Is living in Spain really that bad now???

Technoape,

You sound like a politician  when you say things like this:

due to the world wide credit crunch which affected every country in the world

The fact is that Spain has been and is continuing to be battered by it's own economic recession/depression.  It is entirely of it's own making due to sky high property prices and rampant property speculation.  It was a house of cards that would have collapsed with or without the "world wide credit crunch".

The rest of the world is out of recession now, Spain is far from it.  Countries like China, Australia and India had no recession at all.

Reading some of your posts, I don't see how you can be so optimistic about Spain.  I would love to be more optimistic about Spain's future because I would love to stay here, but I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.  It's going to be a long hard decade I think.

Dear All,

once again good posts all round.

The court thing may surprise Goodstitch but it was nothing to do with displaying my withered appearance to the easterly wind, which has returned with a vengeance.

It was in fact a corruption trial against Councillor and Developer, perhaps not usual here, but it does happen and I believe the tip of an iceberg, though of course not a Spanish size one.

On the food side, I have enjoyed food in both Spain and France, but neither actually compare with good British food.

We had meals at our local carvery the other day at £3.58 a head and it was superb.

We have fresh free range meat, beef, lamb and pork from the family and neighbours' farms.

Our pork sausages and bacon are to die for and our eggs are in fierce demand.

We have been buying boxes of local conference pears which are delicious.

I would like it warmer but not too hot, however I have had to start putting sun cream on the bald pate again for this year.

Good to hear that our miserable £'s are still in demand there and special cheap deals are becoming available to entice us back.

Forgot to get meat out of the freezer for Sunday dinner and will have to make do with steak and mushrooms.

Its a hard life!!!!!

Regards

Norman

Sanchez1

good post, and so true. I think even the property speculation could have been ok had it been regulated somewhat, and that would have also kept supply/demand and prices in check through steady growth of quality buildings in limited chosen areas. As you say, the current mess  was bound to happen.

normansands

not streaking eh', well that's a relief. Sounds like you eat well. Can't beat the freerange stuff. I got sun tanned while long distance running in shorts today, how about that!  Still icy underfoot though.

Sanchez1,

Looking at it in a less logical way, I suppose you could compare different countries economies to cars...

Germany and France are old Volvo's... robust but can still break down if you’re not careful.

Britain is an old British Leyland... just about still going, but could stall at any point and without notice!

Greece ... ah! Greece is an old Lancia.... Full of holes, rusting to bits and just about to go into the crusher... unless France can find the duct tape!!!

Spain... well Spain is an old Ford ...  which is being towed the long way to the garage!

I do agree with you about how bad Spain has been hit by recession, but it hasn’t got such a long way to go as some people might think!

Later on I will claify my stance a little... but right now I need to chill out with a glass of Alhambra!

This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 07/03/2010.

Is living in Spain really that bad now?

Well I hope that it remains a viable alternative to retirement in UK.

We will be completing this month on a Finca in a traditional white spanish village after losing around 100K on an illegal non build property.

We have made this decision based on our income with a base rate of parity with the euro so hopefully this will see us through our remaining years.

Throughout the years of court case after court case (still ongoing) we have continued to visit on a regular basis and still love thecountry and the Spanish people along with the way of life and the diet.

We have both been employed in stressful jobs and look forward to the slow pace in Spain.

We will continue to campaign for justice for all those wronged by the system.

However it does not and will not dominate my life, I have been wronged, cheated and robbed but have come to terms with my loss.

I appreciate that I am lucky enough to have the funds to continue the dream and look forward to making our move.

The answer in my case has to be no.

Hola

I would not say Spain is that bad to live in now, no. I have lived here for 12 years this year and yes I have noticed change but not all being bad.

We moved from the coast to the country 2 years ago and for no other reason than I wanted a garden and to grow veg along with some peace and quiet - getting older now you know hehe

We had stopped going out every night so the quieter life was a better option for us.

I see Police and Guardia a lot these days and I still feel safe when wandering around at night, in fact I don´t even think about the bad, the credit crunch has sorted the "wheat from the chaff" and I know many people who are leaving, for various reasons and I am sure some are moving for the dole money they would get in the UK! LOL

Finding work has become very hard for people here, especially if they are not skilled or do not speak the language, this does not mean to say there is no work, the pay seems to have lowered in some industries. I do not think the UK has faired much better, however. I know plenty of people out of work in the UK also. It is my understanding, however, that Spain has been one of the worst hit countries where un-employmeny is concerned (within Europe)?

We had considered leaving Spain but not to go back to the UK, to America. For no other reaosn than a change, I still enjoy my life in Spain and the longer I live here, the more friends I make, which makes living here all the more better :)

I am confident it will level out but until such time we all have to hold on, the recent rains have not made the vote for Spain in positive numbers, many are seeing landslides, losing sections of their houses, roofs leaking, terraces disappearing down the hill - you name it! This has made the decision for some to leave, I must admit, I will never buy a Spanish property again, the workmanship is just not up to standard in my opinion.

If there is to be another house purchase in Spain it will be built by us from scratch so we can have damp proofing and insulation etc, etc.

Majority of the World is suffering right now but I do think the UK has gone even more downhill than here, at least Spain have some of their priorities straight! But I don´t think I want the politics discussion it just depresses me hehe

I hope Ibiza has some sun-shine - send some over will you ;)

Simone

Hi Sanchez

Shame about your Jumilla red, but just be glad that you hadn´t bought a more expensive Gran Reserva!  It must be something about men and red wine - John managed to drop his bag in a local supermarket last week, breaking a bottle of red wine in the process!  The staff were really good, didn´t moan about the mess they had to clear up, and told him to get another bottle (which they didn´t charge him for). 

Vilprano

Good to see such a positive attitude after a bad experience buying in Spain: whereabouts is your finca?  We retired here almost two years ago and have always worked on the basis of parity (if it´s better than that I can justify buying new clothes!) so just hope that it doesn´t go below that.

Simone

We are fortunate that we don´t need to work as we have both retired, though the exchange rate at the moment doesn´t do us any favours.  Having moved from London we still think prices here are a lot cheaper and we can afford to meet friends for a coffee or a meal out on a frequent basis, which wouldn´t be the case if we had stayed in London.  The pace of life is a plus (no more commuting every day on the tube!), and also the friendliness of our Spanish neighbours.  The weather?  Hmm.  We have been luckier than many people but this winter has been worse than last year - however it always seems to be at least a couple of degrees warmer than the UK so we can´t complain.

Sue

Hi Sue,

the finca is in almeria province 30 mins from coast and airport.

Hi Vilprano

Sounds lovely, just the place to chill out!  We looked at Almeria and were very tempted, apart from the fact that we don´t drive (living in London we didn´t need to) so needed somewhere accessible by public transport.

Sue

Dear All,

cash rich Londoners have a surplus wherever they go..................

"We are fortunate that we don´t need to work as we have both retired, though the exchange rate at the moment doesn´t do us any favours.  Having moved from London we still think prices here are a lot cheaper and we can afford to meet friends for a coffee or a meal out on a frequent basis, which wouldn´t be the case if we had stayed in London."

but unless invested like Techno, the surplus can fritter away.

if Germany and France can hold the EU and the euro together, then the bankrupt £ will suffer and parity will not be held, so you need euro income, again like Techno.

this March family farmers can manage a March holiday in Tenerife, but what of next year????

 Given  Britain's problems and no obvious solution a move to Spain is a risky proposition..........

"I am confident it will level out but until such time we all have to hold on, the recent rains have not made the vote for Spain in positive numbers, many are seeing landslides, losing sections of their houses, roofs leaking, terraces disappearing down the hill - you name it! This has made the decision for some to leave, I must admit, I will never buy a Spanish property again, the workmanship is just not up to standard in my opinion.

If there is to be another house purchase in Spain it will be built by us from scratch so we can have damp proofing and insulation etc, etc."

Pitby's urbanisation had the problems before it was even finished so extreme care is needed.

Our supposed holiday home was bad with no telephones required between close neighbours.

But there you go it is the relaxed attitude that is the attraction, until you realise it applies to all rules and regulations without limit.

So perhaps renting or a "finca" is the answer.

I understand a finca is a small pile of stones in the countryside, ready to be converted into a luxury country home.

Hopefully the locals stay friendly and you don't offend the "integrate or leave" army.

It does not sound that easy.

Good luck.

Regards

Norman

Norman, if nothing else you keep us all entertained with your banter.....have you never thought of  taking up a role as script writer for a comedy series (or should that read tragedy given the dramas that are unfolding before our eyes)? Apologies to those who feel this is detracting from an informative thread but I just couldn't resist I'm afraid!

Norman

You are making assumptions, and those assumptions in this case are incorrect.  We aren´t cash rich - especially since we have potentially lost our savings when trying to buy off-plan.  (If you are the slightest bit interested in my story you can buy my book "Retiring the Olé Way", which may give me enough in royalties to buy a coffee next time we are out!)  We count ourselves amongst the lucky ones though as we have managed to buy an apartment in town so at least have a roof over our heads, and for the moment we are coping as the cost of living here is cheaper than in London.  If things get worse, we will have to cut down a lot and hope that we can still pay our bills and afford to eat - we don´t have any money to invest.  However we have our health, our families, good friends, and as I said there are people a lot worse off so we count our blessings.  We don´t believe in boring people with our woes, so I still hope to make positive posts whatever happens.

Regards to all.

Sue

That is being positive Suemac. The situation in Spain is very bad and apparently is going to become worse in the next few years. In our case we will have to move somewhere else in Spain or even consider going back to the UK. In the meantime I want to enjoy my present life on the coast as the future is uncertain and I don't want to worry much about it, I just want to live and enjoy my present.

 Dear Suemac,

I try to give only the facts as I know them, but must confess that I was a ripe old age before I learned that Spanish lawyers are in the main crooks, even the English solicitors working for them are equally dishonest.

That being the painful case then it follows that all the higher echelons are likewise tainted.

It is of course this, and this alone that has allowed the thieves to flourish.

But one thing I learnt a long time ago, was that when making decisions, it is essential to treat enthusiasts with extreme caution, especially those that write books, so no I shan't be buying your book.

However I should love to buy you a coffee or whatever, should we ever meet.

I myself, some thirty years ago was a "cash rich Londoner" when moving to cheap and humble Herne Bay.

So it is no assumption, I know all about it.

There is an atom of comfort, perhaps in not being the only one affected, but not much. The real comfort to me is that I am not struggling to pay the mortgage required had I completed.

Hopefully you have not mortgaged yourself to cling on to your dream and "look on the bright side".

If you have then I am afraid you will not find any brightness for a very long time.

Just enjoy things while you can.

Best of luck.

Norman

Dear Sue

Take no notice of N.

Hi Norman

Again you are making assumptions. 

In my book I talk about our experiences buying off-plan, the fact that we didn´t have a bank guarantee and nobody (neither our estate agents, nor our lawyer, not even the developer!) mentioned bank guarantees until it was too late.  I told my story in the hope that other people wouldn´t make the same mistakes, and included case studies of other expats including people who, like us, were buying at Santa Ana del Monte.  Yes, we are now enjoying our new life in Spain, but we have found out the hard way that buying property in Spain is not like buying property in the UK.  As Morerosado says, I have learnt to count my blessings, and I learnt that lesson from my mother who faced lots of difficulties in her life but always kept a positive attitude and never complained.

You may have been a cash rich Londoner, in which case you were lucky.  I know lots of Londoners who aren´t so fortunate but manage to get by because at least they have jobs.  No doubt there are many cash poor Londoners without jobs who still count their blessings.

As Nati says, why not enjoy the present as nobody knows what tomorrow may bring?  Far better, in my humble opinion, than being miserable today and finding out that tomorrow is even worse!

Sue

PS I think you owe me a copa de "whatever" rather than a coffee!

suemac

we also were told a pack of lies about the BG, I think many were amongst many other details!!.  I agree though you do have to count your blessings. Like Norman, had I completed, I would now be struggling to pay a mortgage on a property not worth much and still with all sorts of ongoing pool/landscape community payment issues, falling price, hassle etc. The irony is, I would now have been worse off financially on paper, if things had gone ''right'' at the time. So what with the misery many are now facing in Spain, and despite the years of stress (and short of a small miracle the loss of my life savings) we have had through being cheated, I am starting to feel lucky!  I have a modest but good family life in the UK, and I have good health and good friends, and can choose to holiday somewhere different every year. Can I ask for more than that?. Compared to some I have so much, and certainly appreciate the UK far more now than ever, so certainly make the best of things these days.

I love the saying  ''Live each day like it's your last, because one day it will be !!.''

I wonder if the reason why some people have not enjoyed their Spain 'experience' is that their previous contact with the country was limited to annual package-type holidays in the sun with everything provided?  The challenge of adapting to new circumstances wherever you are can be daunting for people for whom for whatever reason 'abroad' is a place infrequently visited and for holidays only.

Younger people are much more used to travel, especially the more adventurous 'off-the-beaten-track' type and are much more likely to adapt to different cultures, ways of life and even different languages.  Older people are more likely to find some aspects of their new life difficult and adjustment will accordingly be less rapid and more traumatic. They are more disposed to making comparisons between the UK life they were used to and their life in Spain and often cling to the familiar 'devil you know' as better, although they probably moaned about the UK and its perceived shortcomings when living there!

Of course this is not true of all older immigrants to Spain but I believe it to apply to a sizeable minority.  Neither is it possible for everyone to have travelled widely or had experience of living in other countries before making the final move to the Costas. But it does help!

My partner and I have between us lived or spent considerable periods of time in six countries in Europe and North America and I feel that our experiences have given us a reasonably balanced view of living outside the UK and a recognition that there is no such place as paradise anywhere on the surface of this earth and that life, as other posters have stated, is what you make of it.

yes, that sounds about right. Some are born moaners I think, who just expect a slice of England in Spain, and have little concept of pro's and con's of life elsewhere. Some would probably find it hard to adapt to a new county that alone country!!. The reasons some I've spoken to who haven't enjoyed the experience though is more to do with what's  wrong with, service, legal and justice issues, rather than adapting problems, also worries about future security seem quite common.

 Dear Sue,

I have put your drink of whatever it is in the memory bank and look forward to paying up one day.

the term "cash rich Londoner" of course applies to those selling property in London and buying in a cheaper area.

it could easily apply to other capital cities.

it has no bearing on one's personal wealth or otherwise.

and of course it has nothing to do with luck, it is just one's circumstances.

Can I not be angry about injustice without being accused of misery that I do not feel.??????????

now that really is an assumption and a very common one amongst the enthusiastic spinners.

possibly even one can be happy about some things and unhappy about others.

those that find that a difficult concept I suppose should be pitied.

Regards

Norman