SARCO

Hmmm its been a thought for a while JA. 

 What I would dearly love is for ALL or SOME  the members of SARC who feel they have a contribution to make  and could argue with realism   all the reasons we should believe what they are being told by Almu and the Company via SARC/and its Reports.  This is an opportunity to others Tony, not a dig at anyone.

I am not  the most intelligent person in the world, Ive made a mistake in a poor business deal, I blame no one, not even me anymore.  I DO NOT believe that people who have become members of SARC in ever increasing numbers as its claimed,  do not post on here because they may be ridiculed.  That in itself if ridiculous.  Affraid of what?  Its making out that people who are with SARC are 'frightened'? Surely not.    If indeed there are so many people, I am absolutely sure they would post with persuasive realistic arguments and points of view.  They cannot possibly be ALL affraid to post?    How many absolutely, categorically want their house come what may and how ever long it takes??  We each have a different personal circumstance that no one  with any integrity would dream of mocking.  But does anyone have a reason to stay with this Project just beccause??  There is no shame or mockery to any single reply and I am sure that goes for most of us that post.  Im actually interested to hear from SARC members that have a sensible argument to stay with it???

Lets have a Sunday night debate again!  For and Against and WHY

Sal

Sal

Thats a really inteligent and honest challenge.  I completely agree with what your asking

If there are any people out there....members of SARC, who can give a valid argument or opinion for concentrating solely on buying the house, come on guys, lets have a real reason from you because Tony is just not making any sense at all.

 I think that this is the issue.

Tony assumes that people who are members solely want their house. The fact is that anyone who has signed up to SARC probably only wanted to keep their options open and be included in any information that was being circulated.

I have never seen that many people say they want their house..john and sue, mark and vicky, adam. All really nice people and all realistic. They would like their homes but want their money back if they cant have them. They all think it would be better if Santa Ana got re-financed - again cant blame them for that we would all agree that this would have been the best outcome but most know this is a unrealistic hope. Infact many of the "sarc" members have good solid legal advice and lawsuits pending. Therefore I think people who are SARC members do not share necessarily the views of Tony

Sally I was really glad to read your comments about Tony's sympathy towards Almun and his extremely useful early resolution bid. It infuriated the heck out of me too. I got some comments about female solidarity etc.

I think you made an excellent point. They have taken money away from MY babies for THEIR future

I would be very glad to share sensible views with anyone who can help me understand how Tony thinks the way that he does. I am really at a loss to comprehend. And I mean that sincerely

hi all

i feel the thing here is that many people do not have a bank guarentee and therefore are unable to go down that route.I bet if SARC did a count up of how many of its members have BG's then the answer would be not very many.

Anyone who has a BG and still goes down the route of IWMH must be very foolish indeed, if i had one i would be taking every step towards recalling my money VIA THE BANK,   as at least if they refuse to pay up , it would make a total mockery of the Spanish banking system and i feel that would not be allowed especially in the current economic climate , where banks actions are being closely watched and scrutinised.

As i and many others do not have a BG , we need to find ANY possibility of hope within this mess that we will get something back , if that means actually WANTING the refinancing and continuation of the SADM site then i am not ashamed to still be saying I Want MY House.Put it this way , If HdT goes into liquidation then i get nothing, even as a priveledged creditor, if they have no money there is nothing to share out between us all regardless of our position in the long list of creditors and i am not ready to accept that as the outcome to the years of hard work we put in to find the deposit for our place in the sun.

Given a choice IWMMB not the house because we could buy elsewhere now at a fraction of the price we would have paid 2 years ago when we bought at SADM. I do not think that that choice will ever be given but a will always be willing to listen to ANYONE who feels they have a valid point to make that is backed up with FACTS, whether that comes from lawyers, other forum members, the internet and yes even Almu and Sj and HdT, but legally i am covered for every eventuality.

Vic

hi Vic and Joannie

Something i brought up a good couple of months ago about the points you bring forward, its good to open up a route of communication by the way.

If the administration of Herrada came forward with the announcement of they are to be re-financed and trade on.  How would you then view the company opening up their sales counter for new business, and start writing new contracts for existing depositors.  Would you feel uncomfortable if they asked you for more money for a house when the site remains incomplete?  How much trust would you realy have with them.  Also how easy is it for them to attract new business when they have just had the bad press?

Do you then ask questions about where is or was my BG..........i heard they can give the odd air con unit for incentives but the its not incentives that matter in the end...its security, dont you agree?

I havnt heard of bank guarantees being a major part of their re-habilitation yet..............how would you feel to be here in a years time with a host of other people saying wheres my bank guarantee............................i could live with myself but would there be anyone who maybe couldnt? 

Hi All

I suspect that Vic has expressed the views of many people on this forum, and unless you have loadsa money most of us can't really afford to lose our deposits.

However, if we had been looking at SADM for a holiday home, and if we could both drive, we would probably have been willing to wait for our house.  Let's not forget our feelings when we first decided to buy at SADM.  The quality of the houses we looked at impressed us, and for our money we were getting a lot more than if we had decided to buy on the coast.  The surrounding area is beautiful, and the nearby town of Jumilla has loads of bars and restaurants (we are steadily working our way round them all!) as well as several large supermarkets and a variety of shops.  What more could you ask for?

We moved to Jumilla thinking that by the end of the year we would be living in SADM, and we can't afford to keep renting when we expected to be moving into our new home next month, so we have been forced to look elsewhere.  We have been shown more houses, both on the coast and inland, and have failed to find anything as good for the price.  Having said that, we are looking at buying another property in Jumilla, as we enjoy living there. 

If you walk around the town you will find plenty of building going on, albeit on a different scale, and new shops are opening all the time, so the town seems to be prospering and I think SADM will add to that prosperity, which is why I hope it can still go ahead (apart from improving our chances of getting our money back!).  If it does, I am sure that I will feel some regret that I won't be living there, although living in Jumilla is a more sensible option for two pensioners without a car (even though we can walk to SADM in about 50 minutes!)

IF SJ/HdT get the money and the licences to build, I can see that those who can afford it would still be interested in buying there, for the reasons above.  In the current economic climate, and with the horror stories in the press, I suspect that it will appeal more to those who can afford to take a  gamble and look for long-term gain.  The inland market is still a good bet, and if I had a bank guarantee (hmm!) and plenty of money (if only!), I would be prepared to wait for SADM to be finished.

Sue

me again

I'm amazed to say the least......................i dont post anything other than 'tosh' on here nowerdays because i feel the forum doesnt warrant it but surely you can all see...or cant you !

San jose bought land to the value of x-€M to build 15,000 homes at 2005 price expectancy. Sue, I have a lot of respect for yourself and John and similarly we bought for the very reason you did....property was a 1/3rd the price it was on the coast. But when will people realise that the coastal market....the favoured, is in recession and prices going forth are being dropped up to 70% of the asking price. Now please do not tell me that this isnt happening inland also, for a fact, and as a Spanish resident, I know it to be true and why so many of our friends have decides to opt elsewhere for a property at TODAY's market value rather than pay inflated 2005 prices. Even those in residence at El Pinet are reluctant to pay San Jose (if they could) the balance of their property, they can't as they have no Habitation licence anyway. San Jose are NOT going to develop

If you see the sale through, at 2005 contract prices you will be a bigger fool than others on here give justification for. Buy it by all means but then try and sell it, now later or in 10yrs, as i say, like a brand new car off the forecourt....lose 30% at least but i wish u well all the same. We have a number of websites / contacts that are now plaguing us with offers for ne urbs, fincas and property with land / fruit production opportunities at far below the price we paid for our amopola. And with the exchange rate in the creditors favour, of course San Jose are prepared to hang this one out. They have, if it went ahead, for argument sake, say 13,000 prices to sell at 2005 prices (based upon the cost of the land v no profit...vis-a-vee Playa Golf prices). Either they get the go-ahead and continue sell at the inflated price, or they drop it to the ,market expectancy.........and would you or I be happy to think we had to pay our remainder based upon those inflated prices(€200,000 v €140,000), against what you can buy for now....or in the future?

Sorry for the rant again but I personally feel people are blinkered both on the IWMMB and IWMH and should spend more time sorting their own personal problems than venting their anger against other 'wrong-do-ers' who's lives and decisions they have no control over. No one group is correct, our own failures we vent against others because we are not humble enough to accept our own mistakes. I HAVE MADE A  PERSONAL MISTAKE ..there said it but i'm getting on with life.

Yep, I want my money back but for now i have an asset of San Jose's to bargain with............does that make me smarter or better....NO !

darren & michelle

This message was last edited by Darren_Michelle on 11/17/2008.

Hi All

At last a seemingly sensible post. I have a bank guarentee and a spanish property that I'm now living in and although I now have a spanish mortgage(Thanks to San Jose) which I didn't envisage when we moved lock stock and barrel to Spain in April this year, and could afford to wait for the building at Santa Ana del Monte to be complete. Would I want too. The simple answer to this is NO, for the following reasons:

1. I have no trust what so ever in the company San Jose or what ever part of the company  you might care to mention. They have done nothing but mislead clients throughout the time I have been dealing with them. They have managed to bend the spanish banking, legal and property system to suit their own ends.

2. Although I agree with Suemac that Jumilla is a nice little typical rural Spanish town. Would I want to live on Santa Ana del Monte now?  No because I feel that the inferstructure, that I was led to believe would be inplace, ie. golf courses, hotel, shopping complex, bars, restaurants etc will probally take at least 10years to be fully completed if at all. I would be living on a building site for most of the time, something I feel would be most disheartening. Would there be  other people living there permanently? yes some but I think that most of the properties would be empty either un-sold or used as holiday homes/rental. A ghost town in my opinion.

3. The most important reason for me is that having listen too, read,  and been the brunt of some of the characters that have come too the forefront of this and similar forums since the administration process was started, would I want them as friends and neighbours? A DEFINATE NO!

Suemac, you have stated that " for our money we were getting a lot more that if we had decided to buy on the coast" that may have beent true when you and I first looked all them years ago but not true now. The property we have bought here on the coast is twice the size of the property we were buying at Jumilla and for 1000euros less. It is a buyers market now and only the San Jose properties here on the coast are over priced most others are dropping the prices monthly to try and sell.

Would I ever recommend off plan purchase NO, would I ever trust agents like Ambarsun NO, Would I recommend Spain as a place to retire/move to YES YES YES because for all its faults it still beats living in the UK.

Just my humble opinion off course but I'm sure some plonker on this forum will rip it to bits, still thats democracy for you!

  Cheers Dave Butler, used to be R4 plot 333, now happy at San Miguel De Salinas, urb Aldea Del Monte.

I was trying to be a bit more gentle than that Darren  

But now that your straight to the point............

How does anyone cope with getting their result of a house, and then get asked for more money to complete..................and then get how to get a mortgage with immediate negative equity. 

Where do the missing customers come from to complete the building site.

Plus how to cope and pay UK exchange rates and not be sure the development will be in a state to get any rental return on investment.

Almudena's baby will still have nappies.......................will the purchasers on SADM still have knickers?

Well Folks just a thought as Darren has mentioned the creditors would be in pocket

If I could have my money back at today's rate, I would be well in pocket in fact £11,000 all but a few pence AND that is without the 6% interest

And it wouldnt cost San Jose a penny extra either

Finally common sense prevails from some serious post-ers.

San Jose sell the land they bought at 2008 value but against 2004/5 cost - make a loss

San Jose sell properies at 2008 / 9 market valuation (against 2004/5 land costs) - make a loss, and p*ss 1500 purchasers off at same time

I'll tell you now, that land will remain barren until the market picks up again and they can at least re-couperate a figure near what they paid.....unless they are forced to sell. Continuing the build is defacto no-no. Building hyperthetically 300 homes (IWMH) on land purchased for 15,000 properties...........not going to happen land €5M v. property value €2M..............no wonder they are in trouble if that is the case.

I WABAAGTHO (I want a beer and am going to have one) - no work tonight !

Darren

Darren please............cerveza

Hi all.

Especially you buyers! Take notice of Darren and Auntielinda's postings.

4 years ago we would have been lucky to afford a 1 bedroom appartment near the coast which is why we bought at sadm near Jumilla but now we have bought a 3 bedroom house 5 minutes drive from the beach. We are in a reasonably quiet area but if we want the hustle and bustle and a bit of life it is just up the road so to speak.[We did warm to Jumilla and think it is a great place though]

At the moment though the housing market is in a poor state all over the world because of the credit crunch and it is in "Meltdown" in Spain because they have the added problem of "Overbuild" in the last 10 years or so.

I know where Sue and John are coming from when they look at prices in the Costa Blanca News and to a degree the prices sort of look reasonable. sellers KNOW it is very much a buyers market so they along with the estate agents [who want bigger commisions] inflate their property prices to allow for the amount they know they will have to come down.

Although i think Darrens 70% drop from the asking price maybe a bit of wishful thinking [hi Darrren, speak soon] never-the-less  he is pretty much spot on in his evaluation of the situation. If you are looking at buying a property whether or not it is on the coast or inland and they are asking €160,000, you are throwing money away if you pay more than €120,000 or there abouts, so you would need to offer €110,000. or less.

I know it takes a bit of bottle to do it, but as a buyer you are in command. Most sellers are desperate to sell, some more than others but they are all desperate and a big percentage are holiday homes and they have a big mortgage, and cannot suppliment it with rentals. My suggestion is, find 3 properties that you like and are happy to buy either of them and put in 3 silly prices and sit back and wait and dont BUDGE, One of them will bite your hand off.

Before someone tears this apart. This is only MY opinion.

                              Bob.

Bob

Hope you're both well............just re-read what i posted and you are correct, what i meant to put was properties are now 70% of what they would have originally costed...ie 30% below lod market valuation. In fact, it's 40% but lets allow agents commissions of 10%

Apologies to all for the typo...........wise no-one buys a house from me then if i ever get into the market for it....I'd never make any money (unlike some)

Darren

Ok in summary so far:

Given the option of money back to choose where and what to purchase now in the given climate and the fact that it would not be what we were all sold - no one would necessarily choose sadm with their present  Contract in place at the Euro price in its hay day. (despite it being attractive some years ago)

No one would disagree that you guys living in Spain in various areas are more than adequately qualified to quote and offer assessment of the current prices in a buyers market on the coast (or indeed inland to varying degrees).

Can you offer an educated assessment now of what the Companies debts are v l (sadm) land sell (worst scenario) at todays in today's market? Cruicially, could they afford to pay back ALL creditors ordinary or mass even if they sold at a major loss if they were forced to do so?  Didnt SARC say that they needed 50% of present Contract holders to continue for it to be viable? 

Wasnt it originally said in a SARC report  in July that IF they had financing it was going to be 15 months at worst.  Now arent they claiming 20 months... already even for those who would love it go ahead they have changed the  goal post hyperthetically.  At first they were going to offer NEW contracts.. now its the original.. makes sense when you read market values given by good people with absolutely no hidden agenda whatsoever.  Say they did have a deal on the table to keep them building.. what's to stop them given  the original contract, at now inflated prices, doing exactly what you guys say.. not even contemplate building for years until the market picked up.. piece of string time. which is exactly what we had in 2005 in terms of time scales. 

Thank the lord that we all have our Legal route in place.  And thanks so much for the direct, honest information coming through for anyone in any doubts.

WLMMB

Sal

hi all

would seem BG are useless as well ,because SJ  have sold more properties then they have arranged BG to cover, so even if you took legal route it seems you would only get a% of what you paid minus any legal fees. this is what my agent tells me

i have been told on countless times ,if you have a BG you would be ok, so someone was telling porkies. whats the point in having a BG system to protect you if it dont work .only in spain.

has any one else been told what i am being told.

regards

gigcooper,

Your agent is telling you a load of crap. Get yourself a decent lawyer .

gjgcooper No please stop listening to your agent and get proper legal advice .If executed properly your BG could still be effective it may be your best chance to get something back.

Well done to all others in the previous postings the best discussion of the facts we have had in a long time. At least anyone who wants to look at things from a sensible angle now has the facts and can make decisions on logic and not hope. I have been thinking all of this for a long time but the hard truths and facts of the matter are never well received.

I am very interested to hear SARC /Tony's comments on the latest postings on this thread. Then again I don't think he /they really get any of this, therefore the comments will be useless. Thank you all for some really worthwhile posts.JA

thats the problem

don't know who or what to believe anymore , lawyer says one thing ,agent says another.

any advise would be greatly recieved

regards confused