Is living in Spain really that bad now???

But everyone will have a different answer  to this for different reasons and who is to say who's right or wrong?  -Poppyseed

Well, of course. That sums it all up and illustrates the fact that the very question put by this thread is capable of thousands of widely differing responses, depending entirely on the experiences and previously existing views of the respondents. You wouldn't expect the views of someone who had a trouble-free experience of house purchase, had no bad experiences of any kind with the authorities  and had no money worries to be even remotely identical to those who have  not  been in such a fortunate situation. My opinion from admittedly scant experience though is that the majority of people who have chosen to live in Spain are happy with the decision they made and are living basically the same kind of lives with the attendant problems that they would have in the UK but with the welcome bonus of sun and a more relaxed ambience.

My only advice to those thinking of relocating would be 'rent first for a year or even couple of years'. In that way you will be able to judge whether the lifestyle is really for you without having committed yourself.  Our decision to rent rather than buy was based on factors such as the need to be mobile and our intention to experience more than one environment but even if we had intended to buy we would have rented first and taken time to sound out our new surroundings. Since arriving here on the southern CDS near Marbella some fifteen months ago we have lived in three properties: one a townhouse in an old and very attractive pueblo-style urb., then a piso in a modern not very attractive urb. and finally to our villa where we hope to stay for at least a few more years. We found that community-style living was not for us although I can see its many attractions. If we had bought such a property without trying it out first we would not have been happy with our life in Spain. As it is, we have all the things we enjoyed in the UK -most importantly, peace and privacy. Horses for courses, as the saying goes.  Others might consider our lifestyle dull and boring.

On the whole, my lifestyle since leaving the UK has not been radically different, wherever I have lived. The same chores need to be done, same interests and hobbies pursued, same football teams watched on Sky....Until quite recently I commuted to work by plane -a shorter and less stressful journey from Prague at least than some UK City workers face in their cars or trains every day. In spite of being risk averse, I was able, more through luck than judgment, to stop work and begin to enjoy life at an age when most people face further years of work.  But it could so easily have been different and I take nothing for granted.

So because I have been fortunate -so far- I am able to answer the original question with a firm ;'No...life in Spain is good'. For me. But only a fool would ignore the fact that life has a habit of biting you in the bum when you least expect it.  Good luck can turn to bad quicker than milk sours in the Spanish sun. But if my luck changes, I hope I won't spend my days criticising those who are still enjoying the good times. Good luck to them and long may it continue. To those whom life has embittered..some people get the mucky end of the stick, often quite unfairly. Get over it. You have the rest of your life to live.

.

"Poppyseed, great post and that just about sums it up for those of you who have properties here, but don't actually live their lives here - is that correct?" 

"Phew, thats my final comment on this thread!"

Yes, you're right poppyseed - I didn't put that very well. 

What I meant to convey is that alot of people on here see 'living in Spain' as 'an adventure abroad', when to those who actually do live here, or anywhere abroad as an expat, mostly don't view it that way - it's just home to them.

Moving to and setting up a new home in a foreign country... well, yes! it is an adventure doing so, but as you say Jan, "most don't view it that way - it's just home to them."

Yes! We had an adventure doing so... but now we are at home in Spain, in our house. And we go on holiday back to the UK.

However...

Life itself is the great adventure!

And it is how we live it that gives satisfaction to oneself!

 Dear All,

thank you all for some great and reasoned posts, much appreciated from everyone.

sorry to all for not qualifying my claim that "Spanish lawyers are in the main corrupt"

I should have pointed out that my experience of these people is confined to those connected with developers and development in and around the areas investigated by me as possible holiday home locations and mainly CDS.

However all have to accept that a relaxed style to laws and regulations breeds a culture of lack of care to proper behaviour, including pushing, shoving, general rudeness and including illegality.

Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.

Neither can you turn the clock back.

I am now off to look at a replacement telly and in doing so will be staring at the alternatives intently, studying the specification and noting the brand and possible reported reputation.

How "risk averse" is that??????????

Any tips???

Regards

Norman

Well, I said I would ignore you but your last post was actually very pleasant, Norman.  Our problems arose when you took my post personally as applying to you, which it wasn't intended to do. I know absolutely nothing of your circumstances but it seems that you have had a similar experience to Goodstich. That is very sad. Perhaps you too come into the category of those who have been the victim of deception of some kind.

Most of us tend to take our own experiences as typical when in reality they're not.  Some of us also tend to nurse our bad experiences -to some extent I share that characteristic and can fly off the handle big-time when I feel I haven't been treated fairly. I am well aware of the corruption and inefficiency all too often accepted as the norm here in Spain. We Brits don't expect our professional people or public servants to be anything other than of the highest integrity and it can be a huge culture shock when it hits you in the face.  (I was going to include politicians but the expenses scandal has knocked that for six.) It's even worse when you have few if any means of redress. But believe me, that isn't confined to Spain. The countries of the former Soviet bloc are many many times worse. In my first year in Prague I was stopped and fined four times by the police -one was  fair enough as I was hurrying through an amber/red  light to get home to watch England play in the World Cup -but the others were trivial if offences at all. My mistake was to proudly display a UK sticker on my Czech-plated car. It's wrongly assumed that all Brits are rich and bribery of police officers is allegedly widespread, in fact many people carry a large denomination bank note with their driving documents just in case..... As for bureaucracy.....the phrase 'public servant' may have no Czech translation equivalent. The legal system beggars belief in its unfairness and inefficiency.  If you take a long cool unbiased look, Spain isn't doing too badly in its transition to democracy after forty plus years of dictatorship. Which doesn't mean there still isn't much to be done.

There are as many answers to the thread question as people to give them. I've given my opinion and I'm done too.

Oh and Norman, the new Sony Bravia looks good.  Big screen, HD ready etc. etc.   I'm not sure if it's got a digi-box built in for Freeview etc.  Comparing specifications etc. is essential, imo. Maybe 'risk averse' is just another word for 'sensible'?      I'm sure you use Kelkoo or similar for the best prices but I've found Amazon is quite good, surprisingly.

The only vice I'm not guilty of is gambling, being risk averse!! but then as my favourite author George Orwell wrote: 'It is not given to one person to have all the vices'.

 Dear All,

thanks again, much appreciated, lots recommend the Sony.

We suffer from age confusion to some extent and I have recently given up the Which subscription because the amazing choice these days, far exceeds their capacity to test and report.

Back on topic to some extent, many enthuse on the quality of market produce in Spain, which I found disappointing.

The supermarkets are often criticised but I believe they have transformed greengrocery. Perhaps it is not them but the producers under encouragement. Certainly something has happened which may even be genetic engineering.

Bananas, pineapples, grapes etc. are immeasurably better than they used to be, even apples and pears cannot be compared.

Something has changed.

I personally was hugely disappointed to visit Spain's orange groves with great enthusiasm, only to find the produce very ordinary, not at all what I was expecting.

Whilst I can eat well at the pub on it's £3.58 carvery, on an eat as much as you like vegetable basis, the problem comes with the wine to accompany it, £9 a bottle is the cheapest, then there is the dessert at similar cost to the carvery and coffee at £1.50.

Oh for wine at around a £1 a bottle, that could be dangerous.

There is a welcome improvement in the weather but wish as hard as you like you cannot change 12' to 22'.

Regards

Norman

It's not my mind but my eyes that are deteriorating (unless no-one has ventured to tell me otherwise)!  A new tv for the bedroom wall is needed as I can't rewad subtitles on our smaller one when I'm watching a foreign film in bed.

I must add my tuppence-worth on the topic of food which is very dear to my heart.  That and wine.

Wine : when I'm in a 'new' country I start off by buying the cheapest wine on the shelf for everyday drinking and working upwards price-wise until I find one that's more than just drinkable. I've got to about £4.50 equivalent here in Spain so far and I'm beginning to enjoy.  In the CR I had to reach the £10 mark before the wine went down the sink instead of down my throat.  The UK mark-up on wine is imo exorbitant - your £9 bottle was probably on offer for £2.99 at Tesco. The worst rip-off I've experienced was being charged £30 at at a London restaurant for a bottle I later saw at Oddbins for £4.99. As for coffee: I have never drunk tea in my life so good coffee (can't abide instant) is really important for me. I've never yet been served a disappointing cup/glass of coffee in Spain.

Fruit and Vegetables:  yes, in a way I'm just a little disappointed at the variety of these in Spain. I expected a greater variety of both.  Quality-wise I've no complaints although nothing seems to keep long before use which is good as that signifies freshness in most cases. A friend once brought a couple of kilos of the best oranges I've had in my entire life but they came straight off the tree and I've never found the same quality in shop-bought oranges or lemons for that matter.  Most of our fruit and veg comes from our local supermarket as it's more convenient to shop there. Our local market has good prices if you buy in large quantities but as there's only two of us and things don't keep it's not worth buying in bulk.

Meat and Fish:  well, what could anyone find wrong with the wonderful variety of fresh fish, seafood and meat?  Prices seem a little less than in the UK and quality is better, obviously for fish and seafood.  I do miss English lamb, though.

Overall, though, I'm more than happy with what I eat and drink here. I think anyone would if they'd moved here from Eastern Europe.  We've got several good restaurants within walking distance and prices are reasonable -about £50 equivalent for two with  a half-bottle of wine (I'm the only drinker) and coffee. Certainly better quality and less than I'm used to paying when I'm in Central London on business.

To be honest, I find little difference in eating habits wherever I go in Europe. It seems there is little left of traditional Spanish, French, Italian etc. etc. culture. Everything is homogenised which is a shame. Even the French have taken to MacDonalds!!!!!!

Ah well.....sobre los gustos no hay disputos.....

Norman -this is off-topic I know but.....I don't find 'Which' that helpful, haven't done since I became a serious surfer.  As I said before, sites like Amazon or Kelkoo give price comparisons and you can read product reviews on loads of sites.

I'm wondering about prices for electrical goods in Spain. I had a fantastic Krups Orchestra espresso machine, gave years of use, bought it for around £400 in a Macro wholesalers about ten years ago. It's now packed up because of the highly chalked water in the CR and nobody round here seems able to repair it. TBH we've had more than our money's worth from it and I want to buy another or similar. People say these kind of things -tvs too -are more expensive in Spain than the UK but they're to bulky to bring from the UK on a plane.

Any advice on buying electrical/electronic goods would be appreciated -for instance, are there Comet-style discount stores in Spain?

Praguepix.

Small domestic appliances are coming down in price in Spain.  We bought a small coffee maker (one that does espresso, capuccino, filter coffee etc) a couple of years ago and it cost 120 euros.  The same one is now at Carrefour for 54.90 so there is light on the horizon.

For things like TVs, DVD recorders etc then these prices are also coming into line with the UK prices.  For example, a 40 inch LCD LG tv at Carrefour is going for 529 euros.  However, whilst I have had no problems with them, some people do say their after sales is pretty poor if, indeed, non-existent.  Media Markt (branches all over Spain) are really good with cheap prices and a good after sales service.  They are a bit like Currys in UK and do everything from kettles through TVs and giant fridges etc.  Unfortunately, their website does not give prices so you have to go to the shop to compare.

And, wow, you got to the £4.50 wine?  We stopped at the €2.50 mark and find them excellent.  And, yes, I do agree that fruit and veg from the markets are very fresh.  Tomatoes, especially, have a much better taste than the supermarket ones.  In fact, I very rarely have them in UK but have one virtually every day in Spain.  Same with the onions, the red ones great in a salad, the white ones marvellous for a sandwich and the shallots are brilliant in pasta sauces.  There are many vegetables that we see but haven't tried yet (there's one that has the outer leaves like a cauliflower but the flower inside has yellow spikes, like broccoli but pointy....really feel like trying that).

Again, we waste loads when we visit, such as the cauliflower or cabbage which would be great if we could blanche it and freeze it but we have to throw most of it away when we leave.  We get our oranges from the market and buy 3 or 4 kilos at a time.  They make marvellous, fresh orange juice.  The packet stuff gives me indigestion but the freshly squeezed is a joy.  Usually have a few left over for bringing back to UK as well. 

The slight disappointment is the potato.  Only seems to be one type and rather miss the Jersey Royals or the Desiree or, even, the King Edward.  Still, I could do with giving them up for a while anyway.

I do love going along the seafront in Torrevieja which has a wide variety of restaurants to choose from.  There is a Burger King (I think) amongst them but it is usually empty as people prefer the other restaurants along there.  Even the grandkids preferred the restaurant burgers to the fast food ones even though they usually picked one of the pasta dishes.  Except for the youngest one (8) who prefers to order the sausage and chips and picks steak and chips when we go the Chinese restaurant.

Still, it would be a funny old world if we were all the same.

Thaks for that information, bobaol. Technology of espresso machines has no doubt advanced since we bought the Krups and I'm sure that we won't need to pay quite as much for a satisfactory replacement.

I have found a very decent wine for underr 3 euros but I'm trying to cut down on food and drink so I'm being very abstemious and drinking one glass of 'good' red each night - no more. I was developing a G&T habit that was helping to pile on the lbs, alas.

Now you come to mention it, there isn't much variety of potato. Our supermarket has three sorts: 3 kilo bags, 5 kilo bags and small bags for microwaving.....Shame as I like good potatoes with dill and salt.  Almost a meal in itself.

I remember Torrevieja when it was a small village surrounded by salt-flats and orange groves..........

Well Norman

as usual when your are defeated by a reasonable argument  you go completely

off topic.

However you continue to amuse

i quote

There is a welcome improvement in the weather but wish as hard as you like you cannot change 12' to 22'.

Regards

Norman

is this a complaint from the missus id be happy with the 12  

 Dear All,

sorry I forgot the super tomatoes.

12' comfortably passed today with sun and jackets left off, but still not 22'

Regards

Norman

Don't understand Norman where 22 comes into the equation it was barely 14 in Lorca today and that was in full sun.

baboal, you can freeze both cabbage and cauliflower. Blanche shredded cabbage for maximum of 2 mins and for cauliflower add some lemon juice to the water and blanche for 3 mins,   Immerse both in cold water and drain before freezing..You could also make portions of cauliflower and gratin and freeze them. Simples

Basically it is only salad ingredients i.e lettuce, cucumber  that one cannot freeze

 Whatever happens they can not take the sunshine away

 Dear All,

sunshine, shorts and tee shirts in Maidstone today, not for me of course but even I left the jacket off.

22' was reported in Marbella the other day, surely 14' must have been in the shade somewhere??

Regards

Norman

14 degrees WAS in the sun in Lorca on Monday. Colder in the shade.

15 mins inland from Lorca on Sunday, at 1pm, registered only 7 1/2 degrees . Not all of Spain basks in hot weather at the moment . Haven't seen anyone wearing 't' shirts and shorts since last October here. So lucky you in Maidstone.

Thank you Floella,

Ouch, that is not enough to get out in the garden even...................

Our grass is growing again

Surely this is freak weather for you???????????

Norman 

To still have heavy morning frosts at this time of year and for the temp not to rise into the late teens by noon  I do believe it is Norman. No frost this morning though and for once there is not a cloud in the sky but I am still wearing several layers of clothing to combat the chill in the air. Even the most hardened swimmers have been avoiding their pools . So for me, personally, living in Spain is really bad at the moment .

Plus...whatever the Spanish Government want the world to believe  the recession here is getting worse. So many Spanish shops  offering their wares with 50% off, liquidation signs or simply closing overnight the future is looking grim.

For the past three days we've been sunbathing half-naked by our pool although no way would I even contemplate going in it for at least another two or three weeks. I would estimate the temperature to be around 22-25C here, more in direct sun. It's quite windy out of sheltered spots though and chilly at night.  We Brits have a tendency to moan about weather, though. Too much of anything is seen as unacceptable as is not enough. We moan that it's cold and moan when we have too much sun. Ditto with rain. The truth is that moaning and whinging is the English national pastime and there's nothing we enjoy more than a good old moan.

As for signs of the recession.....yes, there are shops around here offering huge discounts on big-ticket goods, that's true, but a visit to a shopping mall such as La Canada in Marbella gives an entirely different picture. The carpark is packed and shops are bustling. Whether people are buying as they used to in the good old days is another matter.

The recession in the UK hasn't been that bad for a lot of people either.  Many people with good incomes and steady employment with hefty mortgages are benefting from low interest rates. Many peoople who lost their jobs have quickly found others. My son, an IT project manager, worked for years in the City for a leading bank and chose redundancy rather than relocate to Scotland. He received a substantial pay-off, formed his own consultancy and within six weeks was working at another leading financial institution along with many others who had been in the same position and had very swiftly found new employment, some tens of £k richer from redundancy pay-offs.

Now I know that not everyone has been so fortunate but very many have and when you take into account the fact that one in six UK households -not including pensioners - rely on the state for their incomes then it's less surprising that shopping centres, restaurants and other such places are doing relatively well. I don't possess enough detailed information about the state of the Spanish economy to be able to make meaningful comparisons but I would hazard a guess that unemployment benefits and the plethora of Plan E schemes have cushioned many if not all Spanish workers against the worst effects of the burst property bubble and the recession and high unemployment concomitant upon it.