Is living in Spain really that bad now???

 Wow, that is the way to reignite the debate.  You have obviously experienced living in Spain and want to return to the UK, but this will just go around in circles again I think!!   When you are cold and wet and miserable in England, after a year, or even two years of poor weather, the warmer climate does actually compensate for quite a bit.

Injustice - none of that in the UK then?  I am in  a long term battle with the national health, and usually have one or two other battles going on, the latest over bin collections (or lack of them).

Corruption ?  Developers?   What about the thousands of UK investors sucked into property get rich quick schemes here in the UK, buying into overpriced miniscule apartments in overstocked city centres?  No compensation for those who tried to find an alternative to a failing pension system.   Not to get me started on the corruption of some of our town halls.  

Services?  I pay £3000 each year in council tax and can't get bins collected or roads gritted.  

Have you heard the latest from the RSPCA and the other animal charities overrun with the Christmas presents they are having to look after?

I can go on, but I am sure others will.  I actually still like England, in spite of awful weather, increasing overcrowding and congested roads, but I would like it a lot less if I could not spend quite a lot of time in Spain.  I sincerely hope you get what you are looking for, but if you are expecting to get away from people who have devious scams to obtain benefits, I think you will be disappointed.  You are moving back to the country which invented the scams and allowed them to develop with a cradle to grave the world owes me a living attitude which will destroy England.

Dear All,

I have been asking for the truth for a very long time and been critical of Techno and Justin for not supplying it.

I am of course sick of the sillies with their sun-blinded nonsense posts and especially sick of the pretend sillies with their financial axes to grind.

Well now we have the truth in a single post.

My vote goes to Poppyseed for prime minister and campasol for deputy.

Long live the truth.

regards

Norman

Well Norman couldn't do any worse a  job could I ???!!!  I nominate you my campaign manager...... :)

Regards, Poppyseed

No, Norman, you do not "have the truth in a single post".  You have an opinion - full stop!

Because you can't possibly judge what is the truth, as you have - well, now let's start here - no experience of living here, no knowledge of living here, no experience of actually owning a property here as you (if your posts are accurate) chose not to complete on your purchase here and, although you have been asked many times what you have chosen to do about it, it seems you have never come up with a clear response.

How many people do you think, worldwide, have been let down by their buying experience - especially in the recent economic crisis?  Camposol, you obviously aren't too impressed with living in Spain (is it the only country you have ever lived in outside the UK?), but as Brian as indicated, what did  you expect different from many other countries in the world??

Living in any country as an expat is, OBVIOUSLY, a big move - and I know as I've lived as an expat for nearly thirty years.  But some people, who have been let down miserably by certain procedures in Spain, think it is solely applicable to Spain and there is no other country on this planet that it worse!  Well, believe me there are a few!  Check out what people who have invested in Dubai are experiencing now.  Also those who didn't check out the laws in Bulgaria - what are they going through?  And a few more!!

As to those who think they can post about LIVING in a country when they've never done so - DO IT and then post!!  Because, otherwise, your post is baseless!

Edited to say that this does not mean that I do not stand behind those involved in the awful demolition notices/actions  -  this is an action that has to be supported.

Norman...No disrespect but why do you always seem to be rubbing someone up the wrong way?  I am aware that things can come across different on screen than they would face to face but you seem to have a clever knack of getting peoples backs up and when they retaliate you claim you were only being supportive and making a point? You have done it to me and I have seen you do it to countless others. I am not here to argue with anyone, I thought this forum was about support? You always seem to have some element of nastiness around you like you are only here to cause trouble? I am sorry if this seems harsh but you made me feel very judged and like I had to defend myself on my last thread and I am now viewing you doing it again to someone else. How about some nice, supportive words for people??

Pitby- with respect although it is true to say that there are equal if not worse situations elsewhere in the world, it does a disservice to those who are fighting for change to suggest that those let down by their buying experience think it solely applicable to Spain. Not so. The point to stress here is that in order to achieve change it's important to remain  focused on what's actually happening in Spain and not be distracted by comparisons to other countries.

EPM

this is intersting to me. As someone who has never lived in Spain, but had always loved the country from what experience I gained from touring holidays, and much reading up/homework, it's always good to read opinions from those on the ground.

camposol and pitby's views couldn't be further apart. I've always suspected that pitby's and technoape's views are on the over positive side, and somewhat in denial of some ugly truths, and camposol's view is much closer to what I feel many ex-pats must be feeling now, and why I wouldn't dream of investing in Spain without changes to corruption/regulation/justice etc. Obviously my feeling is based partly on my dreadful experience of the system, as mentioned by camposol, but also from all the info' and opinions (good and bad) on several websites.

For those of us so badly cheated, we are bound to have a negative view of our 'Spanish experience' , but I don't think that means we are always blinded to the positive aspects that people like pitby and Technoape feel still make Spain a great place to live for many people. Obviously many are still happy with their lot, and we do come over as bitter and twisted if we just try and deny that fact. 

My gut feeling is that the current situation must change if Spain is to have any hope of recovery, but that change won't happen while people are saying ''Spain is fine the way it is''.   It's clear to me that it certainly isn't, and wont be until those in positions of power start to accept what needs to be done. Those of us who have fought dreadful injustice for years are bound to be saying ''why is anyone surprised at the current situation?''  so do no doubt come over as 1 sided to those happy with their lot.

I for one, will be more than happy to celebrate Spain's property market recovery, but while it's doing wrong by so many, then the feeling is bound to be reflected  in many posts.  I'm all for being positive, but we have  to throw out the rotton eggs first!!  We are all well aware of the UK's problems that you are coming back to, but camposols list of reasons for returning certainly did confirm much of what I suspected.

I agree, we really should try and be supportive of everyone's situation however content or angry we feel?

Ads, with respect.  I think Pitby was just trying to make the point that you cannot comment on living in Spain until you have actually done so, and although there are bad things happening in Spain as listed earlier,  Spain is not unique in that respect.  John and I have had some bad experiences here, such as the likelihood of losing 38,000 euros (which was our deposit on a property we were buying at Residencial Santa Ana del Monte) now that the developer is in voluntary administration and we don´t have a bank guarantee.  We also had some of our belongings stolen from our trastero where we are now living. 

However we have also had some good experiences here which in our opinion outweigh the negatives.  We have made some very good friends, including both local Spanish people and expats living in the area.  Our neighbours are very friendly - I speak to more of them than I ever did in London - and were very helpful and sympathetic when we had the robbery, offering to drive us to the Guardia Civil etc. We are now both retired and our money goes a lot further than it would have done if we were back in the UK.  There are lots of things to do, such as fiestas, concerts in the local theatre, exhibitions etc and they are either free or very cheap.  So, in our opinion, having lived here now for over 18 months, living in Spain is pretty good and we have no regrets.

Of course our hearts go out to people like the Priors and others who may lose their homes (including Spanish owners), and we shouldn´t ignore this, but that is only part of the story.  Let´s try and put it all into perspective and keep a balanced view of life in Spain.

Sue

Suemac, it's good to hear of your positive experiences outweighing the negative experiences, and I'm genuinely happy for you in that regard, and I do take on board the necessity to have lived in Spain in order to make realistic observations on this topic. But the point I was trying to make was that in order to effect change (essential if situations like the Priors is to be eradicated) it takes a single minded approach, and it's essential that both those who have good and bad experiences in Spain stand together in the fight for basic human rights which appear to be being denied to many EU citizens in Spain right now.

Unfortunately passive compassion appears to be getting nowhere in the fight for justice and I was just frustrated by the comparisons to other countries, which I was fearful might detract from the need to focus on some very disturbing practices relating to warring factions between local, regional and government authorities in Spain right now.

Apologies if this is getting off-track from the thread.

Dear Vicci,

sorry if my pressing you for actual information led you to think that I was in any way judging you. Not so.

But since you press me, I was reluctant to judge you, but did offer you such help as an old pensioner can offer if you were coming to any where close to this area. That offer of course still stands. Perhaps even with your new building start I might have some technical help available.

But back to judgement, the reason I stopped posting on your thread is because I was not sure of my "assistance" knowledge and your actual intentions.

Clearly if you are returning to well paid employment there is little assistance available, but if your housing costs are high then housing benefit is available plus of course in either case the health service.

However in one post you referred to discussion with the housing authorities and that is where I withdrew since that to me sounds like "emergency housing" which can be very bad and outside my experience.

Nevertheless I wish you luck and every good fortune.

Though old and perhaps even irritable we do have children and grandchilren so have some understanding of the problems.

I wont discuss Spain since Pitby doesn't allow me, she wont even let me discuss subsidence and landslip (my expertise) because I do not live nearby. In any event she is certain that too much truth is bad for business and seeks to stifle it whereever she can.

Best Regards

Norman

ads

yes, a very valid point. Surely we must  keep focus on the so serious issues of corruption and human rights, that  has virtually destroyed Spain's property industry, not what annoys people about the UK.

Normansands, you honestly leave me speechless - probably much to your joy!!  I give up!!

No don't give up Pitby.....we need to review things from all perspectives (relating to Spain that is)!

To all

This thread seems to come down to the same few people with oppossing veiws and how to affect change in Spain, which IS of course needed.

When i saw this thread appear i got the feeling it was to question the more mundane differences/changes in peoples livlihoods in Spain. This is something some people like to do "get it off their chest'' Talk about what we could do for our money and what we can't do now,comparing like for like with the UK and such stuff

Of course the property situation/ corruption is indeed the subject that holds the most gravitas and ALL peoples opinions are welcomed and indeed needed. And of course we should never waiver trying to change this as a priority. Indeed having property near the affected areas we have been on both marches, and visited the Prior's, and hope these actions will go towards affecting change. Not all can do this but by petitions and the like they to can do their bit. And we must NEVER stop

What seems to happen here is many threads are moved to the property/corruption theme and then nobody seems to post except the same half a dozen

Perhaps some people like the less challenging threads and should have that oppertunity???

We all got involved with Spain for various reasons and all take what we want from it, of course some have had bad financial problem with property ( i often wonder what the percentages are ) and we must offer them continued support, but also we must let others have their say.

You will notice that I haven't actually commented  about "living in Spain" as I've only been here for a few months so don't feel I can give a qualified view.  Give me a little longer and maybe I will!!

But I chose to live here, as I chose to live in Dubai and chose to live in Singapore.  Why the hell shouldn't I be positive, Goodstitch?  This is my and my family's life involved.  I'm not here on a long holiday!!  Why on earth is anybody who is just getting on with their life "in denial"???  There are some people on here who feel that because others are positive about their lives, they're "hyping up Spain".  Get real - I'm not playing at living here, I'm living here!!

If we ever decide that this is not the place we want to live we shall move again, circumstances permitting!!  There are obviously loads of negative things about Spain - as there are about ANY country you may choose to live in!!

And, yet again, this does not mean that I don't give a damn about the predicaments others find themselves in due to the corrupt goings on here or in any other place - so please don't suggest otherwise.  But there are many other threads about that very subject already in existence!

This thread was about living in Spain!!

For many people living in Spain or Dubai or anywhere else is their dream come true. 

For many this is their nightmare and they can't wait to get home.

For others they have never had the opportunity to experience it and wait in England for many years to either get their property or their money back.

I agree with many of the points made here, but feel that many people look at certain threads and do not join in as they just go round and round in circles and a few people highjack them with their opinions, which they say over and over again in various ways.

On my site it is difficult even to read any of the threads now without feeling really disheartened as many of the residents are settled and happy and regularly report on golf tournaments, curry nights, New Year's Eve parties and now bingo nights.  Which is great for them and I am sure after their long wait to get their properties they do not want to hear how the other half are so disheartend and just want to scream out 'When will it happen'

For many people living in Spain or Dubai or anywhere else, it  is their dream come true.

For many this is their nightmare and they can't wait to get home.

For many others of us we have never had the opportunity to experience it and wait in England for many years to either get our property or our money back.

I agree with many of the points made below, but feel that many people look at certain threads and do not join in as they just go round and round in circles and a few people highjack them with their strong opinions, which they say over and over again in various ways.

On my community forum it is difficult even to read any of the threads now without feeling really disheartened, upset and often depressed, as many of the residents are settled and happy and regularly report on golf tournaments, curry nights, New Year's Eve parties and now bingo nights. Which is great for them and I am sure after their long wait to get their properties they deserve it, but they do not want to hear how the other half of the estate are so disheartend: have no information on their homes, with many waiting for the habitation certificates that are 3 years overdue and others waiting for the justice system to get their deposits back.

I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread that the thousands of people still waiting for Spanish Justice can post updates as soon as anything happens.  A positive thread that people don't post their problems on every other reply, but let others who are experiencing problems just as bad, listen to the progress of others that will give them hope for the future.  I would like to see this thread kept going with many replies and not keep being reinvented by the same few under various headings.

Let's call it 'Justice update', anybody interested ??????

Pitby

I speak as I find. Of course you have a right to be positive, or negative for that matter!  I just wish you would accept both views without always taking offence!  

I really do give up!!

....yes me to!. Do want a headbanging contest?