SARCO

Hi All again

Yesterday I posted a short snip of advice and facts i had received .  It provoked some intelectual response which was informative and usefull to build on.  It seems to have opened up a line of discussion that Tony has been quick to close off.

It was taken up by Tony as a way of reminding me (us), that facts and legal representation are just an aside to this problem we have.  SARC have had this cracked all along,  All we have to do is wait for the next update, the next release of information from the horses mouth will show everyone, that he was right all along........salvation is just around the corner......the very next statement from the builder will make it all better,    I will get my house!!!!!

Sorry old lad....its not going to happen, it wasnt going to happen 12 months ago when i got fed up of telling you, and its not going to happen now.   You need an exit strategy that will get you a few bob back.......because you are not going to get anything if you carry on trusting the people who put you in this position in the first place.

Tony it is very simple your sheer arrogance, denial of the true facts and dismissive attitude towards anyone else's point of view especially those who post in a knowledgeable professional  legal capacity is just plain  rude  Simples !!!!!!

Always remember Tony "the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour "  This rule is solid and applies to all including  your friends at SJ. Simples !!!!!!

PS Tony I think you will find the word is "retract  " perhaps you should get the same person who is writing the reports to write your posts for you .The writing in the reports (writing not content ) is very much improved shame the same can not be said about your posts . MM  
 

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 11/01/2010.

Dear MM ,

             I simply asked a question a question of Maria if this was what you were taking about via reading here comments.  You seem to think that by saying comments about other peoples attitudes and saying they are rude, is enough to stop them asking for clarification on what others say or  comment this is how discussion work some one says something then another may either agree or ask for clarification of that point or disagree and put forward their opposite point of view it has nothing to do with stiffeling a forum but to stimulate its thought process. As you and Briando seem to think we have ulteria motives. all i can say if you read our position statement on the sarc home page you will see what we are about all we want is to try and get the best conclusion to this for all our members and others. i dont actually care if you want your house or your money back what i do care about is that we both get what we want thats all so i leave you with this final thought.

i have always worked for both camps but i will never support a stand point where one sides success is the other sides downfall that can not be allowed to happen so if i am told by my legal advisor that my best option is for the company to continue to get that outcome them i will fight for that outcome, if they felt that it would be better to get the company wound up then we would fight for that but as it stands there is nothing in the bank for me or anyone else without a BG so the better option is continuation of the project so as to be able to raise the monies needed for those that don't have a BG so they can get what they want.

regards Brianmags

R4 556

This message was last edited by brianmags on 11/01/2010.

Brianmags not sure I understand what you last post is all about it does not make any sense at all therefore I am unable to answer  or comment on such drivel.MM

MM,

               Why not read your posting to me and the comments you made about myself and the posting before that you were responding to it might jog your memorary. Or is it that you you put out so much rubbish that you can not remember what you have previously said on so many strands.

I stand by what I have said from day one. I and others are trying to work towards a positive outcome for all those who put money into SADM that is for those who want their money back and those who which to get their property.

I emphasis this once and for all, this is the "SADM forum" not El Pinet forum or Albatera forum or even the Playa Flamenca forum. it is the SADM forum and it is for those that have purchased there that we set up SARC and are on this forum I do not have any problems with people who are from other developements saying their poins of view but when all is said and done this is for SADM purchasers.

brianmags

R4 556

Yes Brian this forum is for purchasers at SADM and I have as much right as anyone else to post here .And SARC was set up to for purchasers at SADM but who are you trying to help SJ/HdT . Perhaps you should get your facts right before you start  spitting your dummy out of your pram .

Have you read Maria's blog today or was it too much for you to understand ?

I suggest you read my post on the Jan SARC report thread . I suggest you step back and take a look at things as they really are .This is not just  all about what you want Brian  there is sooo much more at stake . Just in case you can't find it here it is again .So think on you silly little man

My post on the other thread for your perusal  Brian

Sorry had to post this again as Tony keeps on trying to hide a truthful ,sensible post with a save SJ/HdT from liquidation ignoring   their track record post  . I go on about the ecological groups campaign because it is true .Ask those on El Pinet .Who's  backing  the Shepherd Tony ?

Tony I agree it is better in this current economic climate that companies are saved and allowed to trade on but not this one and not at any cost .It would be a disservice to honest purchasers , creditors and anyone unfortunate to do business with them  past ,present and future .Would you advise friends or family to trade with or purchase from this company .I wouldn't .Sometimes Tony it is simply  just not all about you and what you want .

" I have sought advice on this from a chartered accountant and he told me that the one thing to avoid is liquidation"  So he's a genius then .

Did you happen to mention the history , track record ,criminal cases pending and  the appalling way they have treated those on other developments .Not to mention the many years old and continuing campaign against this company by  one of the most powerful ecological protection groups in Spain  .No I didn't think so . Good luck Tony you are going to need it .MM

And your answer to this post is Tony ?

Hi All,

I pm'd Maria and had a very nice reply. I asked whether the legal concept that she was suggesting had actually suceeded before. I was informed that no that is not the case this is the first time some one has thought of this. Now although I applaud the approach one does wonder whether the courts would permit such a precident to be set. Furthermore, considering the financial clout and leverage of the banks, they could probably spin out an action for years. At this time I really am not intersted in trying to improve consumer rights within Spain, I am intersted in getting out of this mess as cost effectively and quickly as possible.

As for ecology group. Well they have lost at el Pinet. Lost 2 at SADM and will do so again when the water licence is produced.

So MM, are you a member of the ecology group? Why are you trying to get SADM stopped? Why are you trying to get HdTliquidated?

As for making silly remarks about getting the opinion of a chartered accountant, what world are youin? That is the very profession that deals with financial issues and company insolvencies!

None of it makes any sense if you are a  purchaser and if you do not have a BG.

I will let every one else ponder on that.

I WANT A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR ALL ( AS WE HAVE ALLWAYS SAID)

Tony R17 18

Hey Tony , you are quite the little smarty pants this evening !!!!

Tony's last post and my response in red .

Hi All,

I pm'd Maria and had a very nice reply. I asked whether the legal concept that she was suggesting had actually succeeded before. I was informed that no that is not the case this is the first time some one has thought of this. Now although I applaud the approach one does wonder whether the courts would permit such a precedent to be set.   Watch this space !!!!!!!!  Furthermore, considering the financial clout and leverage of the banks, they could probably spin out an action for years Not that long for me considering that I am now much closer  to a good outcome than you !  and  At this time I really am not interested in trying to improve consumer rights within Spain, Maria's is telling you, that your recourse in Spanish law is under consumer law not that you should champion the Spanish consumer rights debate , but as usual you  miss the point.  You never listen as pig ignorance and self interest  is your forte and to hell with the poor beggars that will  follow in our foot steps.

What a great attitude Tiger at least now we can see where you are coming from and the self preserving  attitude  behind your foolish misguided trust in SJ /HdT .I am interested in getting out of this mess as cost effectively and quickly as possible. and to hell with morals integrity or any one else who may fall foul of this unscrupulous company  .Your true colours are showing through now Tony . I obviously have a much greater respect for what is right and what is wrong than you do .Self  self self ! 

As for ecology group.  I think you will find the correct word is Ecological and No  !!!!  They have not lost and  will never  give up.

No Tony I am not an Eco warrior and never have been . However unlike you I am not all self self self and can see the bigger ecological picture not to mention the destruction of peoples lifesthat  SJ/HdT have left behind .Can't you !!  Well they have lost at el Pinet. Lost 2 at SADM and will do so again when the water licence is produced. Oh really ,and your evidence of this is  is ? as usual this is only deceit  which Almu has conned you into to believing .Almu is only out to secure her own wealth and the  future and  security of her family  !  Does she really  care about mine or yours . Doh ! No !  Not on her agenda !

So MM, are you a member of the ecology group?  No ! Why are you trying to get SADM stopped? I am not  !  but  unlike you I see years of misery for others who will be conned and cheated just  like we have been !   Why are you trying to get HdT  liquidated ?  because after much thought on the matter  I think it is for the best ,remember I have morals and a conscience as to what will happen to others in the future .Unlike you I do not only care for myself  and I quote you .......... "At this time I really am not interested in trying to improve consumer rights within Spain"  " I am interested in getting out of this mess as cost effectively and quickly as possible. and to hang with everything else  hey Tony.  I thought you were in this for the long haul and  for the good of all purchasers no matter what outcome they want  ?

As for making silly remarks about getting the opinion of a chartered accountant, what world are you in? That is the very profession that deals with financial issues and company insolvencies! But you did not give him the whole story .Did you Tony ,if you had ,his opinion would have been very different . Do you think we are all fools .Do you think we are incapable of putting these  very  questions  " warts and all  " to our own chartered accountants   .Your arrogance astounds me !

None of it makes any sense if you are a  purchaser and if you do not have a BG. I have explained many times before , not that it is any of your business,but once again your arrogance astounds me !   I am a purchaser  with a BG and  without . Not by choice  but by circumstance.  Would you also like to know what colour of knickers I wear and what I ate for breakfast  Pleeeeaaaase !

I will let every one else ponder on that.

Perhaps Tony every one should ponder on  your pathetic position  !  As quite frankly your blinkered attitude and fool hardy support of SJ/HdT despite their disgusting  track record  makes me cringe !!

I WANT A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR ALL ( AS WE HAVE ALLWAYS SAID)  Really

Tony R17 18

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 12/01/2010.

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 12/01/2010.

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 12/01/2010.

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 12/01/2010.

Hi MM

I would be interested in knowing how you think those of us without a bank guarantee can get any money back, if SADM doesn't go ahead.  So far Tony has suggested that our best  bet is if the development goes ahead, as then HdT will have money to pay us back.  You may have already explained this, however for a while we didn't have internet access at home, so weren't able to check the forum every day - and I really don´t fancy trawling through old posts to check this out!  I am sure there are many other people in our situation who would welcome any advice.  As pensioners, we don´t have a lot of money to spend on lawyers for what might be a futile task, and no doubt there are other members who are in work and who also don´t have money to spare.

Sue

Hi Sue  no need to trawl  just read Maria,s blog .MM

Hi All,

The next few weeks will enable us all  have  access to the agreement & will be able to clearly see what our choices are. The SARC report will be loaded up this weekend & there will be a further one in 1 -2 weeks time. Also the membership is still growing as more purchasers join us.

There has been a lot of chatter by the normal little group who do not wish for SADM to go ahead and are doing all they can to get HdT liquidated & in doing so throwing those of us without BG's into financial ruin. I have noted that no logical reason has been given for this action, that I can only assume  it is being taken out of spite.

Misunderstandings have been posted many times over the last 2 years and I am not surprised that it is occuring again just before you can all read the document for yourselves. 

 I WANT MY HOUSE AND A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR ALL

Tony R17 18 

This message was last edited by TonyMal on 20/02/2010.

Not spite Tony just good sense and a realistic look at past behaviour of this company .

Not spite Tony just good sense and a realistic look at past behaviour of this company . I think you will find that the group who want to stop this unscrupulous company from conning purchasers past present or future is much more than a "little group " Welcome to the real world Tony the crooks must be stopped before they do more damage to their customers current or future .Have they ever once apologised for or acknowledged the pain and misery they have caused .No

Tony,

Has it never occurred to you that some are already in financial ruin, there are those who purchased two properties, one to live in and one to rent, and took out mortgages against their own property.  The likes of which have been paying interest ever since.  They are way past the financial ruin you mention.  There are others who are ill because of the situation they find themselves.  There are those who were in their early 70s when they first embarked on this venture, where does that leave them.

I sold my house and used the profit for the deposit, I had a business ready to go, and contracts already in place.  However I am fortunate enough to be a bit younger than these poor people and have enough years left to try again.

But one thing I do know is that I will not give someone who has broken so many laws and stolen so much more than just money the benefit of my doubt.  There has not been one thing that you or they have said that would make me think any different.  All I know is that there have been so many false dawns and false hopes that the last thing I would want to do is invest in anything these people have to offer.

I often suspected that your plan was to pretend you wanted the company to survive, knowing that if they did you could sue them for your money, and herein lies the rub, for if they do survive, this is what most creditors will do.  And with this knowledge they know more than anyone is they cannot afford to survive.

Thank you for that Redman there are many like Tony who have no idea the impact this has had on some especially those who are  not short of money but are short of time .

These in my experience are  the people who have been most  affected by SJ/HdT and these are the people who have become my friends .Lets face it the time scale that the SARC agreement  will give is of no use to them  5-7 years !!!!!! They have been robbed .robbed .robbed ,unlike you or I Tony they can not wait

.What are SJ/HdT/SARC  doing about them or do you only care about yourselves and your own plight  ......... Tony you have dragged this out for people who did not have the time to spare .You may not have had the cash to fight in court  but you had the time .Many elderly had the cash but not the time .You and SARC have done them a great  disservice .Your persistence towards what was good for your own situation ignoring anyone else and their situation , is quite sickening .What about a good outcome for all . Tony  does all just mean you and SJ/HdT or does it really mean all ? 

Redman - Right on the button!

How refreshing Redman. Youve managed to put into words most of our thoughts over the years. 

We may be sorted now on Playa and have had our keys last week,  but will never forget or forgive what they put us through.  Hope to the big JC for a result in favour of the client/victim.. Everyone single one.  They should be locked up. No question.  Almundena in a thief. 

martin & sal

Hi All

Just back from Spain nothing much seems to have taken place at El Pinet, I never bother going to Jumilla these days

This article appeared in the CBN thought may amuse you

http://cargic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/no-way-jose.pdf

copy and paste if you are unable to click

Regards

Clive

 There are a whole trail of people whose lives have been ruined by this scandal. I have heard countless tales of illness, stress, financial ruin (ie people losing everything because of san jose) And having made many of these people good friends; these are not rich cruel or stupid people. They are nice hardworking decent family people looking for a better life.

I am not a religious person but if there is some way that people are judged at the end of their days then I hope each owners pain and suffering gets considered. I was lucky enough to get my money back a year ago. I am financially secure (always have been) and whilst I was waiting/ challenging the system my normal existence was never compromised. Despite this I could never sleep, felt sick constantly and angry to the point of wanting to scream everyday. It made me ill and only nw, when I look back, do I really realise the impact it had on me.

I can only imagine what it has meant for those people who have invested more than they could afford to lose. Those people who have sold their properties to move abroad, those that have re-mortgaged their current homes to pay for their holiday home, those who have suffered serious or terminal illness without any means to extract resource (at least if they were build there would have been to option to sell or rent)

These people are a disgrace. It is not spite that makes me want them not to operate It is protectionism for other hardworking decent people who may be conned in the future. 

..as for Tony... I see him as marginally better than san jose..but only marginally. He is just another selfish idiot with some scheme to make something from other peoples misery and pain.

If I had the choice of wealth..I would rather be able to sleep at night.

All the best everyonexxxx