk etc. it is rubbish that fruit  etc is cheaper here; very little is cheaper here anyway-have you never seen a tesco advert? as for crime, i've never met so may people who have suffered from scams, mugging, burglaries as i have here, and these are not gullible people either. i am not a beer swilling, fag puffing stereotype either. i speak spanish, like the spanish culture, pay income tax on my pensions, car tax, itv, and everything else i'm supposed to, unlike may of my fellow ex pats.yes i would like to go back to the uk, if i could sell my villa, because, warts and all, uk is still the best for the ageing ex pat.no use waiting till one is too feeble to pack up and sort it all out. living here 9 years has shown me that no amount of research can prepare you for this often corrupt, money bleeding,unregulated country. no amount of sun can help you if you have a problem,yet some think it is the panacea for everything!

Hi Camposol, no we don't live in a mud hut but a 4 bed, 2 bath finca on 3000m2 which we purchased from our neighbours mother . ( He & his siblings were born in the house ) As the house is in excess of 100 years old it had , when we bought it ,a valor catastral of 2837,83€ @ a rate of 0,74%=21€ Since the re-valuation in 2005, when they reduced the v. catastral to 2368,72,the amount has gone down to a % of 0,675% & the last IBI was for 15,99€. This is for the house only but there is no charge for the land, which is in production, as it is below the starting value of 1200 €'s. Yes I do everything legally, car tax, building licences etc, yes, we leave the house with both doors open during the day, as do all the neighbours (all Spanish ). If I go to my neighbours I just knock & walk in & sometimes you can't find anyone. I've never been scammed , robbed, mugged,burgled, had my car ( don't touch that it's a death sentence ) broken into, or anything else either here or in the UK. As the sign on the gate says, the dogs are friendly, it's the owner that's dangerous !  Yes, some food is slightly dearer but overall I don't consider it more expensive than the UK & as for fresh fruit & veg. it's far superior ! No I don't drink but do smoke & I speak Spanish as badly as my neighbours. Lorquino , in fact.

Yes there is corruption here but I knew that before I came but prefer it out in the open not hidden like it is in the UK. Unfortunately I have worked on many occasions over where you live & nothing filled me with dread like being asked to do work over there, to the extent that I would rather do nothing than depress myself & lose the will to live by going there.

I still consider that it is far safer here than the UK where I couldn't walk down the street ,in Londonat night ,100m to a chinese without the chance of being attacked. I moved to Devon in '84 & lived & worked their for 18 years untill I came here & that degenerated the same way. Lots of places became no-go areas at night & I know Trawler skippers in the centre of Brixham that never open their doors without a baseball bat ! Here I can walk into the bank & see teenage girls carrying the weekend takings in clear pastic bags. No , I'll stick with it here ,Thanks.

Just another thought spotting an earlier post is that our total outgoings, elec; drinking water, irrigation water, logs for 2 fires , gas bottles,House ins,Ibi,internet, phone,all costs including car tax , ins; etc; are less than 52€'s a week. The only additions are diesel , food & cigarettes. With the elec. We've got 2 fridges,2 freezers, w/mc on every day , irrigation pump as & when, s/pool pump on in the summer plus I weld & the bill is still only around 750 € a year.

Just to depress you further , if we want to sell, we should have no problem as the Spaniards, since we've lived here, are always door knocking @ all the houses asking if anyone wants to sell. Recently one like mine was put up for sale @ xmas for 470k, (but has more land than ours) & was  completed on at the begining of March @ 420k. Pus it needs completely renovacion ! We can swallow a 600% profit even in the crisis.

Hi Camposol,

You are not living in the same country - you are living in Camposol - which is a lump of Britain transplanted to the desert just outside Mazarron.  Just look at the "Commercial Centre". 

It's a bit like a lousy marriage - people move to a new area thinking that everything will be alright, but take their problems with them.  The Brits have moved to Camposol and brought all of the British problems with them too.

Who is committing the crimes?  Don't answer that - I know the answer.

I'm sorry, but I think you were unlucky in that you personally, with your Spanish language and positive attitude, would have been better buying in a small Spanish village away from the sun, sea & sangría mob. 

You're not comparing like for like.

Just my opinion.

 Dear All,

ouch,

this is confusing, paradise and hell almost, how many kms apart??????

Max, are you saying that the worst of uk has migrated to Camposol and it is the Brit ex-pats who are spoiling paradise?????

Clarification please.

Regards

Norman

Norman,

What I am saying is that Camposol, Polaris, and the rest aren't "Spanish Spain".

You don't go to Butlin's Minehead to immerse yourself in the Somerset culture.

QED

And another thing, Norman - Gus Lopez is right.  S'there!

Look - if people want to come and live on a golf course then that's great - (as long as they leave some agricultural water for the farmers), or if they want to live in Pontin's in the sun then that's fine as well.  BUT IT ISN'T SPAIN!!!!!!!

Norman - here's an example from a proper Spanish fiesta.  It is 3.00am and everyone has had a "good drink".

NO-ONE is fighting, there are children running between legs, babies in push chairs.

And this was about 6:00am.  Where's the blood?  The gore?  The torn-off ears?

hi guslopez

wish i was your neighbour! i certainly do wish i had moved somehere else. your place sounds idyllic . it does seem wrong that i am paying 379 euros ibi. i was told it was because we have facilities-roads, lighting  shops,etc. well, the roads are not maintained, the central reservation  and plants are kept tidy by volunteers, some roads never had a top surface put on, most are in disrepair. the lights are not checked-several are leaning over at perilous angles, and two years ago we had a period of 18 months with no lights at all. the shops are mostly bars and a rip off english shop.after 9 years we will eventually have the use of  a medical centre, currently being finished.the bus sevice is third rate, infrequent and does not enter the poligonos not much use to the eldely living 2kms from it . the mayor shows no sign of taking over the place, the developer has not finished it properly either. exactly why is our ibi so much more? everyone, wherever they live, has the use of fire. police and ambulance services, if required, eveyone uses the roads. even if they live up a dirt track, everyone has shops within a short distance, so again-why the difference in ibi? we paid 2400 euros for our deeds, 4 years after moving in, in 2002,have just paid 200 euros for thefin de obra to be registered, and we still have not received our cetificates of habitation even though we have had mains water and electricity for years. can you wonder why i feel resentment? even if i lived in your village, which sounds lovely, i would still worry about inheritance tax, because any tax that needs extreme measures to avoid it ,such as described in the press, certainly needs revision to make it fairer. it makes it worse that murcia has the lowest home allowance for FISCAL residents if a partner dies-50,000 euros as opposed to 140,ooo in valencia( i am not talking about the 16000 e  exemption, although that is pitiful enough)

obviously  many have had very bad experiences, even though they have gone about things the right way, used recommended lawyers, done all the research etc. the fact remains spain has many unregulated practices, if you fall foul  you may never get your rights.

many expats are only too keen to use dear old blighty, doing their 3 monthly ryanair trip when they are running out of tablets or want a scan, not at all worried that they arecommitting fraud by giving false addresses  in the uk and claiming nhs care they are no longer entitled to.

but i digress. it was interesting to read about you. i'm sure we'll meet again in print.

Camposol, don't be too unhappy because those with new properties within the Lorca ayuntamiento pay much more than guslopez.. We pay in excess of 600 euro IBI  because our house was only built 4 years ago when prices of property were soaring. Still much cheaper than UK though.

Cannot say that the Lorca area is crimeless, because some friends (holiday only  owners) have been burgled, but strolling about either in Lorca or in the campo late at night  we have never felt concerned.

Did see an incident in Aguilas last summer when a middleaged bar owner was chasing and fighting with two youths, heaven knows what they had done, but the guardia were quite happy for the owner to get his "pound of flesh" before arresting the youths who certainly appeared humbled by the experience.  Am sure the UK PC brigade have a lot to answer for !!

Camposol, I agree with all your post & as max said the sooner you can get out & find somewhere more tranquil the better for you. I wish you the best of luck . Regarding the inheritance tax I fully agree, but I remember that abolition of it was one of Zapateros election promises before he was unexpectedly elected the first time. I suppose that's fallen by the wayside in the present economic climate.

As Floella said the IBI will obviously be higher for newer properties as it's based on construction costs ,so if I do move I'll definitely be looking at the IBI payable first !! lol.

It's not only the IBI that is set & varies from council to council. You only have to look at a thread this week where the road tax for a ford focus, about 90 € in Lorca , is 52 € somewhere else & 37 € where Maxkite is.Yes, as Floella says it's not without crime here, but mainly it is in the campo. I know of 4 houses , all owned by Brits., that were burgled at xmas when they'd gone away. Now 2 of these houses are in places where if you didn't know they were there you'd never find them & as they each have 2 neighbours only & the road is 1km long & goes nowhere else ( you have to go out the way you came in ) It makes me wonder whether it is someone they all know !  Trouble is they all congregate in bars & tell each other when they're off, how long for,etc;

I fully agree with you about the ones who pop back to the UK for check-ups, prescriptions, etc,etc,etc. I can't stand it either, fortunately as I said I don't have any living near me & only bump into them , normally on a sunday when we go to a small market.

Guslopez,

You have explained exactly the situation of our friends property that was burgled. Reachable only via a no through track that only residents would know about .

Does make one wonder !!

Camposol - here's a question - to whom are you paying your IBI?  You can send me a private text if you wish. 

From what I can see from the Catastro, you are all living in a huge farm!

Where is your invoice?  Scan it and e-mail it to me.

 Dear All,

well, there it is, nothing compares to our £2,000 Council Tax, but does the IBI cover everything the Council Tax does?

Gus your locale seems idyllic compared to Camposol's.

But where do the holidaymakers buy, they need facilities not permanent lifestyle????????

Thanks for the almost magical input Gus.

Regards

Norman