SARCO

Thank you.

I had heard that the amount of spanish purchasers for SADM was more than 45% so I would be grateful if you could add this question to your list for clarification.

Also could you ask if this project would be completed as per the agreement with all promised amentities, shops, hotel, equestrian centre, 2 golf courses etc.

The length of time this has dragged on and the way we have been treated makes it very difficult to sign anything without questions and I have lots.  A big issue also is the way we have been treated throughout the whole time but thats another whole new subject.

Regards Chrissie

Hi Chrissie

You make a good point about ensuring that it is not only the house you want to protect, but also all the facilities that were originally promised.  The house is worth nothing if there are no facilities.

I also slightly disagree about the way HdT / SJ have previously treated us being a whole new subject.  It is very much the subject that HdT /SJ should have been liaising directly with us and our representatives.  SARC are not legal representatives, and do not represent the majority.  A great deal, if not most, of the purchasers at SADM have probably not heard of EOS or do not post.  Whilst it can be helpful to hear things on the grapevine, it is not a professional way to conduct business.  HdT have not contacted me throughout this mess, other than the original notification of their voluntary administration.  They have not kept me up to date with any developments - even those that they may view as positive developments.  They have not acted at all professionally, they have zilch customer care, and have given me the distinct impression of being totally arrogant.  These experiences are obviously going to influence my decision (if we get one).

I work  in a Customer Focussed organisation.  Life happens, things go wrong, people make mistakes - yet the real clincher is how you (as an organisation) respond when things go wrong. That's the real marker of if a company is good or not. I think my opinion is pretty obvious.

Sorry for long rant, but at every opportunity SJ/HdT make my blood boil. 

Hi

I totally agree with you about the customer service and must admit it has been disgraceful.  I have never been contacted by them and feel that it has gone on much too long. This company has completely disappointed me and I have lost faith in the way the spanish justice system works (or not).  This has been a very steep learning curve for me and I am not even convinced that spain is for me anymore. I wish I had never got involved in this mess.  You are right you only see the true colours of customer service when things start to go wrong and this is a prime example of how not to go about it.

I would be very interested if anyone has made their minds up as to which way they will go.  Its just a shame that we have not been able to speak on this forum and be honest without being blown out of the water every 5 minutes. 

I think thats my rant over with now and yes it has and does still make my blood boil too. Do I want a house built by these people mmmm not sure, I would have liked a home that was built with care and good feelings.

Regards Chrissie

Hi Alantracey,

I agree with you and Chrissie that HdT's customer forcus  has been very poor.  However,some purchasers did get together & have allways made it clear that other purchasers can join them and ensured that HdT have communicated with them. We have also shared any information with all on EOS and posted it on our website for all purchaers to be able to see.

 SARC has never claimed to represent all purchasers but has been the only purchaser group that has engaged in the process and been trying to get purchasers out of this mess with a postive outcome. I believe that by forming SARC purchasers have been able to get information, ask questions and put their views forward, which, would not of happened if a purchaser group had not been formed.

The key thing that should bind us all, is the seeking of a positive outcome from this mess and focusing on working together on how to get it.

SARC has a significant number of purchasers as members & membership is still open to all purchasers at no cost.

I have added your questions posted a couple of days ago to the list & we will try to get the answers to the list by the end of next week for all to see.

 Truly wishing you all the best

Tony R17 18

This message was last edited by TonyMal on 28/10/2009.

This message was last edited by TonyMal on 28/10/2009.

Tony

I am not doubting what your intentions are or that you claim to represent all purchasers.  I have no gripe with you or SARC even if our views may differ.  My point is that we should be contacted directly as individual purchasers. For those many who haven't heard of EOS, or have access to other sites,  they are getting even less information.  That is not acceptable. 

I am not a member of SARC, and no offence but have no intention of being.  But what ever you are told, I should be told.  You have no legal authority, so should not be gaining access to any priviledged information.  That is not a sllight on you, it is poor practice on the part of SJ/HdT that this should happen. Almudena should not be drip feeding AN'YONE information that they are not publicly disclosing.  This is what leads to people becoming suspicious of each other and leads to in-fighting.

I feel you are also putting yourself at risk, as you will have little proof that you have been told what you have.  It is one thing to repeat a conversation that you have had as an individual (that's sharing information). But you and Brian have been attending meetings as SARC and have been including your own opinions in your reports.  Whilst they may be marked as opinions, when they are placed on the same document as a report they put a slant on that report.  This could then have legal implications for you, if SJ/HdT do not follow up.  Personally, I wouldn't put any (more) money on SJ/HdT looking out for your interests.

For clarity, I have no issues with any members of this forum whatever their views and what ever they want.  I am not rallying support for voting yes or no (although I don't know what that is yet) I have big issues with SJ/HdT.  Part of signing up to any new deal is about trust.  I can only speak for myself, when I say I don't have any.

Tracey

Hi All,

For once I feel I can contribute again to this forum, without my post being belitled, rubbished or just downright slagged off.

Chrissie, to answer your question I for one have cancelled my contract with San Jose for my Marbella at Santa Ana del Monte. Mainly because it is the only way I can get my deposit back via my bank guarantee. yes I'm one of the lucky few who insisted on a bank guarantee before paying my deposit. If I hadn't got a one I would have still insisted on cancelling. My reasons are that having visited the site many, many times since we moved here two years ago, I feel that I probaly wouldn't have been happy there had it gone ahead. I feel that if the whole complex had been completed, during the non peak holiday periods it would have been like living on a ghost town. I don't think the complex could have ever sustained the hotel, leisure complex, equestrian centre or the two golf courses. I base my opinions on the various golf complexs I have visited in the last two years, all of them and I mean all of them are totally dead, off season, in fact even today which is supposedly peak golf season the courses and amenities at courses such as Campoamor, Las Ramblas, La Torre, El Valle and others are empty. What chance for a complex in the middle of nowhere. Jumilla as a town is fine providing you totally emerse your self in the Spanish culture and language otherwise you would feel very isolated.

As far as the company is concerned, I like many others, did do some research into the company before signing up. Yes they were a large well known and respected company. However alarm bells should have rung in my head when I saw the site. Having been to many many off plan sites and urbinisations in the 5 years prior to purchase, every single one of them had built the infrastructure, ie. the roads street lighting, play areas, green areas even the pedistrian crossings before any properties are even started. I have since found out from many developers in Spain that the first licence granted for any development insists on the infrastructure being completed before the licence to build the properties is granted. Digging a few holes and filling with concrete was in my opiniuon and that of many other developers was just a way of appeasing clients like myself. rose tinted glasses spring to mind! The company and all the agents that promoted the development were and are crooks and liars. If I had sufficent money I would sue them all personally.

Going back to getting my contract cancelled San Jose would not even discuss the matter with me or my solicitors until they realised I was in posession of one of their assets that they are desperate to sell and raise capital on ie. an apartment in La Zenia. then they couldn't agree to cancellation quick enough. remember this is the same company that have cut off the water to these apartments to try and force the people living there to leave. hardly the actions of an honest and caring company. Thats why the statement  that " their customer focus has been very poor" has made me roll about laughing.  its been downright diabolical!!!!

As far as San Jose and HdT communicating with purchasers, why would they refuse to communicate with  our solicitors who represent 1800 purchasers at Santa Ana Del Monte but communicate with SARC, who I'm fairly sure dont have that many numbers in their ranks. Don't get me wrong I have no axe to grind with SARC, I'm sure that they are acting in the best interests of the people they represent. I'm just very very suspicious of why they are the only ones who can get to meet with the company. I have been to the company head office at Orihuela with other purchase together with our legal team and the company have refuse to talk to us and have told us that they will only communicate with the administrators.

Before anyone agrees to continue to purchase their property at Santa Ana  please, please get independant advice about the contract.

This is of course only my opinion, but it is nice to once again be able to voice it.

Cheers

Dave Butler

Nice post Dave.

Ken.

Hi Ken

How's life in Brid

Linda

Thanks all for the input.  Its actually been nice to post tonight.  Hopefully some more will join in over the coming days and weeks.

I'm going to go to bed now because I have an early start in the morning.  By the way Tony I was not aware that purchasers were getting together and communicating with HdT.

Regards Chrissie

Hi Linda.

Believe or not it has been very sunny and around 15 C today but the days are certainly getting shorter.

Ken

For once and about time its been nice to read the posts on the forum. Let`s all hope this will be the way from now on. That was a great posting Dave, unlike mine you put a lot of thought into yours . I had better learn and have a little more patience...................

Brilliant post Dave  .Keep them coming .

Hi all,  It was great to be able to sit and read through the most recent threads and they were all pleasant and sensible and no bad mouthing each other. Brill thread from Dave, thanks .

Heard from our Solicitor. He said we should hear something in about 2 months regarding the vote.

Kind regards

Gill

Hi All,

It is nice to see so many pleasant exchanges on the forum & it is nice of Dave to share his solicitors update. I was surpised that he is using the term bankruptcy and not the correct term of  administration but perhaps I am being perdantic. I will ping it to my barrister for comment.

I do understand that it is frustrating when information is not getting out via legal representatives. SARC was formed so that we could communicate directly, as unfortunately some of the legal profession had let us down  in the purchasing process.

We have and will share any information that we get for all to consider and/or send to their legal representatives.

On the October report we have put the 'phone number of HdT and you could give that to your solicitor/s and suggest that they call to get an update. We have provided the same details to solicitors upon their request.

I would like to thank all that have sent in questions & we will be completing the list tomorrow & sending it off.

We will get the replies and an further update out to you ASAP and hope to do so by the end of next week.

It was mentioned that a lot of the development are like ghost towns at the moment with so few  people going over to Spain.That was why I chose SADM , as the Spanish need homes to live in and  almost 50% of the purchasers are Spanish. Jumilla needs SADM for the housing and growth of its community plus the additional ammentities and facilities it will bring. I do not think SADM will be a ghost town but more probably a living community.

Best wishes to you all

Tony R 17 18

Hi TonyMal,

Yes I agree that a higher percentage of purchasers at Jumilla were/are Spanish but I feel that the Spanish buyers were/are probally those that would use the development as either a holiday home or for the proposed rental potential that was advertised. The average Spainard requiring permanent accommodation in and around Jumilla are unlikely to have been able to afford the properties being proposed. As far as the non spanish purchasers were concerning I think that most like me only looked and bought at Jumilla because at the time of purchase the price of comparable properties on the coast were beyond our means. since the crisis of course prices are well within our means. hence our purchase of a two bedroomed, two bathroomed town house for less that what we were paying for a Marbella at Jumilla.

An example I can give is one of my local Golf complexes of Campoamor. Almost 65% of the apartments and Villas built still remain unsold after completion 5 years ago.And that was when the property market was a lot more bouyant than now. I feel that if Santa Ana Del Monte goes ahead for it to have a chance of being half succesful it would need the Hotel, the two golf courses, the equestrian centre, the leisure complex, and the shopping, bars , cafes & restaurants to be built as well. Otherwise there would be no incentive for future investers to buy there.

There is currently a complex no more than 5kms from me being marketed as I type, its called Las Colinas de Campoamor, their website is www.aworldapart.es  the golf course is completed, all the infastructure is in place including the leisure facilities, also a beach  club with private facilities less than 10 mins away. This complex will appeal more to someone looking for a holiday place or a property offering rental potential than Jumilla ever could. I believe that Santa Ana Del Monte as a golf resort has definately missed the  boat. The only redeming feature is the 360 degree panoramic mountain views which I'm afraid is not enough.

Of course this is only my opinion and I wish all purchasers to get what they desire from this sorry mess. what really amazes me more than anything is the number of people who still don't really know whats going on, have had no contact with either their solicitors, agents or the company and still believe that everything will be alright if they keep their heads down.

Cheers

Dave

I see that now the spanish purchasers appear to be almost 50%.  Sorry but I had to comment on that Tony.

Anyway reading on I think SJ/HdT are going to learn what 'not biting the hand that feeds them" means.  We are the people who have helped the spanish economy to thrive  for many years.  They should have thought about the way they have treated their customers.  If the spanish need homes to live in then they have to get their act together.  Trust is earned.  It doesn't happen over night.

Getting back to Dave's post it is a very honest posting and I am sure both Dave and Linda have made the best of the mess they were in and I wish them happiness in San Miguel de Salinas.  We must have been looking around Jumilla around the same time back on R4 - it all looked good at that time and I believe even our foundations were laid.

Looking at our situation now personally I am pleased I am not in spain having learned more and more about the topsy turvy way that things are run.  There are lots of empty properties in spain and I think that's the way it will be for a very long time. It seems at all levels of their justuice system they fail to be able to work together for the good of purchasers and the courts will be working until they drop.

I am waiting for my lawyer to get back to me with regards to some questions I have and I will glady post the information as and when I get it. 

Regards Chrissie

Hi Chrissie

Yes your right I only read in my local paper(Spanish) yesterday that Spain currently has more empty properties than the USA. Mind boogling. However if you've got the finances to invest there won't be a better time than now. Property prices will rise eventually, already we are seeing more and more people out looking for properties , even "Atlas" have started viewing trips again and advertising on UK TV I believe.

As far as living here , we love it. The pace of life, the lifestyle even the crazy way things are done here all add to our growing love of the country and people, who we find are mostly honest and open and welcoming to us.

Cheers

Dave

Hi Everyone,

        May I say that it is a pleasure to be online now with decent friendly comments. Any way I agree with Dave that the property market has been hit hard everyware but i have noticed in the last month that prices on resales have started to rise in their asking prices. places at Cabo Roig were around 90K in July and same properties are asking 129K now. Thats got to be promising. I suppose you can still get that bargain if you have access to funds and can move quickly. Good luck Dave & Linda and to us all

regards Brianmags

R4 556

Dear all,

                   As we promised all the questions sent to us by you and members are now available on the SARC website along with the un altered answers from HdT either click on the link on fromt page of this forum or click here www.santaanadelmonte.org

yours Brianmags

R4 556

Dear All

Thanks to Brianmags for posting this interesting question and answer page. Most of the answers given by the "company" we have already heard in one form or another.

However the one answer which made me smile is  and I quote:

6. Will Santa Anna go ahead and have the golf courses hotels and club house as

I  suppose that is exactly the answer that they gave to those that bought on El Pinet. Thats why the phases there have never been completed.  Do I really believe anything this "company" says NO sorry I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they state.

Just my opinion of course.

Dave